Shop Tour #3 - Monster lathe

[lou sansone]

Hello fellow WW's

Here is shop tour #3
It will take me a few more tours untill I have shown all of my shop to you all. Now you might ask why is lou dragging this out? The reason I want to present this information in the way I do is so that as you continue to advance into your hobby or business venture, that some of what I have found out might be of help to you. BTW I am still learning about all of this. I have met a couple of guys that I bounce things off before going forward and this has been a big help.

What I wanted to show you all today is one of my most pleasurable tools to use in my shop.
It is a early 1900's "American Woodworking Machinery #9 patternmakers lathe"

It was completly original when I bought it, and I have since made some modifications that are worth looking at. The Lathe was originally leather belt driven, but with an electric motor and gear box setup. It seems that "Drive All Corp" developed a motor / gear box and foundation kit that could be simply bolted on to lathes such as this if the end user was going to power it by electricity and not use "overhead line shafts". What American and other early machine builders seemed to have done is buy this "electric motor and gear box kit" and bolt it on to their existing set of lathes.

Now you REAL old timers know what a pattern shop is, but I ( only 47 old ) had no idea up until a few years ago. Pattern shops are still around, but they are in the decline because much of our casting and foundry work is going to China. The pattern shop would build wooden patterns of the particular casting which would be used to form the negative image in the sand mixture in which molten metal would be poured. I realize that some of you creekers know much more about this and maybe worked in a foundry, so please forgive my feeble attempt at explaining this.

Well pattern shops had the best type IMHO of woodworking equipment that is suitable for traditional cabinet makers and ww's like us. True furniture factories had some, but much of their equipemnt was meant to just spit out one particular item ( i.e. straight line rip saws are always in furniture factories and never in a pattern shop... that is where you will find the northfield and oliver table saws ).

In order to optimze this lathe for today, I have made a few simple modifications.

1. I removed the "cross ways" on the machine. Patternmakers lathes really look like a metal lathe, with the traditional geared cross ways and tool holders. They can't thread to my knowlege ( could be some that do ).

2. I only use the more traditional tool rest on my lathe

3. The entire head stock was retooled to use modern timing belts and sprockets as opposed to the leather belts. It passes the nickel test!!!

4. The original motor was replaced with a reliance "Super Heavy Duty Inverter grade 3 hp motor", along with a VFD that is really quite nice.


As you can see there are a couple of real nice features on this machine
1. It has very large babbit bearings that really run pretty true. Babbit is a problem when you want to go higher than 3000 rpm, but they are great for a wood lathe and can take unbelievable abuse. They have an oil cup that you give a squirt of oil to once in a while.
2. It weighs about 2500 lbs and has a very wide stance. In fact of all of the pattern lathes I have looked at this is about the widest stance I have found.
3. It can turn 7 feet between centers and can also turn outboard as well ( the lathe is about 11 feet long ) .
4. The 4 speed oil bath gear box has ratio of 1:1 all the way down to 4:1. With the VFD drive that gives me a range of about 3000 rpm to 15 rpm with excellent regulation.

Finally, there is another American comming up for sale in about 15 days. If you are interested in it let me know and I will pm you with the info.

Thanks for looking and please feel free to ask questions about this or other machines as I post them in the up comming weeks

lou

[lou sansone]

couple more photos

[David Wilson]

Lou
Now that is a lathe. How did you move it into your shop? I'll bet you will never ware it out as long as you lube the babbits.

[lou sansone]

Lou
Now that is a lathe. How did you move it into your shop? I'll bet you will never ware it out as long as you lube the babbits.It was a pain because I used a big backhoe and it had all it could do to lift the beast. It might be heaver than I think. Once inside I used pipe rollers to move it around .

[Rob Russell]

Wow - now that's a lathe. It's nice to see old iron like that restored, taken care of and used. A lathe strikes me as a good example of a machine where there really haven't been a lot of changes over the years. Sliding table saws and the like have changed, but what's a good lathe other than lots of mass, a good motor and true bearings?

[John Renzetti]

Hi Lou, Great pictures of that lathe. Amazing that thing is still going strong. Does the coffee mug have any connection to the running of the lathe?
A friend of mine has worked in the pattern shop of GM for the last 25yrs or more. I think they mostly do the mockups for car designs.
take care,
John

[Tom Sontag]

That is just about the coolest piece of old iron I have seen. So, make any pens on it?

[lou sansone]

Hi Lou, Great pictures of that lathe. Amazing that thing is still going strong. Does the coffee mug have any connection to the running of the lathe?
A friend of mine has worked in the pattern shop of GM for the last 25yrs or more. I think they mostly do the mockups for car designs.
take care,
John
hi John and Rob

Well I don't drink beer, so coffee is it! Actually, I put the coffee mug in the photos thinking it would provide some sense of scale.

Rob makes the point that I believe is often overlooked today. Listen, oneway and PM as well as woodfast and other modern high quality lathes have nothing to apoloigize for. they are excellent machines, but they do run into the $5000 range, and if you want one with 7' centers try doubling that. The exception is the no-longer made conover lathe ( sp ) which was a real neat idea. The point I want to stress, is that for some folks, buying old iron makes more sense than buying new. There are exceptions. I think planers are one of them. I had looked at a vintage northfield #2 24" planer. It was not very well engineered and more modern machines were in fact much better. The same can be said for band saws. I had a real old iron spoke one prior to the laguna and it was really quite junky. IMHO if you are going to look for old iron Bandsaws, you really want to look for designes that originated from about the 50's to the 70's. Planers, I would say from the 50's onward, and Wide Belt sanders from the 70's onward.

lou

[lou sansone]

That is just about the coolest piece of old iron I have seen. So, make any pens on it?Hi tom

Believe it or not, you can turn very small items on this, including things the size of a pen. If you look at an earlier post of "making tapered fluted spindles" you will see what I mean.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=17843

lou

[Frank Pellow]

Finally we get to see inside your shop, Lou. Looking past the lathe (not any easy thing to do), the floor and walls are quite in keeping with the outside. Great ambiance! I am looking forward to seeing more.

[Chris Damm]

As a retired patternmaker I have seen some lathes in my time. What you have would be considered a medium sized lathe. My grandfathers shop had one that was coverted from overhead belts to an overhead mounted motor (still ran the flat belts though). On the outboard side you could turn over 8' diameter! If I remember right it had a 30" swing over the bed. I believe the lathe was over 20' long. My father took over the company and sold it when I was about 12. I remember seeing it in operation, the operater stood on a platform and I remember the shavings being about 3' deep.

[lou sansone]

As a retired patternmaker I have seen some lathes in my time. What you have would be considered a medium sized lathe. My grandfathers shop had one that was coverted from overhead belts to an overhead mounted motor (still ran the flat belts though). On the outboard side you could turn over 8' diameter! If I remember right it had a 30" swing over the bed. I believe the lathe was over 20' long. My father took over the company and sold it when I was about 12. I remember seeing it in operation, the operater stood on a platform and I remember the shavings being about 3' deep.
yea...... I know chris, I wish I had room for an oliver #22 as well. The American #9 has a 20" swing inboard and about 80" swing outboard

[John Shuk]

I'd say it is pretty obvious that Lou does NOT mess around! I'm waiting with baited breath for the next installment. I love the old iron and you've done a good job with it.

[Jim Becker]

Impressive machine, Lou. And your shop really looks like a comfortable environment to work in...it has a lot of pinaché!!

[lou sansone]

Impressive machine, Lou. And your shop really looks like a comfortable environment to work in...it has a lot of pinaché!!
Jim

thanks for the complement. Your right the shop is very comfortable to work in. Until I found the Creek I had not thought of showing any of my work or my shop. There really seems to be a great set of ww's here that don't snipe at each other and are in it for the fun and learing how to do things. It is because of that welcoming atmosphere that I have decided to let others see my place. You all should be commended for keeping a tight ship!

As I have said in earlier posts, I wanted to let others see how I tried to take what I had learned from reading and watching others and turn it into reality. I continue to find ways of improving my shop so that it is the most comfortable place to work. One thing that I hope folks notice is the combination of natural light and color balanced light, and lots of it. I have seen pictures of your shop and I believe that you also follow this philosophy. For those who are basement dwellers there are still things that one can do to make it more confortable.

lou

[Mark Singer]

Lou,
Wonderful pictures of a great shop.....oh the lathe....it's got me spinning ! Wow that is really a lathe! I love it all. It is great to see someone who knows what that like ...goes for it!!

[David Fried]

As coffe cup holders go, that's a really sweet one! Can't wait to see the shop coffee maker! :D

[David Fried]

As coffe cup holders go, that's a really sweet one! Can't wait to see the shop's three phase coffee pot! :D

[Pete Harbin]

So that's what an old mini lathe for turning pens looks like :D

Beautiful machine AND shop!

Pete

[James Mahoney]

Lou what a great peace of Machinery,this Big old boy looks alive and waiting for Action. I admire your Shop, makes me just what to go dancing on your shinny floors.:rolleyes: My 1st lathe was a Craftmen Metal lathe that an old friend gave me,he use it to turn wood, and so did I. Then he gave me a Reed/ Prentice 16" W/Taper I just fell in love with it,but in the begining it didnt matter what I had so long I could turn wood. Just a few days ago I bought a mini Jet lathe from another friend for $150. My 1st wood lathe, I'm so excited. But I have to get use to the little guy thats for sure. Here's some pictures of the lathes and my friend Jimpe Tamura with his oid Lathe.:D Aloha No!

[Alan Turner]

Great lathe, Lou. I too like old iron, and have a 12" Am. WW Mach. jointer, which someone painted a hideous green, with even more hideous orange trim. Did you repait yours? Do you know if you have the original color? If so, could you share details? Do you have the outboard tool rest thingie? ( You can see I am not much of a turner, notwithstanding the name.)

Also, I see hte snow, and the "storm" windows. Is that plastic which you have screwed to the frames? If so, what kind? We have a new industrial bulding which we will tighten up over the summer, and this storm window arrangement seems a good one.

Great shop, of course.

[Kelly C. Hanna]

I need one of those to turn front porch posts!!!! Man that's a big lathe!!

I love all the wood and the colored walls in your shop....I hope one day to have mine look that good!!

[lou sansone]

Great lathe, Lou. I too like old iron, and have a 12" Am. WW Mach. jointer, which someone painted a hideous green, with even more hideous orange trim. Did you repait yours? Do you know if you have the original color? If so, could you share details? Do you have the outboard tool rest thingie? ( You can see I am not much of a turner, notwithstanding the name.)

Also, I see hte snow, and the "storm" windows. Is that plastic which you have screwed to the frames? If so, what kind? We have a new industrial bulding which we will tighten up over the summer, and this storm window arrangement seems a good one.

Great shop, of course.
hi allen
good spot on the windows. I use lexan as the covering. It is pretty bullet proof and not that expensive. I put them on this year and they more than paid for themselves with the savings in oil from the furnace ( 200 gallons less ).

My american #9 was originally crappy brown and then green and now more of an oliver blue, which I like.

I do have an outboard tool rest, but not an american one, just one that I picked up along the way. I need to make a new outboard faceplate for the lathe. The one I use now is sort of junkey.

[John Lucas]

Can it do pens?

[Brian Weick]

I am Considering purchasing this lathe and it will require some considerable expense in retrofitting this monster to the newer technology in drive via VFD and a 3hp GE inverter duty motor all of which are going to run close to $1000 to accomplish this. He wants $700 for the lathe
Specs:
11' bed
24" swing
8' C-C
(currently) 220 single PH HP- unknown
(currently) belt driven 3 speed transmission also stepped pulley system.
Pattern carriage -work well
5' Bed turning base with carriage also- bed shape-was in the barn and very rust on the ways?
the lathe itself seems to be in good shape but it needs a lot of work as far as cosmetics- want to strip it and new paint-etc,etc.I have pictures and the attached manufacturers plate if any of you would be interested. I am really stumped on this one and don't know what direction to take- any help would be appreciated.
Thank you
Brian

[Harry Goodwin]

Lou your beautiful lathe brings back memories. The small pattern shop I worked in didn't have any such trophies but the one in Dobbins Vocational in Philadelphia was similar. I used it several times for big stuff inboard and outboard while a student. The one I used had a rolling tool rest like a machine shop lathe but it held a bit that was shaped like a question mark sharpened on the inside and held in tool rest on outside. It was used to turn things parallel before finish turning. Have fun with your treasure. Harry

[lou sansone]

brian and harry

this is a patten makers lathe that I took off the carrage and have it stored in a safe place. for my style of turning I prefered to have the ways clear and just move the tool rest around myself.

Brian the lathe you are looking at sound pretty good. originally all of these machines were overhead flat belt driven and one by one were converted to self contained electric motors. I have done exaxtly what you are planning.. get rid of the flat belts but keep the transmission, go VFD and smile

lou

[Chris Barton]

Hey Lou,

What a great lathe and great story as well. Thanks for posting so many pictures, it really makes one appreciate this unique machine even more!

[John Scarpa]

WOW! Now that's a lathe. And sitting in a great shop i might add! can't wait to see what comes off of that! :)

[Brian Weick]

Update: Oliver 20C lathe-year, approximately 1909 serial # 890
I never got back to the site and updated the answer to my question. I did it and bit the bullet- she has been in my shop for over a year now. she can do 20" over the carriage and 24" over the bed up to 106" in length and 84" on the outboard end. pivot headstock and offset turning along with the tail stock. weight 4,480lbs - getting it into my shop-"priceless" and it actually was not that bad, I had 2 , 6000 lb floor jacks and she moved very nice , getting out of RIT was a lot of maneuvering however. I have converted the 4 step flat belt to an s&K dbl v belt assembly - very smooth! Also updated the electronics-3hp induction motor, yawsaka 10hp vfd digital readout with all the bells and whistles- reverse, slow start up and infinite speed control.0-2500rpms.
the headstock is being removed, possibly this week - it is being converted from Babbitt bearings (they have to go- to sloppy(grease) and to much maintenance- they work fine, but to much maintenance and mess as i said before) going with a sealed IDC ball bearing setup. The shaft will be milled down from 2-1/4" down to 2.165 on the entire 30" shaft. This will not affect the 1-7/8" inboard threads or the 2-1/4" outboard threads for plate attachments as they will stop the machining up to the outboard threads. This will keep the overall appearance of the headstock and have a very high and reliable tolerance with shaft movement and functionality. I was contemplating having the ears on the headstock cnc'ed down to accept a flat plate and pillow blocks but changes the whole look of the 1909 lathe- I have seen it done on an American lathe on owwm - OK - but not original appearance.
It has a plate attachment for the carriage for a 3-1/4hp porter cable router to do fluted columns or any other design desired. An indexing plate will be permanently fixed to the shaft and can be adjusted in 1 degree increments/w locking on the index plate instead of pin whole- I wanted an infinite capability- not 5 degree steps. The carriage has interchangeable carving tools to accommodate any cutting that is desired.
currently in the process of having a linkage between the carriage and the headstock to accommodate spiral flutes in 1' increments depending on the length of a wood columns. When this final step is done it is being resurfaced and repainted in a battleship Grey. It is a pleasure to do work on this lathe - very high end results ~which is what I was after.

[lou sansone]

nice oliver. i have looked at these before. olivers were nice because they had a motor set under the head stock, which really reduces the vibration. ball bearings will be nice as well.. You need to allow for some adjustment to keep things lined up. I like the 20c's rather then the 25 because it can have the motor swapped out like you did. I also converted my flat belt to a timing belt setup with a 3 hp vfd and 4 speed gear box. Are you planning on also adding a gear box ? I think you will find it useful and give you a better usable range of speeds.

lou

[Brian Weick]

Took the babbitts out today, cleaned up the headstock & spindle- have to take it to the machinist tomorrow- with the tail stock~ talk about some heavy equipment-----whew~! Going with sleeve roller bearings- as far as the adjustment- not sure what you mean- he is aligning it -exactly to the tail stock live point- not sure what you mean- can you clarify that-thank you.
Regards,
Brian:rolleyes:

[Brian Weick]

I already have one- same as you have Lou- only it's a little whirly in the 3-1 and 4-1 ratio- any suggestions?
Regards,
Brian

[lou sansone]

the sleeve roller bearings will have to be dead nuts bored in the place where the babbit bearings went. Similar to line boring a cam shaft or crank shaft. as long as he is doing that type of boring for them, fine. Many opt for the pillow block method that uses ball bearings that can be aligned horizontal, vertically and angularly. Most roller bearings do not allow for angular alignment if needed ( I have use some that did, but they were very expensive ). The drive all box will just be noisey in those gears to some degree. I like your direct coupling setup BTW .... good idea

best wishes
lou

[Steven Wilson]

Lou, do you have the crossways? Could you post a picture. I'm sort of looking at doing some precision turning on my Oneway 2436 and really don't want to buy a metal lathe. Those crossways might be just the ticket.

[lou sansone]

I do have the crossways, but took them off. I can take a photo of them, but these patternmakers lathes have a very similar crossways to a metal lathe. I am not sure what the photo will give you though. the oneway is not a patternmakers lathe and does not have the option for a crossway as far as I know. Unless you are doing columns or big patterns on the face plate, I don't know why you would want crossways. what were you planning on doing ?
lou

[Brian Weick]

Lou,
How come you didn't keep the crossways and the carriage on you're American Lathe? - You could have fabricated a router/trimmer-plate to mount on the carriage and flutted them without a jig-
I know some woodworkers with these large lathes don't like to keep them on because they say they get in the way. However- there is a holder that attaches to the carriage for a single tool rest that moves with the carriage-where ever you want it to go. - do you still have the carriage?
Regards,
Brian

[Brian Weick]

Hey Lou,
off to the machinist today- I'll have pics to bring back today- getting a shot of the milling machine that will be doing the work, along with the lathe resizing the spindle ~hopefully?
Fredric's machinery is doing the work- I chose him because he came highly recommended. the shop is generational and the owner came by to see the lathe at my shop last week. He told me that's all his father used to work on was the older machinery of the past and was very familiar with this type of lathe- first of all he was surprised I had one to begin with. reason I am going with these bearings Lou is I wanted to keep the look of the oliver headstock without compromising the precision. once it is done- I won't have to worry about adjusting anything-hopefully(knock on wood-LOL) I have not seen this done-Anywhere-on any older Oliver lathes with Babbitt bearing, maybe I haven't searched the WWW enough ~ which is a little nerve racking because it would have made me feel a little more comfortable. He is very confident that he can do the job precisely. Well see?
I'll keep this updated- I love this sight- you guys are all "good people" and it is appreciated.
Regards
Brian:rolleyes:

[lou sansone]

I agree with you on the roller bearing setup as opposed to the chop off the top and stick on some ugly looking pillow blocks. I think it is a good idea. All I am saying is that the roller bearings have to be located perfectly in each of the old babbit bearing retainers. I think once that is done, you will have a great looking machine.
IRT the crossway, I took it off because it did get in the way for my liking. I might put it back on, but not right now..

lou

[Brian Weick]

UPDATE: Just got back from Fredrick's Machining ,Allen is going to use the horizontal milling machine (2nd picture) or the vertically milling machine (3rd picture)to bore out the Babbitt wells to 3.167". The shaft is being machined down to 1.9674" ,there is just under 2" total being machined off the spindle is roughly 5/32" (1st picture).The 4 SKF bearings are going in ,2 on each end and 2 sealed thrust bearings / locking sleeve's for the shaft and an index plate built write into the spindle with a collar (so I don't have to take it off and put it back on every time I want to use it) it will be in 1 degree increments- locking assembly on the plate mounted to the headstock - not a pin assembly- to much can go wrong with that as far as movement- I don't want that spindle to move at all. Also- there is a 220vlt pressure switch going in so when the locking lever is locked it automatically shuts off the power to the VFD.
I will have it back in 2 weeks or so,(4th picture) in the mean time the bed/carriage are being stripped today and ready for the final paint job. may go with a hunter green, not to sure about the battleship Grey? I'll be putting more threads on the lathe as they develop - you all have a great weekend
Happy Turning:)
Regards,
Brian

[J.R. Rutter]

Wow Lou, your floor is pretty clean considering the lathe! That is a sweet setup!

[Roy Wall]

Good news Brian!!

Keep us posted with a new thread.....looks terrific!

[lou sansone]

hi brian
I agree with rob... lets get a new thread going on your machine. The american is nice, but the oliver 20 is the cat's meow. I do like the way the shop did the bearings and also the fact that you put the thrust bearings in. good going

lou

[Brian Weick]

I will do that Lou ~ have some things to take of this weekend but I will be putting it together Sunday I think. I'll need a little help with that- posting a new thread. little side note Lou about you're Lathe Lou,
You're beautifully American Wood Workers Machine Co.lathe sits write along with any professional pattern makers lathe of the time up to and including the modern time's of today. "American Machinery Company" was founded back in 1890 by Joesph.W Oliver . There is a lathe on WWW.OWWM (http://www.OWWM) - First picture under lathe category says"The Oliver" and directly underneath that stamped The American Machinery Company" this lathe stamping with the "oliver" name tag was the predecessor to "The Oliver" Stamp on the legs (with some models) or just the word "Oliver" stamped on the headstock & tail stock,depending on the year and make and it was made under th impression that "Oliver" was the brand and "American Machinery" made the lathe by some and then thought the opposite was true, not to mention being confused with " American Wood working Machinery Co.- That was when In 1903 Oliver decided to get away without the label American Machinery" as to not be confused with their competitor~ The "American wood working machine co." -You're lathe #9. These were two of the fearcesed competitors of that era- very high quality machinery was being produced from both companies ,as far as woodworking machinery was concerned. They both had some blunders as all companies produce lemons from time to time. Something you have to ask yourself as a Wood Turner ~ one question "How many of us have the chance to not just use, but own a lathe that can turn 8' x 24" product on their lathe without it bouncing all over the floor,-with a sliding carriage to perform a perfect circular shape, perfect from end to end-or maybe an offset turning~ and then again the 82" outboard cherry ornament ~there's not that many, not that many indeed.
I consider myself and anyone else that has these cast iron marvels of the past , refurbished ~ and in excellent operating condition ,to be a very fortunate individual, Fortunate ~ only up until the next time is has to be moved to another location-LOL that's just my opinion old, large,lathes and what I am producing as a craftsman, and it is my opinion alone Lou ~ . I am in no way putting down other modern lathe manufacturers of today, there just not made like the way they used to be made way back when. One Way's, Nova,s and the like, very well made lathes in my opinion,Especially the One Way-very nice machine~ Smooth ,well balanced, nice location for the VFD on the swing arm,~ I wish I had that, and I may do that with a separate key pad? The solid heavy steel construction tube design of the One Way is very solid, along with the leg section, and I like what their capable of, but how do I fit a 8' x 24" diameter staved column on there??????hmmmmmmmmm. Not that it couldn't be done~ to me- Very professional results come from what you used to make it - this is what I do for a living- It is very time consuming when you're trying to make a round column without a carriage, the details are done by hand, but that carriage is what really intrigued me about pattern lathes- they have so many great uses, and they make the job go so smooth ~ That is why I bought my Oliver. That's the direction of my career as a craftsmen, there is no getting by without the machine to do the job write ,efficiently and ,,,,,professionally.
Rather interesting on how I came to buy the Oliver 20C .
Before I bought it I was going to buy an "American" pattern makers lathe -Like your's only larger ~I think, it was out in this mans farm in Franklinville ,NY, found it under Lathes-EBAY auction, the lathe never sold so I called the man (he left the # on the ebay add)I asked if I could come down to see the lathe - he said "Sure" .So I drove down there to see for myself what condition it was in. The Lathe was in his 4 car garage being used as a sort of ,~walk back in time ,type of , ~ early "American wood Working machinery Company gallery" appearance to it. Anyways, There was this massive Pattern Lathe, with all these belts jutting up to the ceiling,A huge 36" planner,A 15" jointer, 16" table saw - all of which had the "American " name plate on them. All Babbitt bearing to give you some idea of the age~ They were all powered off this massive 1 pulley system,(all of which was idle and separate from the Lathe)~ he had rigged this in the garage , took up 3 car bays. All of the machinery could run at one time on this massive overhead belt system. It honestly looked like something from Frankensteins castle~no joke. It had this massive handle that you used to move up the step pulley on the lathe just above the headstock and a massive chain going to the middle linkage down to this prehistoric motor that sparked like crazy when he turned it on ,that motor was absolutely huge, must have been 20" diameter, just huge, so ~ he said it always does that- don't worry ~ Ive named her "Sparky"~ scared the crap out of me when he ran it, I was actually slightly blinded by the flash, I'm thinking~ Yea, don't worry until it lights my shop up like a torch. :eek:
He was a very nice man, don't get me wrong, just a little touched in the head, but a real nice guy. It had a 12' long bed, ,,,,turning length capability - 8' and a little more, a 24"swing over the bed/20 over the carriage (carriage included) and all the original tooling that came with the lathe, not to mention a side outboard carriage exactly like the one on the main bed, only it is 4' bed length~ stubby , mounted on a separate stand that bolted to the floor, it was exactly like a smaller version of the large bed used to pattern outboard turnings- However, that whole out board setup wasn't with the lathe however, it was kept out in the barn ~ 200 yards away,,so when we got over there ,he opened the doors ,,and there it was, write in the corner, ,,,,,,,,,right above the whole in the roof as I looked up while rain is falling on me, :( ~it was raining that day, I'm thinking- ,,,,,what a shame,seriously. If they had just moved it down ,,just another 10' it wouldn't have been in the condition that I saw it in. It was completely covered in rust, everything was frozen to the bed and I wasn't quite sure if it could be salvaged. It was just one massive piece of rusty machinery and way to much work ,and the cost involved for me to update the lathe, "pricey" -not "priceless" . The Babbitts either needed to be redone or refabed to accept modern bearings of today, there was a little, a small bit of play in them, I knew the Babbitt housing/bearings had to be addressed. Everything needed to be sandblasted-the lathe itself had surface rust- not to bad but it had to be cleaned, basically everything (covering the important machined parts so they wouldn't get damaged) if I was to go the sandblast method and That means dragging it over to a shop and back. The weight , everything all together-approximately 5,680lbs. A new motor to replace- "Sparky" as the owner stated by name ~he would have to go, either that or invest in a good pair of welders goggles ~ and a few fire extinguishers to go along for the ride :D that beast of a motor was 220single phase 3 hp motor that would have to be changed up to a 5hp 3 phase induction motor. I would have had to buy a VFD of coarse,10hp ,and send the entire lathe out to have a machinist fabricate some type of Motor housing assembly/belt drive system and milling/or babbitts on the headstock, (like what you have ~ top drive setup) plus a "drive all unit"- hard to find and very pricey- Can't do without it when doing large turnings- you need the torque in the spindle shaft as I believe. A good "Drive ALL",one that hasn't been abused ,can go for 4- $500.00, maybe less- if you are at the write place at the write time and it is in as good of condition ,as stated by the owner, maybe $200.00. The tappers on the both ends needed to be resurfaced and after all of that expensive work would have to be a new paint job.
By the time all was said and done it was going to be between $6,500 and $7,500 as an business investment, thats If it was going to be brought back to life and back to the professional piece of woodworking machinery it once was. I really couldn't justify giving him what he was asking for $1500.00 , considering the condition of the Lathe, he could get more from the scrap yard than what I was willing to pay, , so I kindly thanked him , told him I had to do some investigating on the cost to refurbish the lathe and went on my way. I called back after finding out the cost and told him I was going to pass and said I am sure someone will take the lathe - because it was a nice project for someone that wanted to put that kind of time and money into it~ It was a great piece of machinery, just severely neglected unfortunately, otherwise you would have seen pictures of an American lathe instead of what you see today. But I have to tell you it is sitting in someones shop now , I called him back a couple of weeks later to find out if it had a home and it has, he got $1000.00 from some man that came from Pennsylvania to pick it up. Hopefully the knew owner is going to revive her~ The lathe was very,very, early - 1901 I believe (?) Anyways, An "American Woodworkers Machinery co" lathe made in the time of the past is something I wouldn't pass up -and I didn't but, unfortunately- that one was going to give me Grey hairs and put me behind the eight ball -all the way around.
Well, I'll never forget that lathe- not to mention , that great motor- "sparky" you should have seen the arcs on those winding contacts~ 4th of July ~ LOL. The very next day, in the morning- I got back on Ebay~Woodworking, in hopes that something came up- there she was Mrs.20C From RIT. I placed my bid - 5days later and 4 seconds to go - I was going on a road trip to Rochester to pick up my winning prize- I still can't believe it. It's the lathe I dreamed of- looking at that one listed on Xfactory- it has been there a while-a 20C started at $15,000, then down to $12,500, now it's down to $10,000- check it out, under lathes. That was a little more than I wanted to spend. I better stop- I am writing a book here-LOL
Anyhow,
How do you make a new post- I tried to find that since I have been back on here? There isn't a button "post a thread" or am I missing something?
You have a great weekend- all of you :)
Happy turning,
Brian

[lou sansone]

great story .... I do agree the the old patternmakes lathes can't be beat. The problem is that there are not very many to go around and so folks do have to buy the oneways. I love the american #9, but the oliver 20c is a much better machine, no question about it. maybe someday I will fine one.

to post a new post, all you have to do is just go to the main section under general woodworking and power tools and start a new thead


lou

[Brian Weick]

You have a great weekend Lou- it's starting to warm up here in NY from a very bitter winter- finally :rolleyes:
Happy turning :)
Regaurds
Brian

[joe aiello]

I have some older lathes but no pictures;I don't know how to do it yet, but I am working on it. I have working the following: 1- FAY & SCOTT pattern makers 10' tip to tip controlled by 2hp dc motor with a VD. 2- HALL & BROWN direct drive 1hp with variable speed at the switch. 3- unknown name(could not find name) that is 14' long ; had a 1hp on it for awhile. 4- plus a few more misc.

[Brian Weick]

Hi Joe,
Heres how you get those pictures on here- you can copy and paste if that's to you're liking , as I have done here or you can do as an attachment as most people do on here.
Down below is the dialog box you need just pull down a little farther on your arrow and the "Additional Options" section will appear. When you are posting a thread there is a section below ,as iI stated, called "Additional options" and in that section there is an option called "Manage attachments" Click that- It will come up with a dialog box like this , click "browse" button in the "upload file from your computer",or if you're going to get it from the WWW , type in the name of the URL and click "upload". Most people upload there attachments (pictures, text files) from their computer. If you're going to be doing it from you're computer , locate the file you want to attach,ie, picture; select the file and then hit the "open " button in the "choose file" dialog box that came up when you selected the file you wanted, after you do that you will see it listed back in the "Additional options" section next to the browse button in this dialog box below . It should show up if you go back to "Manage attachments" and you should see it listed there. Keep note there are limitations for each file based on the type (ext- example-jpeg limit is 107.8kb ,,,,,ZIP 1.91 mb just make sure they are not larger than the file size allotment or it will not upload. I hope this helped, it's not hard, just takes getting used to like anything in life that's new. Look forward to seeing you're pictures:D
Happy turning:rolleyes:
Regards,
Brian
Additonal options dialog box exaple below


Additional Options





Attach Files
Valid file extensions: bmp cdr doc dwg dxf gif jpe jpeg jpg pdf png psd skp txt wmf xls zip
Manage Attachments (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/newattachment.php?t=18192&poststarttime=1173744676&posthash=7a96ec23e3d291cadb84c0484efb153e)

[Brian Weick]

Joe,
Kaptain J . just acquired an older oliver lathe, maybe you have some parts that you are willing to "part with"-lol for him. He is trying to restore this old Oliver and could use some help.
Thanks
Brian