Cherry burl goblet

[Ted Evans]

It has been a while since I have posted any pictures so will see if I can remember how. The cup, lid and foot is Cherry burl, the stem and finial is Hickory dyed black with leather dye. Overall height is 9", width is 4". Finish is two coats of pre-cat lacquer. I am not blessed with an artistic eye so form and balance is a real challenge for me. The transition from the stem to the cup is not one that I would use again. Come to think of it, I do not know why I used it this time. All comments and suggestions are appreciated.

[Kevin Lucas]

one word WOW!

[Dennis Ford]

Nice work. I like it!

[Kaptan J.W. Meek]

it is really nice.. fantastic wood.. the goblet and stem, finials are just gorgeous.. I "might" say the top of the lid, APPEARS, to be stepped? I would think it needed to be more "rounded" like a ball sitting in the goblet.. but that's just me.. It really is a fantastic piece..

[Wally Dickerman]

I like it very much but I'll make a couple of suggestions. I think that the finial height is too short. It appears to be about 1/3rd the height of the pedestal...I'd like it better if it was 2/3rd the height....I also think that the bottom of the pedestal stem is a bit heavy where it attaches to the base.

[Ted Evans]

it is really nice.. fantastic wood.. the goblet and stem, finials are just gorgeous.. I "might" say the top of the lid, APPEARS, to be stepped? I would think it needed to be more "rounded" like a ball sitting in the goblet.. but that's just me.. It really is a fantastic piece..

Thanks for the comments Kaptan. The "step" in the lid is an optical illusion as it is not at all stepped.

[Ted Evans]

I like it very much but I'll make a couple of suggestions. I think that the finial height is too short. It appears to be about 1/3rd the height of the pedestal...I'd like it better if it was 2/3rd the height....I also think that the bottom of the pedestal stem is a bit heavy where it attaches to the base.

Wally, thanks a million for the suggestions. The things that you point out is exactly what I have so much trouble with. Would you make the bottom of the pedestal stem smaller or, the base slightly larger?

[Wally Dickerman]

Wally, thanks a million for the suggestions. The things that you point out is exactly what I have so much trouble with. Would you make the bottom of the pedestal stem smaller or, the base slightly larger?

I think that the base is fine as it is. Taking some of the bulk out of the bottom of the stem would be my suggestion.

Getting pedestals and especially finials just right is a touchy thing. I like to use the rule of thirds most of the time. Seems to give good balance.

[John Keeton]

Ted, looks like you did some nice work on this piece. It is really difficult to grasp the actual proportions and form given the downward angle of the pics. In order to offer much comment, one would need to see more of a straight on shot. Your pics seem to over emphasize the cup, and make it appear much larger than it probably is, and does not permit a view of the actual form of the cup.

You seem genuinely interested in suggestions (not everyone is receptive!), so I will offer my thoughts, for whatever they may be worth. Along with what Wally stated about the proportionate relationship between the pedestal and finial, and the need for less mass in the lower portion of the pedestal, I would offer these suggestions:

The pedestal base appears to be an ogee curve, but it seems to be the only ogee in the piece. I would prefer to use that curve elsewhere in the piece to create continuity and flow.

The elements of the pedestal and finial should create upward movement by diminishing in size, except, of course, where the pedestal must flare back out for the transition with the cup. I have attached a pic that is seen often in finial discussion and it has some very good information.

224081
In the pic, the dotted lines indicate the progression of the elements, but rather than a triangle, I would prefer to think of it as a fair curve that would touch all of the elements as it sweeps off the base, or lid, depending on whether one is talking about the pedestal or the finial. The principles are the same.

I like that you have used similar elements in the finial and pedestal, but the base/transition you have used seems to cause the finial and pedestal to stand alone and not be homogenous elements of the overall piece. I would suggest using a base that would either pick up on the curvature of the lid/base, or create a transition point that causes the eye to flow upward - i.e., "lift". What you have used is somewhat abrupt and causes a break in the flow.

That same concept applies to the transition between the top of the pedestal and the bottom of the cup. The curve on the pedestal and the bottom of the cup should be consistent. Usually, this is somewhat easier to accomplish if the bottom of the cup is a little more rounded. What you have appears (hard to tell from the angle) a bit more "pointed" than would provide a gentle transition. That brings back up the idea of repetition of the ogee. Making the cup more of an ogee might assist you in that regard, though a "tulip" shape will work to accomplish the same thing. It is possible to use a slender cup form, and still have a nice transition, but it is a greater challenge.

If you use an ogee on the cup, in most instances, the lid should also use an ogee curve - again, for continuity and to create an homogenous appearance.

These comments reflect just my personal taste, and certainly are not intended to do anything other than offer my opinions. Others may have different ideas, and better ideas! Please don't take these as anything other than that!

You have done a nice job with this one. You have used good tool control, and the choice of wood is very nice. It doesn't get much better than cherry burl and black!

[Ted Evans]

Ted, looks like you did some nice work on this piece. It is really difficult to grasp the actual proportions and form given the downward angle of the pics. In order to offer much comment, one would need to see more of a straight on shot. Your pics seem to over emphasize the cup, and make it appear much larger than it probably is, and does not permit a view of the actual form of the cup.

You seem genuinely interested in suggestions (not everyone is receptive!), so I will offer my thoughts, for whatever they may be worth. Along with what Wally stated about the proportionate relationship between the pedestal and finial, and the need for less mass in the lower portion of the pedestal, I would offer these suggestions:

The pedestal base appears to be an ogee curve, but it seems to be the only ogee in the piece. I would prefer to use that curve elsewhere in the piece to create continuity and flow.

The elements of the pedestal and finial should create upward movement by diminishing in size, except, of course, where the pedestal must flare back out for the transition with the cup. I have attached a pic that is seen often in finial discussion and it has some very good information.

224081
In the pic, the dotted lines indicate the progression of the elements, but rather than a triangle, I would prefer to think of it as a fair curve that would touch all of the elements as it sweeps off the base, or lid, depending on whether one is talking about the pedestal or the finial. The principles are the same.

I like that you have used similar elements in the finial and pedestal, but the base/transition you have used seems to cause the finial and pedestal to stand alone and not be homogenous elements of the overall piece. I would suggest using a base that would either pick up on the curvature of the lid/base, or create a transition point that causes the eye to flow upward - i.e., "lift". What you have used is somewhat abrupt and causes a break in the flow.

That same concept applies to the transition between the top of the pedestal and the bottom of the cup. The curve on the pedestal and the bottom of the cup should be consistent. Usually, this is somewhat easier to accomplish if the bottom of the cup is a little more rounded. What you have appears (hard to tell from the angle) a bit more "pointed" than would provide a gentle transition. That brings back up the idea of repetition of the ogee. Making the cup more of an ogee might assist you in that regard, though a "tulip" shape will work to accomplish the same thing. It is possible to use a slender cup form, and still have a nice transition, but it is a greater challenge.

If you use an ogee on the cup, in most instances, the lid should also use an ogee curve - again, for continuity and to create an homogenous appearance.

These comments reflect just my personal taste, and certainly are not intended to do anything other than offer my opinions. Others may have different ideas, and better ideas! Please don't take these as anything other than that!

You have done a nice job with this one. You have used good tool control, and the choice of wood is very nice. It doesn't get much better than cherry burl and black!

John, many thanks for your comments/suggestions and I really appreciate the picture and illustration. Of course, the kind words from you and the others that commented are appreciated. With that being said, I really like to see how others would approach the task as you and Wally have done. I have printed the picture that you provided and will tape it to the wall behind the lathe for future reference along with Wally's suggestions.

Not sure if I have enough years left but would like to become more educated in shapes, forms, proportions, balance etc regarding my turnings. I need to do more planning in the design of a piece than just making wood chips fly.

Again, thanks a million for taking the time to offer your critique and suggestions, they are always welcome.

[Steve Schlumpf]

Ted - I understand and agree with both Wally and John's suggestions for the next time but wanted to jump in here and say that you did a really nice job on all the elements! I also like your finish and the combination of the natural colors of the Cherry burl coupled with the black pedestal and finial! Everything works well together!

On your photos... I agree with John in that we would all get a better sense of the form if some of the photos were more of a profile shot - such that the eye just peaks over the rim of the cup. A perspective view is a great way to see how everything works together but often distorts the curves of the piece.

Looking forward to seeing your next turning!