Passage Door Thickness

[Jim Foster]

I might make several passage doors for my home. Q-Sawn White Oak, 30" wide and less. If I use traditional mortise & tenon joints, can I have the rails & stiles at 1" thick, and end up with a good passage door.

If 1" is considered too thin, what's a suggested minimum thickness?

Seems like I've seen antique homes or museum homes with pretty thin doors that were hundreds of years old.

[Rick Gooden]

Jim,

I work around a number of historic homes and have encountered quite a few interior doors @ 1 1/8" that are still in good shape.

[Stew Hagerty]

Modern wooden raised panel doors are typically 1 1/4" to 1 1/2" thick. From what I remember in older homes, I've seen both thin doors and thick & heavy ones. I think it depends on the period you are aiming at as well as the socio-economic level of your choice (more money meant thicker, heavier, and more ornate). I would suggest you use your personal preference.

[Sam Murdoch]

Select your hardware before you decide on the thickness. Typically for 1-1/8" or thinner you will be limited in your butt hinge selection, unless you shop around. A 30" wide 1" thick door is pretty light, even wood screen doors are in the 1-1/8" range.
But as has been said - your call.

[Lex Boegen]

I just made a screen door for my porch at 1-3/8" thick, because I don't like the feel of 1-inch doors. It's a personal thing, but they feel too flimsy to me, plus I wanted to use standard hinges and locksets. I used Freud's rail & stile bit set that can do extended tenons, and chopped mortises in the stiles. It's plenty strong, and with today's better glues, I'm sure that a thinner door would be just as strong with M&T joinery.

[Tom Ewell]

"Standard" interior doors are 1 3/8", specialty doors like bifolds are typically less, approaching 5/4.
Typical hardware is based on these standards but like anything, variance can be had.
Like the man said, check out hardware options and go from there.
Well constructed with quality material should be OK with 5/4, triple hinge will also help keep things in line.

[Peter Quinn]

1 3/8" is typical standard passage door thickness today. If done using solid stock often 8/4 is needed at least for stiles, its really tough to flatten 6/4 over 80 inches and wind up at 1 3/8". I've seen some pretty thin passage doors on older homes too, never measured them but they look to be around 1 1/8" plus or minus, and most were hanging on strap hinges so door thickness is not an issue. I guess I'm wondering why you want to make thin doors? Historical restoration? Matching other work? Trying to save materials?


One consideration with thin doors is that old growth wood grew slowly and was more stable, it was typically slowly air dried and relaxed for as much as a decade. Today new growth lumber reaches maturity faster and is quick dried in kilns, which makes it consistent but perhaps less stable. So while a 200 year old door made with old growth air dried wood may remain stable, a door made similarly today may not. My experience with thin doors has been mixed, such as for large cabinet doors in the 1 1/16" thick range. For the marginal amount of additional cost incurred I'd use the thicker stock and make a thicker door if possible. Thicker doors on average stay straighter than thinner ones IME.

[Jim Foster]

Thanks for the replies. If I look at the stiffness of the average pine door at 1.375" thick and convert to a white oak stiffness; a door 1.125" thick is just as stiff, if everything else can be considered equal. So, not quite an inch thick, but my thoughts were to use material I have on hand and might be more economical in the long run. I think, I'll look at 6/4 material to start with. I agree that hardware may be a major glitch also

[Jamie Buxton]

Modern solid lumber doors are often built with what is called "stave construction". The rails and stiles are indeed solid lumber, but the core is some secondary wood. Usually the face stock is 1/4" thick or so. The secondary wood can be a lower grade of the face stock, or can be something else. The cores can be made from strips of wood, which is why this method is called stave construction. The edges are glued on to the core first, so the seams aren't visible when the door is closed. The door joinery is exactly the same as if the rails and stiles were not glue-ups.

[Jeff Duncan]

Peter hit the nail on the head, old growth wood is a different animal than what we have available today. I wouldn't even attempt such a thin door in hopes it would stay flat....but that's just me. Add the hardware situation for both hinges and lock sets and I think your making you life more difficult than it has to be.

If you want to use stock you have on hand you can make up the stiles and rails with laminations of oak and then use a thin solid skin to wrap the edges. This will allow you to build to 1-3/8", (which I still find kinda thin myself), or even better 1-3/4" which IMO, has a nice look and feel to it.

good luck,
JeffD

[joe milana]

Peter hit the nail on the head, old growth wood is a different animal than what we have available today. I wouldn't even attempt such a thin door in hopes it would stay flat....but that's just me. Add the hardware situation for both hinges and lock sets and I think your making you life more difficult than it has to be.

If you want to use stock you have on hand you can make up the stiles and rails with laminations of oak and then use a thin solid skin to wrap the edges. This will allow you to build to 1-3/8", (which I still find kinda thin myself), or even better 1-3/4" which IMO, has a nice look and feel to it.

good luck,
JeffD

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It was suggested to me on this forum that this is a "production technique" and "not suitable for a home shop", but I have two in the works right now, and they are not that difficult, and I feel much more confident in them staying flat over the long term.

[Sam Murdoch]

That was me Joe and I will be happy for your success with the stave core technique but aren't you finding that you still need to flatten your glued up stock on the jointer and then to the thickness planer? Are you using a vacuum bag for gluing your veneers? Seems to be lots of glue and clamp time involved that can be completely avoided by starting out as I detailed in that other post about how to achieve flat stock. If you are limited to stock on hand then I understand the need to be more creative with the process and stave core allows for that. I am open minded so looking forward to hearing how this works for you.

All the best, Sam

[Richard Shaefer]

Stave core can work for either home or production use. It's best for exterior doors and arguably overkill for interior doors. An alternate method that makes a bit more sense (to me at least) is to make your rails and stiles out of 2 plies of lumber rather than going for a solid core. IF you can get the lumber from teh same tree and are careful about piece selection for the narrow side joint, you won't even need to rip and gule a veneer for that edge. A while ago, I built 11 interior doors out of cherry and QSRO this way. Rail and stile thickness was 1 5/8", and the panels were 1/2" veneer plywood. All the joints were full M&T with massurunduba (sp?) sqare pegged joints. The extra mass and thickness of the door is readily apparent as custom to anyone who touches them, and they are dead solid.

I did get one door had allegedly gone out and no longer closed right. Checked the door and nope, it's dead flat and square. the house settled funny around it.

[Sam Murdoch]

Stave core can work for either home or production use. It's best for exterior doors and arguably overkill for interior doors. An alternate method that makes a bit more sense (to me at least) is to make your rails and stiles out of 2 plies of lumber rather than going for a solid core. IF you can get the lumber from teh same tree and are careful about piece selection for the narrow side joint, you won't even need to rip and gule a veneer for that edge. it.

Yes, I've done this myself with thick doors - a great look with no compromise and a good use of thinner (less expensive) premium lumber.

[Jim Foster]

It seems pretty reasonable to try a 2-ply door. Since I have the material on hand I can try it when it's time.

Thanks

[Mike Cogswell]

I just measured nine 100+ year old doors I have on hand. Seven were 1 1/8" and the other two were 1 1/4". They're in great shape, but they are also made from old growth SYP, which is about as dense and strong as oak. The pine they sell today feels like balsa wood compared to old SYP.

Also, those thinner old doors had external passage locks. I can find thin mortise locks for the doors I have, but they barely fit a 1 1/8. I really think the 1" is too thin.