Scoring motor or belt drive from the main Blade?

[Kirk Duff]

Hello all looking for input

I'm back on the table saw quest with scoring. My question is what is the difference between belt drive from the main motor scoreing and an independent motor?

will I notice a difference in cut quality?

all i come up with is more hp for the scoreing and main blade? The ability to shut off the scoreing blade when not in use. All the scoreing blades are driven by belts so the belt should not be an issue


thanks look forward to hearing from all

Kirk

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi, I have a Hammer B3 Winner with a belt driven scoring saw.

There's no difference in performance compared to a scoring saw with a motor.

Since you're cutting sheet goods when scoring you will not notice any power issues.

Regards, Rod.

P.S. You will notice a big difference in scoring blades, make sure you get a split blade with shims to adjust the thickness.

[Jeff Monson]

I think it boils down to a convenience issue. I have a seperate motor to run my scoring unit, it is convenient to not fire it up when I dont need it. Otherwise I would just be removing the belt while not in use. Wouldnt be a deal breaker for me either way.

I'll second Rod's advice on blades, the 2 piece shimmed blades are the way to go. Unless you want to spend big dollars on an adjustable blade. I have a one piece blade with conical teeth, I dont care much for this blade.

[Larry Edgerton]

I have an older SCMI with one motor. I rarely use the scoring blade any more as I do not work with melamine any longer so I just pulled the blade and bolted the bushing back on. Its been running this way for years, no problems. I can lower my blade, but then I have to readjust as it is a conical blade like Jeffs. If I was going to use it more I would buy the two piece as well.

I really can't understand the advantage of a second motor, you have to lower or remove the blade if you dont want it anyway, and the cut is shallow so it does not require much extra to run. Seems like unnecessary complication to me, violates the KISS principle. Probably something I don't understand.....

Larry

[frank shic]

scoring is so worthwhile if you plan on working with any sheet product in the near future. i bought an additional portable table saw so i wouldn't have to take out the scoring attachment in my powermatic.

[Kirk Duff]

I build cabinets now for a liveing just took it from a pass time to full time. I use melamine and get tired of chips and replacing blades every 10 sheets to stop it. I'm looking to up grade from a unisaw to slider with scoreing and all the sales people keep saying that i have to get a seperate motor or I will hate it and the belt drive don't work as well. I wanted to talk to those who have it because I don't under stand why it won't work. I'm a one man shop I'm not cutting 100 sheets a week I just want a nice clean cut on what I cut with out breaking the bank.

Thanks for your input
Kirk

[Rod Sheridan]

I build cabinets now for a liveing just took it from a pass time to full time. I use melamine and get tired of chips and replacing blades every 10 sheets to stop it. I'm looking to up grade from a unisaw to slider with scoreing and all the sales people keep saying that i have to get a seperate motor or I will hate it and the belt drive don't work as well. I wanted to talk to those who have it because I don't under stand why it won't work. I'm a one man shop I'm not cutting 100 sheets a week I just want a nice clean cut on what I cut with out breaking the bank.

Thanks for your input
Kirk

How would the saw blade know whether it was driven from a belt like the main blade, or had a motor?

Not very knowledgeable sales people................Rod.

[frank shic]

sounds like an attempt to upsell to me... how many of those sales people have actually used the saw?

[Stephen Cherry]

How would the saw blade know whether it was driven from a belt like the main blade, or had a motor?

Not very knowledgeable sales people................Rod.

Of course the blade dosen't even know that it's a blade. (I think). In my opinion, it would all come down to feed rate. If you are taking power off of a main motor that is none too large to begin with, it leaves you with even less. Saws with separate scoring motors will also have larger main motors, as well as more iron for rigidity. A saw with only one 4 hp motor will not have the juice to cut as fast as a saw with 7-9 hp, and a separate 1 hp scoring motor. This, in my estimation, would be important for two reasons. First, it would allow cutting 2 sheets at the same time, for example, two sides of a cabinet. Second, it would save a little time in the cut, as well as relieving the operator of the mental task of slowing a cut to prevent bogging the motor. and third, high feed rates allow more sheets cut per blade sharpening. Of course, the more sheets you cut, the more difference this makes.

So while the sales person may not really fully understand why a separate scoring motor is better, some may have had feedback from customers that the bigger saw are easier to use.

Also, it seems to me that the sliding table saw is semi obsolete for large scale cabinet production. No first hand knowledge, but if you look at what is being sold at auction, I think that these saws are out. That's a big advantage for the little guy- the market, at least down here, is awash with saws. Martin, Scmi, Felder (I've got a k975), altendorf, they all come up used. And if you get a good deal on a used machine, and it ends up not meeting your needs, you could always change directions without loosing your shirt. If I were to do it over again, I would look at something like a felder kf700 s pro. Nice saw, with a shaper built in for tenoning using the slide.

[Jeff Monson]

Kirk, I was lucky when I bought my Felder (used), it had a seperate scoring motor. If I were configuring a new machine, knowing what I know now (which is very little, keep in mind), I'd tend to put the extra money towards another feature that is more valuable to me, or save the money all together. Important features to me would be, remote switch for the saw motor on the end of the slider, preperation for dado capability, mitre indexing on the outrigger (I dont have this but I wish I did). Those would be my top 3 choices.

[Brian Millspaw]

We have a grizzly panel saw at work with a belt driven scoring blade. The belt is constantly being ruined by the small offcuts that fall down beside the blade. I noticed that grizzly updated all of these saws to "separate scoring motors". It may depend on how the drive train is engineered, but I would not buy one with belt drive.

[Greg Portland]

Does the 2nd motor allow the scoring blade to rotate in the opposite direction while a belt drive forces the blade to spin in the same direction as the main blade (or does the belt cross itself?).

[Kirk Duff]

Kirk, I was lucky when I bought my Felder (used), it had a seperate scoring motor. If I were configuring a new machine, knowing what I know now (which is very little, keep in mind), I'd tend to put the extra money towards another feature that is more valuable to me, or save the money all together. Important features to me would be, remote switch for the saw motor on the end of the slider, preperation for dado capability, mitre indexing on the outrigger (I dont have this but I wish I did). Those would be my top 3 choices.

your top three eaxtras are things i'm looking at to and Kinda the way i feel.

kirk

[Larry Edgerton]

We have a grizzly panel saw at work with a belt driven scoring blade. The belt is constantly being ruined by the small offcuts that fall down beside the blade. I noticed that grizzly updated all of these saws to "separate scoring motors". It may depend on how the drive train is engineered, but I would not buy one with belt drive.

My SCMI has had the same belt running for over 15 years. I thought that might be a problem so I bought a spare with my saw. Its still sitting in the spare parts cabinet. Must be a poor design.

Greg, the saw blade does run in the opposite direction with one motor. It turns the power much the same way a serpentine belt works on some car accessories by driving off of the other side of the belt.

Larry

[frank shic]

good point, brian! i had to get a replacement belt after an offcut landed in the scoring unit since i couldn't figure out how to make a tablesaw throat insert to accomodate the smaller blade...

[Rod Sheridan]

The scoring blade rotates in the opposite direction to the main blade...........Rod.

[Van Huskey]

Of course the blade dosen't even know that it's a blade. (I think). In my opinion, it would all come down to feed rate. If you are taking power off of a main motor that is none too large to begin with, it leaves you with even less. Saws with separate scoring motors will also have larger main motors, as well as more iron for rigidity. A saw with only one 4 hp motor will not have the juice to cut as fast as a saw with 7-9 hp, and a separate 1 hp scoring motor. This, in my estimation, would be important for two reasons. First, it would allow cutting 2 sheets at the same time, for example, two sides of a cabinet. Second, it would save a little time in the cut, as well as relieving the operator of the mental task of slowing a cut to prevent bogging the motor. and third, high feed rates allow more sheets cut per blade sharpening. Of course, the more sheets you cut, the more difference this makes.

.

To further this for Kirk's situation it depends on how often he does stacked cuts. Some guys cut stacks of sheet goods at a time, just depends on what and how much they are building, for those guys horsepower is key, and as Stephen points out 2 motors mean less direct and parasitic loss and usually means the machine will have a bigger primary as well.

[Rick Lizek]

No difference at all. 2 piece split is better than conical because slight wave in sheets will not be affected with split. Forrest HiAt blade doesn't need a scoring blade to cut chip free cuts in melamine which the worst to cut.