Need help identifying this really heavy woodworker's vise (already spent many hours)

[Timothy Serback]

I wanted a good old but working woodworker's vise, and I came across one on CL for $40. It turned out to be WAY bigger than I expected, and best of all it works better than any vise I've used/touched (which isn't that many). It looks like to be about at least 80 years old. It came from a doctor who inherited from his grandfather. The jaws have about 1/4" thick leather pads that are glued on. The jaws measure about 9"x5", and it the quick locking mechanism only grabs to a little over 15", maybe 16" because I measured it not subtracting the thickness's of the leather pads. The overall length of it when closed about 23" including the handle. I grabbed a 30lb dumbbell to compare weights, and the non-moving part weighs about that, but the moving part weighs a lot more than that... so I would have to say that this whole vise is about 65 to 85lbs. I've rubbed many areas to find try to find any markings, but I couldn't find anything except for the number "2" marked on two spots on the piece metal (which I think is called a cam?) that pushes the copper/bronze locking teeth. There may be markings under the leather pads, but I really like how it's setup and don't want to remove the pads just yet. I've searched for hours and cannot find anything this close to this. I've tried a million different forums, worthpoint, ebay, CL, etc. Can anybody help me out? Thanks for looking.
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[david brum]

Take a look at the Norbourn vice, lower right. It looks similar and might be a point to start from.

http://old-woodworking-tools.com/index/fullimages/096.jpg

[Timothy Serback]

That's awesome. I'm amazed at how quickly you found such an obscure vise.... from an article from 1897?! So I spent another few hours reading old mags and stuff from google. The Norbourn seems to be the match or at least closest to it, based on the curve in the front, the handle design, and the cam quick lock design. I wish it said how tall the jaws were and the weight, because mine look like a inch taller than that of the pic, and overall it does look longer than the one in the pic which probably goes along with my measurements of it clamping up to 16" workpieces. I stared at the handle on mine for the markings, but I guess after a 100 years of usage the markings probably faded away or something. All I know is that this sucker is big, probably 80 lbs, and works really really smoothly and well. The guy who sold it to me demonstrated it before taking it off the bench, and used regular/minimal force to turn the handle to clamp a piece of wood and told me to try to budge it. I was in awe, especially when I loosened it and felt how smooth jaws went in and out.

[david brum]

I don't know Timothy, unless that vice is worth a bunch, you might regret selling it. Not only would it be impossible to replace, but you'd have to spend a couple of hundred bucks to get something approaching that size, and it would still be wimpier. It would be fun to design a bench around.

To get an idea of its worth though, you might start by directing your question to the Neanderthal forum. There is probably somebody over there who's familiar with your vice.

[Timothy Serback]

Thanks for the suggestion, but I'm probably going to keep it partly for reasons you mentioned. I haven't built the bench yet, but right now I only have room for about a 45" wide work bench, with 35" wide base, and it's going to be my only bench for wood/automotive/electronic/metal work. Right now, I have a Morgan 140 vise that has 7.25" swivel base (with 3 mounting ears that stick out over 1.5") that needs to be put on it. So real estate is minimal, and I'm not sure about the best way/place to mount this on my bench when I make it.
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[Biff Johnson]

I hope you aren't selling it so you can buy better beer than Milwaukee Best Light! If you need a couple bucks.....:)

[david brum]

I can't remember where I saw the idea, but my metal working vice has a hardwood "T" shaped platform bolted to the base. When I need it, I clamp the base of the T into my front vice. When I don't need it, I store it under my bench. It's quite solid, although if I were going to apply serious leverage, such as bending something, I'd make the T out of metal. It's still not ideal, since I get metal bits on my bench, but it's the only spot I've got.

BTW, I once put casters onto the legs of my work bench. There was too much wobble for working with hand tools, even with a heavy bench. Now it looks like Rockler (http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=30842) is making bench specific casters which retract to make the bench stable.

[Timothy Serback]

Yeah, I'm always trying different cheap beer, and I'd say if you were to split up cheap beer into tiers, Busch regular is at the top, and Milwaukee's Best Light is 2nd tier. LOL Times are rough. I DO drink good beer too, and I've had some of the best beers and wines in the world (even had some wine that goes for over $2000 a bottle), but right now I have to settle for what is in my budget.

I've read a bunch about the casters, and I'm not set yet on it, although I have them already. I thought they were 6" but they are actually 5" ones, as shown here (http://www.surpluscenter.com/Item.asp?item=1-3287-B). So they are somewhat decent casters, that lock both the swivel and the wheel. I've seen many designs on DIY setups like that Rockler setup, and I might have to reconsider. I think I didn't include a stationary/locking design because I figured it might be a pain in the butt to get the rear adjusters since the table is in a corner most of the time. But then again, it'll probably be more pain in the butt to have a wobbly work bench. :confused:
As far as the vise, are you talking about something that is like a wood jaw cover? If you can find a picture of what you are talking about, that would explain things better.

[david brum]

Here's a quick photo of my set up. Your vices (no pun intended) are bigger than mine, but you get the idea.

[Timothy Serback]

So that red vise is quickly removable, and is held in place by the wood vise?
Man, that's a thick workbench top surface you have. I have a 1.75" thick solid door that I'm going to use for my top, and I do have enough to double it up. I didn't see any reason to do that, but I'm seeing more and more pics of people having the thick tops.

[david brum]

You're right-the metal working vice is removable. I just clamp it in the wood vice when I need it (like this morning when I wanted to solder a band saw blade).

The idea of a thicker bench top is to add as much weight as reasonable possible, and to give plenty of extra material for future bench flattening. The reason you want a heavy bench is so it won't wobble when you're hand planing or sawing. It really makes a difference.

[Salem Ganzhorn]

I think that is a "Sheldon" vise. Or st least it is the same design.
Chris Schwarz uses one as a tail vise on his now famous cherry Roubo. Looks like Megan got ahold of one too: http://www.popularwoodworking.com/woodworking-blogs/editors-blog/sheldon-vise-install-on-a-deadline
Salem

[Timothy Serback]

I've seen these, and there's another company around the same time that has one like it. It's similar in design that it has a curved handle and has a cam lock quick lock mechanism. The one I have has a full size static jaw base that weighs over 40lbs by itself. I got a hold of a scale and found out that the whole vise weighs just shy of 69lbs. The pic of the Norbourn at first doesn't look like it but if you look at it carefully, it does have a full length static jaw/mount, but they pictured the vise with a cutout to show the back end. I'm thinking that the Norbourn pictured had a bigger brother because there is no way that the vise cost $4.10 when the 65lb vise also described in the ad cost $11.05. I'd figure just the raw materials of 65+ lbs of metal (iron?) back then would cost more than $4.10. Here's a clearer pic of the ad (http://books.google.com/books?id=0wBZAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA787&dq=norbourn+vise+wood&hl=en&sa=X&ei=HPw6T9GyNObA2gXm5PmeCg&ved=0CE8Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=norbourn%20vise%20wood&f=false)

Thanks for the lookout. I'm pretty sure I'm going to keep it, but I'm still looking at how to mount it in my current plans for my workbench. I wish I had a bigger garage, but for $70K for a decent house I can't complain. I just found out today that I have a opportunity to get an old school metal lathe in exchange for mowing the lawn (many times) and doing handy work for my friend's grandma. Her grandfather was on the R&R departments for Emerson Electric and Ridgid years ago, and still had a ton of tools when he past away that's been collecting dust. They now want to have a basement that isn't "cluttered with tools." I haven't seen it yet, but I heard it's huge. So it's quite possible that I have to choose between having that lathe or a spot to fit my car in my garage. **sigh** Another thing is that even though it would be worth a lot and would be awesome to just own one, how often would I use the thing at this point in my life? I don't see using it more than a few times a year. My car doesn't work right now, and I was trying to get my garage setup and remodeled so I could bring it in from the cold and work on it. So many choices, but at least they are no-loss type of choices.

[Mike Archambeau]

That vice was a great find! Just think of the history every time you put it to work. Some people like old houses because of the history of the place. But oh if those old tools could talk.........