February 2012 DAMP meeting

[Mike Cruz]

The boys got together at Peter's for the first time yesterday. Peter was a great host with bagels and coffee. (Something I've never done...I make everyone fend for themselves...:o)

The point of the meeting this month...coring! Dan, Peter and I all have the McNaughton coring system. But none of us had used it! :o So, this was our chance to get out feet wet. Tony doesn't yet own a coring system...we'll see if he gets one. ;)

I was up first and mounted up a 14" maple bowl that I had pre roughed out. (That was part of our plan...to each bring a bowl or two that had the bottom roughed and a tenon turned on it). I put mine between centers, cleaned up the outside, cleaned up the tenon (um, actually I had to resize it because of a snafu involving a Stronghold chuck, but no key...:rolleyes:). Put the blank into the chuck, and with Peter's help, began coring. Side note: We all watched the Mahoney DVD, and some watched Grumbine's, too. Obviously, two different styles, and different approaches. Since we only had the one chuck to work with, and didn't want to have to change out jaws and rechuck, etc, I decided to go the Mahoney route...starting with the inside (smallest) bowl, and moving outward. I (in my excitement) forgot to clean out the first small bowl before coring it, so that will leave a little more work later. Everything went fairly smoothly. The Jet1642 did a fine job. It bogged down a bit, but got the job done. Here are my results...223587223588

While Peter mounted up an Ambrosia maple blank, and trued it up, 223589 I got on my Jet1014 (that I toted along with me to Peter's) and turned an Ash burl cigar pen. Sorry, no pics yet. Peter plugged away at the maple. 223590223591 Dan worked on the middle a bit. Then Tony took a shot at the outter bowl...and OOPS! Inside got bigger than the outside... So, they were left with a funnel and a medium bowl.
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This was, however, after we went to lunch at one of Peter's favorite lunch spots. Great sammiches! No, not a beerfest (although they had a great selection!).

All in all, it was a good experience, and we got our coring feet wet! I think I'll be a lot less shy about pulling the coring knives out in the near future.

[Russell Eaton]

Mike that looks like a LOT of fun. I cored my first bowls a couple weeks ago. I did it with no one around, that way there were no witnesses if something bad happened.

[Roger Chandler]

That was a great Day! Question Mike..........was the 1642 a 1.5 hp or 2 hp model? I have been thinking about that McNaughten unit myself................I would like to hear more about your experience with it before I pull the trigger on more Vortex stuff!

[Tony De Masi]

Roger, the Jet was the 1.5 hp.

[Dan Hintz]

It was a 1.5HP. While we did freeze the spindle multiple times in the beginning, someone <cough cough> finally realized the motor was connected using the high-speed pulleys. Once we shifted over to the low-speed pulleys and got more torque, the only time we froze the spindle was when I managed to catch (<cough>twice<cough> :().

I will say this about the coring system... the video makes it look easy from a DIY standpoint, and despite what others may say, I can't agree with that assessment based upon my own short experience with it. That's not to say it won't be easy to learn for some, but it wasn't working that way for me. I am definitely missing something in my technique. I'm told I chose the most difficult tool (the smallest and tightest curve they make), hence the easy catches, but again, I'm not sure I agree with that assessment... it either works for you or it doesn't, and it wasn't for me.

When I visit Bill Grumbine next week to pick up my Robust, I'll see if he can give me a quick demo and figure out where my technique is failing. It may be a simple fix, and hopefully it is, but the one note I came away with from this month's meeting was "It ain't plug-and-play for everyone".

Tony had a significantly closer experience to what was shown on the DVD, with a near-continuous stream of curlies coming out of the kerf. Mike and Peter had a few moments here and there, but I saw mostly tiny chips/sawdust out of their attempts. I was obviously at the bottom of the barrel, and I didn't want to screw up the blank any further, so I handed it over to Tony after my small center section was removed (about a 6" diameter mini-bowl). Could I have done better on a larger diameter tool and cut? Possibly, and I'll know that answer in weeks/months to come when I try it again...

[Jim Burr]

Coring!! Next step, but mine will be DYI...no one around here does it:(. Looks like a good time was had by all, except the beer selection comittee:eek:

[Roger Chandler]

Thanks guys..............it is my understanding after seeing a demo with the Oneway coring rig, that the McNaughten has more versatility but it also has a steeper learning curve........thats what the guy who demo'd the oneway said, and he has used both.

the oneway has a pretty steep price as well............I seem to have more wood than I can get to turn, so I am not sure....I just hate wasting anything!

[David E Keller]

I would have loved to be there... Coring is on my list of things to learn. Any chance you buys are gonna start posting some of these sessions on YouTube? I think I'd get a kick out of watching the stooges core bowls!

[Roger Turnbough]

Looks like a fun time had by all. Nicely done. I happen to own a Oneway set with all 4 of the knives. And what most say, is pretty much spot on. Very easy to use, very easy to set up. It will catch upon occasion, but that is a rare occurrence for me. You can play a bit with the shape of the bowls, by changing the setups, but are mostly confined to the section of a circle.

This past week, I had an opportunity to use a McNaughton system on some soft maple and some ash blanks that I had. My biggest impression of this system is, it is much louder than the Oneway system. So much so, that I was forced to find my ear plugs and put them in. I had a little bit of difficulty trying to correlate the entry angle and finish point. I found that you cannot start the knife off, so the entry cut is parallel to the ways, but rather, almost pointed at what would become the bottom of the bowl. I was able to achieve some very nice cores, with nice even walls using it. I also found that withdrawing the knife to clear chips was problematic. As the knife tended to get stuck in the kerf.

All in all it was a pretty good experience, and with a bit more practice I believe that I can become more proficient with it.

Roger

[Mike Cruz]

Russell, it was a lot of fun. I thought that while there is a learning curve, it is a process that uses feel. It isn't black and white technical right or wrong. You use the Force, and do what you see on the videos. I'm sure it gets easier with use...

Roger C, as Tony stated, it is a 1.5 hp. I think it has plenty of HP. One issue I think I was having that may have made things a little more difficult for me, was that my set is made for the up to 18" blanks. That said, when my turret was in the banjo on Peter's lathe, I couldn't get the cutter AT the center of the blank. I was just above center. Everything I've heard/seen regarding the McNaughton system says that it is crucial that you have the cutter AT center. So, I think things will go a little smoother on my lathe. I haven't used the Oneway, but will say that I really like the McNaughton. I think how quickly you learn how to use it probably directly correlates to your control with lathe tools in general. The more experienced you are at turning in general, the easier it will be to "pick up" the feel for using it.

Dan, with all due respect, you weren't really around me when I was coring... You were schooling Tony on photography. So, not sure how you are assessing the process of my coring... Also, my blank was pretty dry. Dry wood doesn't create the long and curlies like wet wood (what you guys were turning). But Tony's cut (albeit that it created a funnel) was smooth, and in my opinion, a testament to his turning ability and that he turns often.

Jim, I'm confident that you will do just fine. As for the beer, there was plenty of it. Selection was good, too. I just didn't dive in too deep because I was on the lathes and other equipment most of the day. Had one before lunch, and one at the end of the day. Had I not brought my Jet to turn a pen, I may have needed my wife to pick me up...;)

Roger C, I'm right there with ya! I'm intrigued by coring not because I don't have anythng else to turn, but rather that I see the pile of shavings after turning an Ambrosia Maple bowl, and get a sinking feeling in my chest about all the beautiful wood that got wasted... Again, the more experienced a turner you are, the easier and shorter the learning curve will be. I liken it to hollowing (even so I haven't done hollowing yet)... And correct me if I'm wrong, but when hollowing, you are doing it by feel. You don't often get to see your cutterhead. You just "know" where it is, and what it is doing out of experience. Not that a completely new turner "couldn't" hollow, but it would be MUCH easier for a seasoned bowl turner to transition into hollowing that it would be for a novice that still is concentrating on basic cuts. You'll do just fine...

David, I bet you would like to see it! It would make a heck of a half hour show!!!!:D With proper editing (and it would take a LOT of editing), we might have the next reality show on our hands. :rolleyes: No, none of us have talked about YouTubing any of our meetings. I think it would be a cluster___ of disarray and haphazzardness. I think exercising our right to not incriminate ourselves is our best bet. ;)

Roger T, that is what I have heard about the Oneway system...you are pretty much stuck with one shape. The price was the deal breaker for me. I got McNaughton used from a local Creeker... Thanks for your input, though.

[Dan Hintz]

Tony had a significantly closer experience to what was shown on the DVD, with a near-continuous stream of curlies coming out of the kerf. Mike and Peter had a few moments here and there, but I saw mostly tiny chips/sawdust out of their attempts.


Dan, with all due respect, you weren't really around me when I was coring... You were schooling Tony on photography. So, not sure how you are assessing the process of my coring... Also, my blank was pretty dry. Dry wood doesn't create the long and curlies like wet wood (what you guys were turning). But Tony's cut (albeit that it created a funnel) was smooth, and in my opinion, a testament to his turning ability and that he turns often.

Dude, did I miss something? I said Tony got curlies, you and Peter got more chips.

You're jumping down my virtual case, but then you turn around and said your blank was dry and that's why you got chips and not curlies (I was 10' away in direct line of sight to the lathe... I looked over quite a bit).

Did I get something wrong? I don't believe I made any comment at all as to the quality of the cores.

Have another beer...

[Mike Cruz]

If you watch Mahoney's DVD, when he turns dry wood, all he gets are chips. So, the continuous stream of curlies are due to the wood. And yes, when you say that Tony got the curlies, but Peter and I only got chips, that does sound like you are addressing the quality of the cut. And not to get too picky, but we were on opposite ends of a two car gargage...hardly 10 feet. Hey, I'm not jumping down your virtual case. All is good. I just didn't see how you were making the assessments that you stated when you seemed to be involved in other things and not close by. If you were observing, then I guess you saw enough.

[Dan Forman]

Sounds like a good time wa had by all, and you came away with some very stylish hats!

Dan

[Peter Elliott]

It was great having all the guys over for our monthly meeting.

I will say this, we all share passion for woodworking, especially this vortex thingy. We all come from different backgrounds, which is why the little group is a whole lot of fun ;). You do have to leave your feelings at the door! There are some "jib-jabs" through out the session and it's all in good humor.

Tackling "coring" for this month was a big step with DAMP. First time we really set a main topic for the meet. I did a few cores the week prior and I found it as many described - time! Just need time with this tool. It helped watching both Grumbine and Mahoney videos. I prefer Bill Grumbines method. I think other guys may like Mahoney? It doesn't matter because we tried both.

Like anything new there are frustrations but that turns into a learning experience.

Big key for me was to move my belts to the lower end setting on the Jet 1642EVS 1.5hp lathe. To which I thank Tony for! Just a small thing made a big difference. I also have the XL version of the tools, so on a small 10" bowl, the tools maybe too big. It's not hard, the tools don't beat you up. It's the approach of the tool that is a big learning curve (no pund :D intended)..

Coring = time, patience, time, time, time...
Will I take the tool out on all my work? NOPE! but I know there will be more "big daddy blanks" to core in the future!

Pen CA finish came out pretty good. A few oopps at first but showed how to correct them. The end result was a very nice CA finish with ren wax. Mike's little lathe was cool to turn on, never tried one in the past.

We figured out how to assemble my photo tent.. now that was funny! 8 hands, 4 brains, 4 attitudes on how to assemble a photo tent. That should have been on Youtube! :eek:

Not much to report in the beverage section. I have plenty of craft brew stouts that didn't go over too well. Fact, don't feed Tony any beer unless you have a epi-pen near buy.. JEEZZ!

Here is Mike at coring, Mahoney style:
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Nice 14" ready to get it's guts cored.. whoohaahahaaa
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Good day overall - and I am still cleaning up today...

-Peter

[Dan Hintz]

Pen CA finish came out pretty good. A few oopps at first but showed how to correct them. The end result was a very nice CA finish with ren wax. Mike's little lathe was cool to turn on, never tried one in the past.

We figured out how to assemble my photo tent.. now that was funny! 8 hands, 4 brains, 4 attitudes on how to assemble a photo tent. That should have been on Youtube! :eek:
Yeah, I really liked Mike's "new" mini lathe... there's something more comforting about using a small piece of equipment when turning a small item like pens. It would be ideal if it was variable speed, but it's nice without, nonetheless.

The phototent was a Monty Python sketch in the making. I didn't see the velcro strip at the bottom, so ever thought of flippin' the sucker over. I'm scratchin' my head thinking, "Did they screw up and actually stitch this thing together wrong?!" It came from China from FleaBay (like mine), so it wouldn't have surprised me as having no QC. Maybe the beer fumes were getting to me...

I do hope Tony posts some of those pics we took of his footed Bradford Pear bowl... I'd like to see if they turned out.

[Roger Chandler]

Since DAMP is having monthly meetings, teaching techniques such as coring and such...........it would not take much more and a few more folks in attendance at your meetings to qualify you to pursue an official AAW chapter status.........:cool::D

[Peter Elliott]

qualify you to pursue an official AAW chapter status.........:cool::D

That's like the "Bad News Bears" going to the World Series. :eek:

Does craft beer count as a "technique" or is that just art?

Thanks Roger!

[Mike Cruz]

Roger, you have to use "teaching" very loosely. Well, USUALLY, Tony...I mean Yoda...teaches us. But he hadn't cored before, so he was a student yesterday. The problem was that we were ALL students... We all WATCHED the DVDs. Peter did take it a step further, though. Being the host, he did some coring to aid us in our venture. It really helped knowing that he has done it. So, when I got up (first), I wasn't just guessing what went where. There were adjustments to make, but Peter had the basics to get things started and guide though it....ya know, with one hand pointing at things, and the other holding a beer. ;)

[Jeff Nicol]

WELL DAMP IT!! Sure wish I was knee deep in money and had private plane, I surely would fly out for a session! It looks like much fun was had by all, but the beautiful Ambrosia maple made some nice bowls and that especially nice lampshade! But on to the serious stuff, when I got my McNaughton I figured out that if I started with the cutter at center at the outer edge by the time I got to the center I was cutting below center, thus causing catches and binding. I fixed that by adding a small plastic spacer on my other spacer that keep the gates at the correct height for my PM3520B. So now all I have to do is make sure of where I end up with the cut, and it can be figured out fairly easily with a bit of practice and to make sure the chips or curls clean out is to keep the cutter sharp, the speed right and open the kerf when needed to discourage binding. I have M Mahoneys and Reeds videos and they both give you great pointers and I have cored both ways with good success.

I was reminded that I should get busy and finsish a bunch of cored sets this weekend while I was cleaning the shop a bit inbetween projects and ordering bearings and pulleys for one of them. But I moved 80+ roughed out pieces up into the upper level of my shop and counted 10-15 cored sets in total hiding in the mess up there! I knew there was some things up there but not quite that many!

Enough on my mess, maybe I will win the lottery soon and that private plane will be a reality, I will wake up from the dream soon!

Great work DAMP IT!

Jeff

[Mike Cruz]

You know, Jeff, a road trip would work, too. Heck, bring a pick up and I'll load ya up with AM. ;)

On another note, I failed to mention that, while I was elbows deep into my pen turning, Peter completed a coring! Let me repeat that, because it completely slipped my mind. Sorry, Peter. Yeah, Peter cored a roughly 14" blank into two bowls, and dropped them into DNA. Post some pics of them when you get a chance, Peter.

[Don Alexander]

i'm still working on the roadtrip idea myself hehe hopefully it will work out looks like you guys have alot of fun

[Josh Bowman]

Dan,
I've had my McNaughton for about 16 months and have made a fair share of lamp shades and #$%^'s from locking the spindle or pulling the blank off the chuck. In the past couple of weeks I have been revisiting the #$%^ thing and starting to see some good results. Here are my observations: Grumbine, Mahoney and Reed Gray are evil wizards that tempt folks into this passage of the vortex:D
With that said, the thing does work. I find touching up the tip with some diamond hones help, reading the instructions for ensuring the tip is at center line WHEN the tool is fully extended fixed some of my problems. Your experience may be like mine in that different wood makes a real difference. Some wood ejects chips and curls easily, some just spits out dust and chips and jams the blade, I don't feel that anything can be done about it other than to be aware of it. Kathy Marshal told me to stop the lathe often and visualize the curve of the blade and the outside curve of the bowl. That helped a lot in preventing lamp shades. I have found Reeds method of doing the big bowl first and using a recessed tenon in the top of the little bowl core helpful. Since the thing likes to go deeper than predicted, I have found it helpful to really open up the slot and get a feel for following the inside core with the blade, just be aware I think it will cut sideways when it's going through the turn at the bottom, so don't push it very hard. The blade should never ever be in a bind, if it is, it's going deep, pull out and recut the track. I had fitted mine with a laser, but find it actually hindered me by making me try to rely on it instead of the above "feels". I have 3 more blanks waiting in my shop now and intend to do them today, I may delete any positive in this post at the end of the day.:eek:
All in all the folks that do well with it get a lot of practice and I think I've done it enough now to say there is a knack/feel to it.

[Dan Hintz]

Thanks for the feedback, Josh... as Grumbine et. al. show, as with any other tool, once you have the proper technique down it's effortless. I'm not there yet, but I haven't given up, I just need to take a step back and visualize what's happening at the tool/wood interface. Grumbine said he will have a coring setup ready to go when I get there this weekend to pick up the Robust, so hopefully 10-15 minutes is all I need to see the error of my ways. If I can do it, anyone can ;)