windsor chair class

[Dan Valleskey]

Thinking to take a Windsor chair class, continuous arm style. Well, my wife is thinking to end up with a set of chairs.
Once I take the class, how hard will it be to find the wood to make more chairs? If I am not mistaken, the spindles in the chair back are rived. I have no idea where I would find a white oak log! And the seat, is it possible to buy big hunks of ?elm, ?chestnut? what is used, and can it be located?
I have an instructor lined up, an old guy that has taught many classes, I have seen his work, and I have seen some of his student’s chairs. I’m pretty confident I will be able to build more after the class, on my own. If I can find wood. And if I can find motivation.


Any pitfalls to look out for? Is anyone out there making enough off these to pay for their time?


I have a lathe, but I am short on hand tools. I’m budgeting about 500 for hand tools, a scorp, adz, spokeshave, brace and bits. Does that sound about right? I have a decent drawknife. I expect to build a shave horse.


Is there much merit to having the seat shaped by CNC? I have heard there is considerable argument for shaping the seat to match your butt. But I will not be the only person sitting on this chair anyway! I wondered if that is one area where modern technology might be an improvement over hand work. And too, I am lazy- this sounds like a great way to save some sweat. Of course, I will have to pay the guy with the CNC some bucks for his time. And I will have to model the desired shape.
any advice, warning, or words of wisdom are welcome!


BTW- he might be looking for one or two more people to fill the class, near Terre Haute Indiana (I’ll drive from Indy) in the first week of April.
-Dan

[Richard Wolf]

Elia Bizzarri teaches, sells tools and also sells rived wood that may be of interest to you. Here is his website; http://www.handtoolwoodworking.com/supplies.html

[Mike Henderson]

Like most things, building Windsor chairs requires a number of special tools, jigs, and equipment. It will take you some time to collect all the tools, and to build the jigs, and especially the steam bending equipment and jigs. Unless you're working from someone else's jigs, expect that you'll have to modify the jigs after you try to build your first chairs. Windsor chairs are a real specialty. If all you're going to build is one set of chairs, I'd really try to get some time in a Windsor chairmaker's shop. You'll have access to the equipment, jigs and advice that will help you succeed with the set. It would be well worth the money you'll pay to the chairmaker for access.

Mike

[P.S. sculpting the seat is easy (and you can glue up the wood to make the seat). The wood you use for the seat is fairly soft so you can shape it easily. Which brings up another point. A Windsor chair is made from several species of wood. The wood is chosen for each part to best suit the purpose of that part. Since Windsor chairs are painted, the mixture of woods doesn't matter.

I just want to stress to you that there's a lot that goes into making a Windsor chair. When you make one in a class, everything is prepared for you. When you're on your own, there's a lot of preparation that has to be done before you even start.]

[One more comment: Windsor chairs seem to be an Eastern US thing. There's VERY little interest in them out here in CA. I think that's because there's more of a tradition of decorating in Early American in the eastern US. There's a lot of people who make Windsor Chairs and try to sell them. Prices I've seen are in the high hundreds (close to $1K) and shipping is very expensive. There's a group of makers who are pretty well established. I think it'd be very, very difficult for a new maker to break into the business and make any money.]

[Philip Duffy]

Dan, Why not take the class, make a chair in his shop and then decide how passionate you are about continuing to make Windsors. Mike's comments are spot on and I would only add that there are several choices for making the spindles and stretchers but when it comes to the bending parts there are few good choices and the "kit" you need to bend the wood is a bit of a project all in itself because you will need a big form with lots of wedges and clamps to bend the wood. There are several good videos on the Web on how to do all this stuff. Take a look and see how to/not proceed. Good luck! Phil

[Dan Valleskey]

I talked with him about the jigs and such. He says, far as he is concerned, building the bending jig is part of the class, I will walk away with a bending jig. It is a continuous arm design, so yes, that will be one heck of a big jig!

The steamer he has plans for, but we will use his in the class. The shavehorse I am to build ahead of time to his plans. I'll actually spend a day in his shop ahead of the class going over stuff I need to have ready and things to have in my tool box.

Future access to his shop for building more chairs is probably not an option, it is almost two hours drive. But his goal is to have me to where I can build another chair after the class without his direct input. (I've known the guy for years, pretty sure I can always pick up the phone and ask questions!)

Glad to hear shaping the seat is not onerous. For some reason that had me worried. I know the steaming and forming is tough, I have watched people do it.

Understand about using the different woods. I've seen them painted, but I've seen a number of them just sanded and varnished. I would lean that way, I think it is fun to see the different woods brought together.

One more question-
What are the stringers and rungs usually made of?

Thanks for the helpful, intelligent input.

-Dan V.

[Steve Baumgartner]

I took some of the Mike Dunbar courses and have made about a dozen windsors since. If you plan to make them to sell, you will have to market intensively and be ready to compete with the established players. The market is limited enough that you shouldn't expect to get rich doing this! On the other hand, you can have a lot of enjoyment making them for yourself, family, and friends.

The old-time traditional woods were:
- white pine for the seat (carves easily and is strong enough in traditional 2" thickness. You'll need to glue up to get the width.)
- oak for the back parts, spindles, bent back and crest rails (start with green wood - it splits and bends better than dried)
- maple for the legs and stretchers (turns well, takes a crisp profile)

However, people often substituted fancier woods in "stain grade" rather than painted chairs. A harder wood in the seat is, well, harder to carve. If you use power tools for this, they take away most of the issue. Even with a harder wood, avoid the "factory" temptation to substitute a thinner seat blank - even though it is stronger than pine, you can't dish it out deep enough to be comfortable.

Other wood for the legs and stretchers becomes an issue only if you pick something that is difficult to turn cleanly.

Oak is one of the easiest and most reliable woods to bend, but you can bend just about any wood if you are patient and willing to deal with some breakage. Again, the key is to start with green wood. Many tree companies will sell you a freshly cut oak log. It's a bit of work, but kind of fun to split, rive, and shave it down. Failing that, air-dried is the second choice. Kiln-dried is the most difficult to bend because the drying creates small fractures in the wood that tend to split out as you bend. It can be done, but the failure rate is higher.

With a little creativity and some scavenging, you can build a very serviceable steam bending rig for under $100. Search the web and you should find some plans.

Steve

[Philip Duffy]

Dan, The biggest challenge for a new chair maker is the drilling of the leg holes in the seat. All kinds of methods and jigs are used. Pay very close attention to what you are shown but keep in mind that your mind may work differently than his and you may need to develop your own mind-set on how to get the angles properly aligned. - - more good luck! Phil

[joe milana]

Dan, I say go for it. Document your progress (and mistakes), take lots of pics, and post it to this forum. Will make for a "five star" thread with a large following!