Sawstop opinion needed

[Michael Ginsberg]

I am about to upgrade my table saw from my older Ridgid contactor saw to a new Sawstop. I am a hobbyist that likes good tools. I am spending a good bit of money on this, so I do not want to have regrets that I should have gotten the "better" model. I also don't want to blow money wastefully.
So..
Do I get the professional model 3 hp. or spend another grand for the industrial?
What I don't know, is industrial worth the extra money and will difference be perceivable?

Thanks for the input.

[John Coloccia]

PCS, in my opinon. The ICS is a beast and is really designed to run 24/7. The PCS will make you very happy.

[Bob Falk]

I have an ICS. I wasn't really looking for an ICS, but I bought it used and the price was right. I love it, however had it been the PCS I'm sure I would have been as happy. As I understand it, the ICS has more motor options for the industrial environment....beyond that, I doubt it cuts boards any straighter. If I were you, I would buy the PCS and spend the extra money on high quality blades. My $0.02. bob

[Sam Murdoch]

I am a hobbyist that likes good tools.

Thanks for the input.

I don't own the SawStop (yet) but having owned and used all kinds of table saws from 3/4 hp Craftsman to an 8hp Griggo Industrial sliding panel saw and lots of 3 hp saws in between, I can't imagine that a "hobbyist", even a 40 hour per week hobbyist, could justify the extra expense for an industrial grade saw. You could buy some very nice accessories or hand tools or Festool sanders, etc. with the money saved by purchasing the professional 3 hp model rather than the industrial model. The latter will be such a wonderful upgrade from your Rigid that you will never even think about needing more. Just my thoughts on the matter :).

[JohnT Fitzgerald]

Michael - what do you build? And how much? What sort of cutting do you do?

I have the 3HP PCS and I like it a lot. I had upgraded from an old delta saw and this is a major step up. I looked at a number of saws, and I know I would have been happy with either of the others I had looked at (the new Uni, a PM) but I am satisfied with this one.

The industrial version will get you a larger table and more HP. If you ran a production style shop, and/or constantly ripped 12/4 lumber, I would say the HP would be beneficial. Otherwise I would say that the PCS will do everything you ask of it. A good outfeed table helps with the table size, if you need a larger surface.

[Michael Ginsberg]

THANKS GUYS!!
I think you all may have confirmed what I had trhought... The professional is the way to go with all the extras (mobil base, outfeed table etc.).
The roughest wood I cut would be the occasional 12/4 oak.
That $1000 can go towards my Robust!!

[Steve Rosenlund]

I just recently purchased and setup my new SawStop ICS 5hp. Read my posts and check out the pictures. If you like nice tools, then you wont find any nicer than the ICS.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?181117-Got-my-new-SawStop-Industrial-5hp&highlight=

[Mike Heidrick]

There are far nicer saws out there than an ICS Sawstop. None with a brake. If you want a north american style tablesaw, you can buy the PCS and you will love it and most likely have no regrets. If you buy an ICS you will love it too and no way would you trade your ICS for a PCS and $1000. There is not a North American style tablesaw made I would trade my sawstop for. Go put your hands on both and make up your own mind. My opinion of the saws should not sway whats right for you.

[Thomas L. Miller]

Michael,
I've used both the PCS and ICS. I own an ICS. It is heavier and has a larger top than the PCS. I like my ICS a great deal and have absolutely no regrets over choosing it over the PCS. I figured this would be the last table saw I bought and the difference in price would amortize over my remaining years. And, if the remaining years aren't enough to make the math work, I won't care anyway. :D Whichever you choose, you'll have a really nice saw.
Good luck,
Tom

[Tim Janssen]

I'm a hobbyist and bought the PCS almost 2 years ago and love it. Put a Grizzly slider on it some time later and love it even more.
Good luck with your choice!

Tim

[Michael Peet]

Hi Michael,

I am also a weekend warrior, but before the PCS was introduced I was strongly considering the 5HP ICS. I hesitated because I was apprehensive about getting that beast down into my basement. Then the PCS came out, which as you know is smaller and lighter than the ICS, so I got one.

I like my saw but at times I wish I had the larger table of the ICS. If my shop were at ground level I would have had the ICS.

Mike

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi Michael, my first question to anyone purchasing a SawStop is the following

- is the safety function the primary consideration in your decision?

If it is, then I think you've made the correct choice by going with the PCS, it's a great North American style saw, and if I were looking for the SS safety feature I would make the same decision.

I do like the safety feature, to me it's the only significant improvement in safety in the NA saws for decades.

However.........................Having sold a General 650 cabinet saw to purchase a small Euro slider, you couldn't convince me to go back to a cabinet saw.

The small sliders have the same footprint as a cabinet saw, yet have so much more capacity and capability, along with accuracy and safety benefits.

I have the Hammer B3 Winner with outrigger and the 49" sliding table. It can crosscut a sheet of plywood, my cabinet saw couldn't crosscut more than 12".

I have the scoring saw option on it so I can have absolutely no tear out on sheet goods, veneered panels etc.

The outrigger can be removed in seconds if I don't need it, making the saw very small, or as large as I need. No bulky outfeed tables requred, yet if you want them they clip on and off in seconds.

It can straight line rip rough wood, a great time saver when prepping material.

It can use a 10" blade or 12" blade, which gives you a 4 inch depth of cut, usefull when processing rough material.

It does not have the flesh sensing capability of the SS, however the Euro slider has safety through design as the sliding table keeps your fingers away from the blade. Coupled with a 3 function rip fence and riving knife, ripping is safer and easier than ever. The accessory clamp for the slding table will hold material being crosscut or ripped, no fingers required.

http://www.hammerusa.com/us-us/video/hammer-k3-winner.html

The above shows a video of the K3 in action, Hammer build a model for the USA which apparently has the functions American (North American) wood workers want. You can also add options and accessories to customise your machine to your requirements.

Regards, Rod.

[Prashun Patel]

Pcs is plenty of saw for a hobbyist. I'm as active a hobbyist as there is, and it has plenty of power for me.

[Bob Falk]

THANKS GUYS!!
I think you all may have confirmed what I had trhought... The professional is the way to go with all the extras (mobil base, outfeed table etc.).
The roughest wood I cut would be the occasional 12/4 oak.
That $1000 can go towards my Robust!!

I am personal friends with Brent English, founder of Robust......best lathe on the market...and I am a Onewayowner. bob

[Craig Shilling]

I must also agree that as a hobbyist the PCS is the correct way to go. I had a Delta Contractor saw with a Incra Table Saw Combo on it untill a couple of years ago. I picked the SawStop mainly for safety. My shop is in the basement so getting a PCS down a flight of steps vs. the contractor saw model must also be considered. (used son-in-law and grandson duo) When I set the saw up, I found that not only should it be safe, but it is a high quality piece of equipment. I seperated the router section from the Incra saw system, sat it aside for a later project, and installed the table saw positioner and rails onto the PCS. Very smooth and simple operation. I would also mention that the SawStop service manager(Roger Garcia) and service department are as top-notch as the saw. I'm sure they will be happy to answer any of your questions, as they did mine. Also I might add, dust collection on the PCS is superb.

[John Coloccia]

You know, Rod, if someone made a slider that was targeted and sized to smalled items, I'd have one in my shop. I would love to have a precision slider that worked with the smaller, guitar sized items that I build all the time.

I'm betting that a lot of folks that aren't building cabinets day in and day out would love to have a small, but very high quality, European slider in their shop. Maybe someone will tap into this market someday. If I had the room, though, I would dump the SS for a slider in a heartbeat. Nothing against the SS. IMHO, it's easily the best non-slider-European saw you can buy. I have to think it's just a matter of time that SS enters the slider market, but as you indicate it's almost redundant as properly using a slider keeps you so far away from the blade as to make the brake irrelevant.

Just my opinion.

[Stephen Cherry]

if someone made a slider that was targeted and sized to smalled items, I'd have one in my shop. I would love to have a precision slider that worked with the smaller, guitar sized items that I build all the time.

I'm betting that a lot of folks that aren't building cabinets day in and day out would love to have a small, but very high quality, European slider in their shop. Maybe someone will tap into this market someday. If I had the room, though, I would dump the SS for a slider in a heartbeat. Nothing against the SS. IMHO, it's easily the best non-slider-European saw you can buy. I have to think it's just a matter of time that SS enters the slider market, but as you indicate it's almost redundant as properly using a slider keeps you so far away from the blade as to make the brake irrelevant.

Just my opinion.

Inca made a super precise little table saw with a sliding table. I got one of these on craigslist a while ago; small, but extremely well made.

I agree also about the irrelevance of the brake with a slide. Plus, most sliders have a good blade guard/dust collector.

[David Kumm]

You know, Rod, if someone made a slider that was targeted and sized to smalled items, I'd have one in my shop. I would love to have a precision slider that worked with the smaller, guitar sized items that I build all the time.

I'm betting that a lot of folks that aren't building cabinets day in and day out would love to have a small, but very high quality, European slider in their shop. Maybe someone will tap into this market someday. If I had the room, though, I would dump the SS for a slider in a heartbeat. Nothing against the SS. IMHO, it's easily the best non-slider-European saw you can buy. I have to think it's just a matter of time that SS enters the slider market, but as you indicate it's almost redundant as properly using a slider keeps you so far away from the blade as to make the brake irrelevant.

Just my opinion.

John, have you ever looked at the old Hammond Trim Saws? They are very small and really only do one thing, crosscut up to about 18". They were originally used to cut lead type and are great for smaller furniture work. Need some modifying but sell for a few hundred. I use it with a larger slider and would not give it up. Dave

[Will Rowland]

Perhaps I'm showing my ignorance regarding sliders (I've never used one; I've only watched the videos on the Felder/Hammer site), but if I need to rip a couple 0.5" strips off a board that is 1.5" wide and 4 feet long, how would the slider be safer than, say, a Unisaw?

[Rod Sheridan]

Perhaps I'm showing my ignorance regarding sliders (I've never used one; I've only watched the videos on the Felder/Hammer site), but if I need to rip a couple 0.5" strips off a board that is 1.5" wide and 4 feet long, how would the slider be safer than, say, a Unisaw?

If your Unisaw had the Unifence, and you wanted to rip using the fence, aside from the guard/riving knife issue it wouldn't be.

Now if you had a non Unifence saw then the multi-function fence on the slider is safer.

You can also rip with the slider, although getting 2 pieces out of the piece you posted about wouldn't be possible using the slider. However if you can use the slider your fingers are feet away from the blade.

The other option of course with the Euro saws is the feeder, flip the feeder up into position and you don;t need to feed small rips at all by hand.

Obviously there will always be exceptions, however the slider is much safer for many operations.


Regards, Rod.

[Will Rowland]

Rod - Thanks for the clarification. Clearly the slider is safer for many operations, but not all. I suppose I'll have to wait until the rumoured Sawstop Slider arrives...

[Michael Ginsberg]

Thank you all for your input in helping with my decision. I went with the 3hp professional Saw Stop, gas assist mobile base, overhead dust collection (free right now), the larger 52" T- fence and the 80 tooth blade for melamine, dado break, and outfeed table...
I figured the $1500 difference to the 5hp industrial could go towards my Robust American Beauty!

[Neil Brooks]

Ahem.

WOO-HOOOOoooooo !

Pics and thoughts, as soon as you're up and running, y'hear ?

[Kevin Groenke]

You know, Rod, if someone made a slider that was targeted and sized to smalled items, I'd have one in my shop. I would love to have a precision slider that worked with the smaller, guitar sized items that I build all the time.

I'm betting that a lot of folks that aren't building cabinets day in and day out would love to have a small, but very high quality, European slider in their shop. Maybe someone will tap into this market someday. If I had the room, though, I would dump the SS for a slider in a heartbeat. Nothing against the SS. IMHO, it's easily the best non-slider-European saw you can buy. I have to think it's just a matter of time that SS enters the slider market, but as you indicate it's almost redundant as properly using a slider keeps you so far away from the blade as to make the brake irrelevant.

Just my opinion.

John,

The you've just described the Hegner MK4 (http://www.advmachinery.com/p-30-accura-mk4-multifunction-work-center.aspx)....kind of.

223972

[Tom Willoughby]

I upgraded from the Ridgid contractor saw to the Saw Stop Professional saw and haven't regretted it. I think that you'll love it.

Enjoy it.

Tom

[John Coloccia]

John,

The you've just described the Hegner MK4 (http://www.advmachinery.com/p-30-accura-mk4-multifunction-work-center.aspx)....kind of.

223972

Okay, now THAT'S cool.

[Aaron Ledbetter]

Congrats!

You will love your new saw. I have the 5hp ICS. Definitely more saw than I'll ever need, but I can say that it's a joy to use :) I'm sure you will get just as great results with your new PCS.

Despite all the political rub with sawstop, they definitely make a killer saw... I was initially going to go with a grizzly, but the lady of the house was pretty insistent that I keep all phalanges in tact. (My career would suffer greatly if I lost fingers).

[jerry cousins]

I had a unisaw for 15 years - never had a problem, but this january got the ss 3hp professional cabinet saw - am very impressed with the machine - the tooling is great - setup was detailed & accurate - cuts are spot on with just a few minor adjustments - and they say it will save a finger - you 'll like the saw.
jerry

[John Coloccia]

John,

The you've just described the Hegner MK4 (http://www.advmachinery.com/p-30-accura-mk4-multifunction-work-center.aspx)....kind of.

223972

So I just looked at it. It would be worth considering if it was a real slider, but it's just a small table saw with a sliding table attached to it. A real slider is practically zero clearance to the blade. I think at some point I will break down and replace my table saw and jointer/planer with the smallest combo machine I can find. I really need a shaper anyway, so that makes sense to me. May even free up some room, actually.