Looking for Walnut or similar exotic wood to build a Machinist's chest

[John L Sanford]

Hey everyone, I'm new here. I found this forum looking for info on how to build a machinist's chest. I'm a toolmaker and I'd really like to do one of these things as a project.

I want to build something similar to a Gerstner & Sons. I know I need some pieces that are pretty wide; the largest being 10.5" wide and 26" long.

I found the Rocklers website and a few others, so I have sourced a good bit of the parts and possibly some of the wood, but I'm having alot of trouble finding it locally. If it was a last resort, I wouldn't mind ordering my wood, but I would rather hold it in my hands and see it.

I'm not really sure what kind of wood to use, but I know I like walnut. Somebody else suggested mahogany as well. My main objective here is to build something that doesn't look like the others, but instead, is special because I made it and used a more rare wood species than the stuff like oak I can get at lowes. Not really crazy about oak because it so common. Thing is, I need it to be 1/2" thick.

I went to a local plywood warehouse today. The had some walnut and cherry, but it was rough cut 13/16" thick. The pattern was almost impossible to see, and they wanted $5.40 a board foot for it. Still not sure exactly what type of measuring system that is lol. It was looking like $120 for two decent sized boards, which I would then have to take to a mill shop and get planed, thus wasting half of the material..

Help me out here guys. I want some good looking wood, and I don't mind paying a little for it, I just don't want it to break me. Like I said, it doesn't necessarily have to be walnut. just a darker wood that is good looking.

Thanks

[Stephen Cherry]

I'm having alot of trouble finding it locally.


What's your general location?

Maybe someone could let you know a good hardwood supplier in you area.

[William Adams]

Find a local sawmill / lumber yard if at all possible.

Check the advertisers here to see if any are in your area.

Check http://www.woodfinder.com/ --- hopefully there's someone local.

I'd suggest building two in parallel or a prototype at least --- first one out of poplar or something similarly inexpensive, the second out of the nice stock.

$5.40 / bf for walnut may be reasonable or even a bargain, depending on grade. To see the grain ask if it's okay to scrape it smooth w/ a pocket knife.

You could save money by jointing and planing by hand, or find a workshop at a school or club.

[Robert Chapman]

John - you don't tell us where you live so it's hard to direct you to a wood supplier. However, if you want to buy online try Eric at eric@bellforestproducts.com Tell him Bob Chapman sent you. They have 4/4 walnut - that's about 15/16ths of an inch thick and will need to be planed. We are in the UP of Michigan.

Walnut is great wood to work - it machines and finishes very well.

[John L Sanford]

I'm sorry guys, I forgot to fill out my profile. I'm about 20 miles North of Montgomery, AL, in a town called Wetumpka. Thats an indian name.

[John L Sanford]

I guess a better question to add to the original post above would be this: If not Walnut, What woods would be suitable for building a tool chest like this? I know some woods are softer than others or not as workable.

[Jim Andrew]

Walnut is a particularly good wood for building projects. Not too hard, but durable. And finishes like a dream with just clear finish. Look up Cooks Saw.com, they build sawmills in Alabama, and see who the nearest guy is with a mill. Or maybe the nearest 2 or 3. They should be able to fix you up with all the wood you need. A lot of woodworkers have a small hobby mill to supply their own needs, some sell wood. Some guys try to saw for a living. Pretty tough racket, wood is actually pretty cheap at this time. No need to pay over 5$ per bf.

[david brum]

What about some Hickory? It's a durable wood with a unique grain and should be pretty common in your area. A couple of guys here have done gorgeous kitchen cabinets with Hickory.



223414

[Bill White]

John, 10 1/2" boards are gonna be subject to a lot of expansion/shrinking. Most Gerstners are made from quarter sawn white oak which will lessen the tendancy. If you choose wood that is not quarter sawn, I would suggest that you build up your panels from 2 or 3 boards jointed an edge glued.
Moisture levels in the wood should be about 6 to 8 percent when you start the project. Cut the parts oversized, leave 'em to equilibrate for a week or so before you cut/plane to final dimension.
Don't forget the mirror.
Bill

[John L Sanford]

John, 10 1/2" boards are gonna be subject to a lot of expansion/shrinking. Most Gerstners are made from quarter sawn white oak which will lessen the tendancy. If you choose wood that is not quarter sawn, I would suggest that you build up your panels from 2 or 3 boards jointed an edge glued.Moisture levels in the wood should be about 6 to 8 percent when you start the project. Cut the parts oversized, leave 'em to equilibrate for a week or so before you cut/plane to final dimension.Don't forget the mirror.BillI drew up this little illustration to try an understand what you mean. Is this correct? http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd198/JSMachine/solidworks/wood1.jpgIf so, what kind of joint needs to be used to glue the panels together? If I don't have to chase the walnut in a wide size like that, it really opens up my options. Also, what does quartersawn mean?

[Bill White]

Yep. Your drawing accurately shows a glue up. Three narrow boards will move less than one wide board.
Quarter sawn wood will have the growth rings perpendicular to the "face" of the board.
Google "quarter sawn/flat sawn/rift sawn" lumber. There will be PLENTY of info.
Wood movement is predictable as well as troublesome. Don't wanna spook you, but it is a part of woodworking. The better you understand, the better you build.
Since this is gonna be a show piece, proper planning is important.
Back to the edge glueing:
A good straight edge can be glued (pva glues like Titebond II or III) will be all you'll need. Just make sure that the joints are true prior to glueing.
They should not require excessive clamping pressure.
Bill

[Paul Gallian]

John,
this is a little off topic but have you ever eaten at Fat Girls Barbecue and Cafe in Billingsley, AL-- great food!
Own This Business?
Edit Company Info (http://www.manta.com/c/mt51c29/fat-girls-barbeque-cafe#)






paul

[John L Sanford]

Yep. Your drawing accurately shows a glue up. Three narrow boards will move less than one wide board.Quarter sawn wood will have the growth rings perpendicular to the "face" of the board.Google "quarter sawn/flat sawn/rift sawn" lumber. There will be PLENTY of info.Wood movement is predictable as well as troublesome. Don't wanna spook you, but it is a part of woodworking. The better you understand, the better you build.Since this is gonna be a show piece, proper planning is important.Back to the edge glueing:A good straight edge can be glued (pva glues like Titebond II or III) will be all you'll need. Just make sure that the joints are true prior to glueing. They should not require excessive clamping pressure.BillOk I understand better now. I think that It may turn out a little cheaper, because walnut is not as expensive in boards that are not so wide. I can't really seem to find any that is already 1/2". I know rocklers has some, but I will be broke by the time I buy enough. I think a better alternative might be to by some boards and get them planed locally. What do you guys think? The only thing I hate is how much wood I am going to lose. Going from close to 1" all the way down to 1/2" is gonna be like throwing a bunch of money away.

[John L Sanford]

John,this is a little off topic but have you ever eaten at Fat Girls Barbecue and Cafe in Billingsley, AL-- great food!
Own This Business?Edit Company Info (http://www.manta.com/c/mt51c29/fat-girls-barbeque-cafe#)paulCan't say that I have. I will put it on my list though. Always up for some good bar.b.q

[Kent A Bathurst]

Three narrow boards will move less than one wide board.
I disagree.

Quarter sawn wood will have the growth rings perpendicular to the "face" of the board.
Google "quarter sawn/flat sawn/rift sawn" lumber. There will be PLENTY of info.
Qtr sawn will move less than flatsawn. The ratio between the two varies widely by species.

However - in some woods [white oak and sycamore are 2 that come to mind] the qtrsawn grain is the most attractive. But in many - maybe most - woods, like walnut, the flatsawn grain is more attractive.


Wood movement is predictable as well as troublesome. Don't wanna spook you, but it is a part of woodworking. The better you understand, the better you build.
All true, but I would not go so far as "troublesome" for this tool box. In fact, I would call it "no big deal" except the back, which I would call "not a very big deal". Looking at a photo of one of those boxes:

The sides and top have the grain aligned. Meaning, the grain runs up one side, across the top, and down the other side. All of the expansion for those parts will be the same amount, in the same direction. No issues there.

The front is full of free-floating drawer fronts. No issue there. The front also has an attached rail across the top and across the bottom. Those will want to move in the "wrong" direction, but they are pretty narrow in comparison to the case itself, and that won't be an issue either.

What I can't see is the back. However, the Gerstner website mentions that veneers are used. Perhaps they use veneered plywood for the back [or, most of the case for that matter]. The plywood would be a good choice for the back - it won't move. If the back is going to be made out of solid wood, then the movement has to be accommodated. This is the only "gotcha" in the box in terms of wood movement. It could be handled fairly easily by multiple tenons - say two or three. The center tenon is a tight fit, glued in place. The top and bottom tenons are a "loose" fit, not glued, and are pinned by dowels that go through elongated holes in the tenons.

Also - from a practical standpoint - how much will it really move? Here in Atlanta - which is not far removed from Montgomery - I would expect a 10-1/2" walnut board to move at most 1/8" over the seasons. I would actually expect it to move less than that- more like 1/16".



Since this is gonna be a show piece, proper planning is important.
Back to the edge glueing:
A good straight edge can be glued (pva glues like Titebond II or III) will be all you'll need. Just make sure that the joints are true prior to glueing.
They should not require excessive clamping pressure.
Bill


John - my point here is this: don't get too wrapped around the axle on the wood movement. In some casework construction, Bill is reasonably on target. However, the scale and design of your box is not something I would get very excited about.

Making the boards to use will be the big deal for you, since it requires machines that cost big bucks [or, develop hand tool skills on sharpening plane irons, flattening boards, etc.......that is one long damn road for a first-timer]. I'd suggest getting the boards put together for you by someone else.

Your price on walnut is not out of line, assuming it is a good grade. Be aware that there is loss when you get rough lumber...........you can't buy boards that are precisely the size you want, so they are bigger and there are scrap strips, and scrap end cuts. You can't walk into a store and get 10-1/2" x 26" finished boards.........they don't come that way. There may be knots or other defects that have to be cut around. That's the nature of wood. I keep my friends supplied with very, very nice kiln-dried expensive kindling in sycamore, white oak, red oak, walnut, cherry, hard maple, blah, blah, blah. Cut to length to fit in empty Bass Ale boxes, and dropped off at their patio door....I get their martinis in front of their fireplace in return. Fair deal.

Last point: You could do this: Sign up as a contributor here [a lousy 6 bucks], which gets you into the Classifieds section. Post a WTB [want to buy] for someone to make the boards for you. I will answer the ad, and my price will be unbeatable. Get on I-85 north, and you have 3 hours and 3 turns to get to my basement shop. But - I'd betcha you get equivalent offers from Creekers closer to you.

Good Luck.

EDIT: Just saw your last post. Sorry - missed it. If what you are aiming at are 1/2" boards, then make those notes in your Classifieds posting, and all us clever guys would instantly suggest starting with rough lumber that is 1-1/4" thick, and resawing [slicing] it in half on a bandsaw to make boards that are about 5/8" thick, then surface those to 1/2" and glue 'em up.

[Robert Chapman]

I've done some work with hickory and find it really challenging to work with. It is very hard wood and tends to give off really nasty slivers. It does have interesting grain and color and once you get done with it it's durable.

[John L Sanford]

Well I got my plans Saturday. I must say that this will be a difficult project to take on, but that's ok. I'm up for the challenge. I have always nailed everything together. The biggest change for me to accept is that I wll now have to glue this entire chest together, and the joints must be created with rabbets or tongue and groove type stuff. I am going to attempt to draw a solidworks file of this thing so that I will have a better understanding of how it fits together. I'll post some progress of the drawing as I go along.

[John L Sanford]

Here is the first of the design progress pics. This is the bottom, The lower rear panel, the two sides, and the two rear stiles. Pay no attention to the grain direction. Solidworks adds it in whatever way it chooses, and while there is probably a way to properly orientate it, I'm not sure how.

The bottom is white because I initially wanted to use plywood there, but I feel like the edge showing issue is gonna cause me to use walnut there too.

http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd198/JSMachine/solidworks/chest1.jpg

[Jerome Hanby]

I'm sorry guys, I forgot to fill out my profile. I'm about 20 miles North of Montgomery, AL, in a town called Wetumpka. Thats an indian name.

If you don't mind driving to Huntsville, check out the CL. I've seen walnut several times there. Just across the GA State line is a place called Eutree. They appear in the Birmingham CL all the time and they look like they have quite a selection and pretty good prices.

[John L Sanford]

Here are a few more. Now I have the center piece in the back, the upper rail, and the notch modeled in that will be the location for the floor of the upper compartment. http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd198/JSMachine/solidworks/chest2.jpg http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd198/JSMachine/solidworks/chest3.jpg

[John Miletta]

John,
Check out this Ma and Paw opperation I found her on the bay She`ll gladly take orders per your spec or bill of materials. She can be contacted through the bay..I have no affiliation with seller .She advertizes good prices..

http://www.ebay.com/sch/deer56hunter/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=&_trksid=p3686

More about this seller world page

http://members.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewUserPage&userid=deer56hunter

www.machinistchest.com (http://www.machinistchest.com)

...MC

[jason thigpen]

Another good wood option would be Mesquite. Dark in color, machines well, and is very durable.

[Prashun Patel]

I think quartersawn white oak is worthy of consideration. If the chest is constructed well, it won't look common - even if made out of pine boards (which is not an altogether bad choice either!).

I also submit that if you can, make it out of 4/4 boards planed to 3/4". Nominal 4/4 is the most common rough lumber dimension, and as such is easiest to find and often cheaper than even 1/2" stock.

If you want it dark, then walnut or cherry are great choices. Cherry will look pink at first, but will turn deep, brown/red within months or years.

[Alan Schaffter]

The question I have is though you say you are a machinist, you don't say anything about your woodworking experience, skills, and tools. Your questions tend to indicate they are minimal. That will make a big difference in the quality and durability of your chest. It could be quite heavy depending on contents- I know my grandfather's chest was. Some machinist skills, especially precision and adherence to tolerances, translate well to woodworking, but few machines, hand tools, and construction techniques do.

My suggestion is to first make a prototype chest from poplar or pine, before making expensive walnut dust.

[John W Johnson]

I'm sorry guys, I forgot to fill out my profile. I'm about 20 miles North of Montgomery, AL, in a town called Wetumpka. Thats an indian name.


Alex's in Lafayette will probably have some walnut that wide. And he can plane it to your finished thickness for you, at a fee. I am sure there are other mills or suppliers closer but this is the only shop I know in the vicinity. Ask for Curtis if you call. His number is 334-864-8514.

[Myk Rian]

Have you started to cut the wood yet? It's been 5 months.



My suggestion is to first make a prototype chest from poplar or pine, before making expensive walnut dust.
Trouble is, you only want to do it once.
The trick is to follow the plans to the letter, measure carefully, and make your cuts right-on.


I guess a better question to add to the original post above would be this: If not Walnut, What woods would be suitable for building a tool chest like this? I know some woods are softer than others or not as workable.
I used cherry. Got the plans from Shop Notes. Took about 3 weeks of pretty steady work.
Here are a bunch more pics of the process.
http://s938.photobucket.com/albums/ad222/MykRian/Tool%20chest/

237463

[Danny Hamsley]

If you are still looking for walnut, I have plenty.

[Will Blick]

Myk, that is a gorgeous chest, well done...
not matter how much time we estimate on small projects, multiply by 3, which is prob. accurate.. Considering the detail, 3 wks, IMO not bad...

this demonstrates the incredible time saving use of jigs, or pre jigged machines when you do a certain procedure over and over. But when ya make ONE of something, well... ya keep wondering how days turn into weeks!

[Justin Chen]

The bottom is white because I initially wanted to use plywood there, but I feel like the edge showing issue is gonna cause me to use walnut there too.



If you're worried about the plywood showing add a edge band or veneer. I normally use 1/8" for front and back to make the calculation easy.