What am I getting myself into!?!

[shane lyall]

It all started with a simple shoulder plane to fine tune tenons cut with a TS/dado. Now I've bought a few more planes...and some chisels..and..well you get the point. I sometimes find myself in the shop for more than a few hours before I realize I haven't used a single power tool!

For some reason I want to try hand cutting dovetails. I have several perfectly good Porter Cables routers and a Leigh jig but hand cut looks so cool. I guess im in hybrid mode now as I have some great old Powermatic and Delta stuff I can't live without. I have a mortice machine but found myself chopping out by hand today. Something about a straight, square, clean mortice makes me want to leave the tenon out so it will show!

I have a couple old backsaws from a miter box or something I've gained over the years. If I understand the process I need a rip saw to cut them don't I? I buy quality tools but don't want spend a grand on a handsaw. Is there a good saw for $50-$75? I know if I try it with a BORG saw I'll probally just get mad and set it aside. I've looked at Craigslist and found nothing. Ebay has a few but I don't know what to look for.

The tote isn't as importaint as I can turn whatever I need for a "gents" style and make an open style on my bandsaw. I would even take one without a handle if the price was right.

This is for me and customers pieces will mostly still get machine cut because I know I can do a better job that way. At least until I do it a few times. Then who knows?

I have some old, as in USA made old, Stanley planes that are great. A few Ward and Sorby gouges that are fantastic. Should I stay with those brands? Ok guys, what should I look for? Stay clear of? Sorry for the longwinded post but want to make sure you know what I'm looking to do. Someone point me in the right direction as I can hardly wait to get started.

[Darren Brewster]

You can get a Veritas dovetail saw for $65 from Lee Valley. Generally considered a super bargain.

[Jim Koepke]

Something about a straight, square, clean mortice makes me want to leave the tenon out so it will show!

That is a good reason to make a through mortice. The tenon can stand proud to add texture.

Darren suggested the first saw that came to mind for me.

My discovery on hand saws is that if you are going to use hand saws, you need to teach yourself how to sharpen them.


I have a couple old backsaws from a miter box or something I've gained over the years.

If you can post some pictures someone may be able to tell more about the saws. They may be worthy of fixing up and using so you can spend the money on something else.

There is nothing like the feel of using a saw that you just sharpened and it is cutting great.

jtk

[Bill White]

Check out this guy.
http://thesawblog.com/
Matt can/will help ya.
Bill

[Terry Beadle]

You can cut very satisfactory dove tails with a hack saw with a fine toothed blade ( say in the 12 ~ 15 tpi range ). Of course, it's a much better and easier to control cut if you have a dove tail saw specifically set up for that purpose. That said, any dove tail saw you buy, you are going to need to touch it up with a 5 inch double tapered file ( $5 from several sources ). It's easy, fun to do , and very satisfy-ing to see a kurf cut with little tear out the back side and able to split a normal pencil line no problem.

All that said, the dove tail saws from LN and LV and Wenzloff and Son etc... will give you great results, and a hand cutting experience to be experienced as a pleasure in use.

That said, you can buy a dove tail saw off the bay, send it to Daryl ( weir@grics.net ) and he will retooth if needed, sharpen and set it to where it will perform like crazy. Cost on the bay can be as low as $10 and up.

The thing you are standing on is called the slope....and for a reason ! Hoot! But it's a wonderful ride !

[Shaun Mahood]

Lee Valley also has a new gent's saw for $49 here (http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=67768&cat=1,42884,68511), I haven't used it but doubt you could go wrong.

[Garrett Ellis]

I have seen mentions of the Zona razor saws around the internet/in magazines, and a review by Chris Schwarz here:

http://lostartpress.wordpress.com/2009/05/12/little-teeth-filed-for%E2%80%A6-who-cares/

No experience though... I have the Veritas and like it.

[Don Jarvie]

I bought a Lie Nielsen Rip carcuss saw for a class I'm taking. I never used any good quality hand tools I can say this saw is great. It was 130.00 or so but it should last a life time.

I have a Disston backsaw and am debating to have it sharpened and fixed up for a crosscutting saw or wait and get a new LN once I gather the cash so I have both rip and crosscut covered.

[mike holden]

It all started with a simple shoulder plane to fine tune tenons cut with a TS/dado. Now I've bought a few more planes...and some chisels..and..well you get the point. I sometimes find myself in the shop for more than a few hours before I realize I haven't used a single power tool!


Welcome to WoodWorking! as opposed to wood machining. (grin)

Mike

[Greg Berlin]

Learning to cut dovetails by hand was the start to my slippery slope into hand tools. There was something I found so appealing of making a perfect by hand than with a machine which has no spilled over into everything. I'm on a question learn to do everything by hand just because. Not that I don't want to use power tools. It's like learning how to do math without a calculator. We learned to do math in our head and pen and paper even though a calculator can do it so much quicker. But there was something about solving a complex math problem without the aid of a calculator that made math interesting for me in school. Woodworking is the same way, however, alot of times, using hand tools can be quicker, more accurate, and 100000% safer and quieter than power tools. I w have the LV dovetail saw which is what I learned to cut dovetails with and it's a great saw for the money. I have recently upgraded to the LN Thin Plate Dovetail saw which I wouldn't trade for the world, but I still use my LV dovetail saw from time to time. Check out paulsellers.com and maybe purchases his DVD's and books if you want to learn some great hand tool techniques! I wish I had watched his videos before buying any power tools and I would have been a lot more selective with what I spent my money on and I guarantee my shop would have a fair amount more space in it.

[Joe Bailey]

After seeing one of those "you must be this tall to ride this ride" signs, I was inspired to pen this ...


1. There is no height requirement for riders of the "Slippery Slope"


2. Keep arms and legs behind cutting edges once the ride begins


3. At any time, riders should be prepared for sudden course changes which are an inherent part of the ride. These may manifest themselves as behaviors including old tool hoarding, an obsession with mastering particular techniques, or tool-making.


4. Slope riders may experience schizoid personality disorder -- eschewing personal relationships, and growing increasingly secretive.


5. Riders may experience light-headedness and feelings of euphoria when seeing or hearing delivery vehicles, such as UPS or FedEx trucks.


6. Riders should be prepared to spend all disposable (and some non-disposable) income purchasing "tickets" which will allow you to continue to ride.


7. Lastly, please wait until the ride comes to a complete stop before disembarking. Note also that the ride never comes to a complete stop.

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

I've cut dovetails, as Terry said, with a hacksaw. Works well. Just avoid the overly "wave set" teeth blades if you can - they can be a bit of pain sometimes, and leave a bigger kerf than you need.

The zona saws are great for somethings, but I wouldn't use one for dovetails on anything much more than a half inch thick, and maybe not even that. They can be slooooow going with those fine teeth and short blades.

[Don Jarvie]

There's nothing wrong with using a combination of hand and power tools. There are certain areas of WW that a power tool is more effective than and hand tool and vice versa.

[Jim Koepke]

There's nothing wrong with using a combination of hand and power tools. There are certain areas of WW that a power tool is more effective than and hand tool and vice versa.

+1 on this. My shop only has a few power tools, but they only ones I would consider getting rid of are the portable ones like a circular saw, router and sanders. Though I do like the belt sander for working on metal.

The ones I use are a drill press, band saw (very wimpy) and a lathe.

And how many neanders don't use a powered bench grinder or other powered system to maintain their blades?

jtk

[Mike Allen1010]

Welcome to the dark side Shane! As you've discovered, Dovetails are a key way-station on the down hill slide into hand tools!

IMO, more so than other tools, dovetail saws are a "you get what you pay for" tool. In the price range you mentioned, the Veritas saw (rip) is a good option - I think best suited for thinner stock, 1/2". It will work in thicker stock but could be a bit of slow going, just because of blade/tooth size.

It's a whole different technique/technology, but replaceable blade rip dozuki saws from Japan work well in this price range. Very thin, accurate kerf, but much, much more difficult to resharpen than a western saw.

Jim's comment above is right on target, learn to sharpen your handsaws is key gateway skill - with that ability you have other options to make affordable new and old saws work well.

The alternative is to spend more $ for a saw from one of the higher end tool makers ( Wentzlof, Bad Axe, Lie Nielson, Adria, Gramery, etc.). Again IMO, if you're going to cut dovetails in anything thicker than 3/4, a higher end saw is totally worthwhile - sharper, faster, better balance,etc.

Just my 2 cents worth. Enjoy the ride Shane - the first hand cut dovetail joint you do will be a satisfying experience.

All the best, Mike

[Greg Berlin]

I had bought a worksharp 3000 with a wide blade attachment and the veritas mkIII honing guide before watching Paul Sellers sharpen his by hand. I soon realized that I'm much more efficient, faster, and can make a good sharp edge in a matter of minutes without setting up honing jigs and having to change plates to different grits and all that jazz. Walk over the diamond stones, run the tool through about 2 minutes of sharpening and honing and voila, back to work. plus, it's easier to put cambers on the planes and sharpen shaped tools like gouges freehand. My shoulders are paying for it because I'll find myself literally digging out and buying older tools just to sharpen them and get practice. haha! Needless to say, I'll be selling my worksharp very soon!