PDA

View Full Version : Shop made dovetail saw



Mike Allen1010
02-07-2012, 3:24 PM
Over the last several years as I became more involved in working primarily with hand tools, I quickly realized I couldn't afford to buy all the hand saws I wanted. Thanks to the inspiration and coaching of a lot of folks here on the Creek, I started building backsaws based on my needs for current projects.

Over the past year I built about a dozen, and the thin plate dovetail saw below completes my till. My early efforts were not only ugly but pretty much unusable - I invested lots of hours in saws that ultimately ended up with plates with more curves than the Mississippi and saw nuts that only sort of fit!

Thanks to a lot of advice and insight from the truly knowledgeable and generous experts here on the Creek (thanks Ray, Klaus, Pedder, George etc.), I have gradually gotten got better over time, and I think this dovetail saw is my best execution to date -- not a fancy design but a solid user.

This saw was inspired by the LN thin plate dovetail saw and is designed/set up for accurate work in relatively thin stock (≤ ¾”).

The plate on LN thin plate DT saw is 10” long. My personal preferences for saw plates that are a little bit longer, as I find the longer strokes help me with alignment and accuracy -- so I built the Plate 12” long, with 1 ½” of usable depth beneath a ¾” wide, slotted brass saw back from Mike Wentzloff.


Saw plate is .015” thick, 1095 steel and I hand cut/filed the teeth from scratch: 15 PPI, Rake: 8°, Fleam: 5° and no set.

Handle is Birds Eye Maple with a pattern from Ray Gardiner’s Back Saw Net (excellent site!) and uses TFWW split nuts.

Even with a 4”, double extra slim file it was really difficult for me to accurately cut 15 PPI teeth to a consistent profile from blank steel card stock. I had a hard time getting the file to start where I wanted it and consequently didn't get consistent size profiles -- they're pretty terrible at the heel where I started, and got progressively better towards the toe where I finished.


If I had to, I think I could improve fairly quickly if I had a little more practice in hand cutting teeth (particularly something a little bigger than 15 PPI!); however, it's not something I really enjoy. I much prefer working from machine cut teeth profiles and focusing on the final shaping and sharpening. I only hand cut these because I couldn't find pre-cut saw plates in .015” thickness.


Even though the teeth profiles aren't great, the teeth are level and the saw cuts quickly and accurately even with no set. Admittedly, I've only tried it with really dry mahogany. As I put the saw to work I may decide to add some set down the road.


Although not to the level of the true craftsmen here that the Creek, I like the fit and finish of the tote with the other components and most importantly to me it fits my hand and works well.

I really appreciate the inspiration and coaching I've received from the true experts here on the Creek!


All the best, Mike



223002223003223005223001223004223006223007

Jessica Pierce-LaRose
02-07-2012, 3:39 PM
The usability might be the most important factor in a saw handle, but I think it looks great! The wood looks beautiful. I've got some maple I'd like to use for saw handles, but I know enough from the cherry handles on my jack plane to know that I can't keep light-coloured wood from looking gross.

Chris Griggs
02-07-2012, 4:14 PM
Dang Mike! Stop being so inspiring. That's really nice. I've never tried filing teeth in entirely by hand, and I have no desire to do so. Again, really nice work, that handle in particular is great.

Andrew Gibson
02-07-2012, 4:24 PM
great looking saw!
I had to re tooth my tenon saw a while back after royally screwing up when learning to sharpen it...
I used a paper template with lines on it the proper distance apart, and then I went along the edge of the plate and tapped at each line with a cold chisel. This created a slight indent for the file to start... It worked great for me...

Jessica Pierce-LaRose
02-07-2012, 6:00 PM
That was something I didn't mention when I offered my kudos - hand toothing a saw with a file is an annoying job, so nice work on that!

george wilson
02-07-2012, 6:14 PM
Years ago when I had to make do with far less equipment,I made a dovetail saw with teeth about like yours. I spaced the teeth by rolling a coarse rotary file down the edge of the blade,tapping it with a wooden mallet as I rolled it. This gave evenly spaced little notches of about 16 T.P.I.. It is easier to start teeth from scratch using a #2 cut triangular needle file. The file is fine enough that it doesn't hang up and skitter all over the place.

For a first effort,you have done very well. I'd recommend more convex curve on the top of the handle,a less tall pip in the middle,and more convexity ahead of the pip. Also,make the bevels much more pronounced. I see that you have access to the FAQ section where you could study these handle details.

The shape of the handle where the hand is placed looks very good,with the right amount of bulge where the palm goes. You might increase the size of the cheeks so the saw screws aren't so close to the edge.

All in all,a very functional looking saw,and you are well on your way with this first one. A lot farther along than some.

Mike Allen1010
02-07-2012, 7:43 PM
Thanks a lot George and Andrew , I really appreciate your advice! I'm not surprised you have solutions to my challenges with filing the teeth from scratch. The collective knowledge and expertise of folks like you here on the Creek never fails to amaze me.

George, I hope this isn't a naïve question, but any suggestions for where I might be able to fine the "coarse rotary file" and "#2 cut triangular needle file" you suggested -- are these typically available in woodworking catalogs or should I look more towards machinist supply sources?

Thanks again for the help.

All the best, Mike

Leigh Betsch
02-07-2012, 7:54 PM
She's a beauty! It's good to have a few people around to offer constructive comments because all I can say is it looks Great!

george wilson
02-07-2012, 7:59 PM
I got a set of coarse rotary files from Woodcraft in the 60's,but they don't carry them anymore,I guess. And industrial supply like Enco,or MSC stocks them. MSC also sells individual Grobet needle files in 5 1/2or 6" length.

The needle files Woodcraft currently sells are cheap,Chinese ones(or similar). If you want a good file to file 52 R.C. spring steel,you need to get a Grobet. I'd recommend Nicholson,but they might be Mexican now,too bad.

Andrew Hughes
02-07-2012, 8:03 PM
Hi mike,Nice looking saw,May i ask if you used a magnifier while filing your saw.I am planning on touching up my 15tpi saw this weekend.I have a hands free 2x magnifier but the teeth are so small.last time i goofed it up.Thankfully Daryl Weir fixed it.Now its time for touch up.Thanks Andrew

george wilson
02-07-2012, 9:13 PM
I am glad you take my advice in the right way. There is another member who has made VAST strides in his saw making. He sought me out in PM's.

Jim Koepke
02-08-2012, 2:27 AM
I really like the wood in the handle.


I used a paper template with lines on it the proper distance apart, and then I went along the edge of the plate and tapped at each line with a cold chisel. This created a slight indent for the file to start... It worked great for me...

I was thinking of trying something like this. Maybe on my next saw.

jtk

Mike Allen1010
02-08-2012, 10:52 AM
Hi mike,Nice looking saw,May i ask if you used a magnifier while filing your saw.I am planning on touching up my 15tpi saw this weekend.I have a hands free 2x magnifier but the teeth are so small.last time i goofed it up.Thankfully Daryl Weir fixed it.Now its time for touch up.Thanks Andrew

Andrew I use a visor with two sets of flip down lenses (I think LV or maybe Woodcraft offers something similar). For teeth this size I use both sets of lenses ; which I think is 4X magnification. I really need the magnification to see the little flats created on the top of he teeth by jointing.

Darryl is The Man in my book. I have lots of saws And am luck enough to have a couple from Darryl and they absolutely work perfectly. I'm not sure exactly what sets his saws apart but there is definitely something extra there IMO.

All the best, Mike