Steel vs. Cast Iron trunnions on bandsaw

[Chris Lee]

So i am getting set to purchase a bandsaw for mainly resawing and i have a question. I was looking really hard at the griz g0514xf. It has everything i seem to need, but i just noticed it has the steel trunnions. Is that going to be that big of a deal? I know i can just order it with the cast iron but i am trying to keep the cost down as much as possible. I looked at droppung down to the g0513 with all the bells and whistles, but i would really prefer the 3hp motor of the 0514 over the 2hp of the 0513.

I have looked at what else is out there and these seem to be the winner for cost vs performance. I have been looking daily for used but i am growing impatient with that.

Thanks,

[Bruce Page]

I think my MiniMax has steel trunnions. I never gave it any thought but I think I would prefer the steel trunnions over cast.

[Van Huskey]

For resawing in general I like power, my rule of thumb is 4 inches per HP so a 3hp saw with 12" of resaw is about perfect, this is a conservative number and you can get away with less but I like a resonably fast feedrate which for me results in smoother cut faces. If you plan to cut logs I would suggest the cast iron, if you don't plan to resaw logs or large heavy boards you will probably never notice the steel trunnions, you can always add them if you like. Unless you plan on the heavy stuff I would use the money to put toward a good resaw blade.

[Van Huskey]

I think my MiniMax has steel trunnions. I never gave it any thought but I think I would prefer the steel trunnions over cast.


The MM bandsaws have a rather unusual table support arguably not even a trunnion for their design I agree steel is a much better choice, the Grizzly has a more tradition trunnion design and cast iron is probably a better choice but one has to balance cost benefit.

[David Kumm]

Wheel mass and frame design are bigger deals when resawing than trunnion design. You want a stout frame to tension the blade and a heavy wheel helps dampen the vibration that is transmitted through the steel. If the resaw height is similar on two machines I would look at the heavier saw and judge whether that weight is where it will help you. Dave

[Cary Falk]

You probably won't need the cast iron trunnion. It will be easier down the road to replace the trunnion($90, part H8193) if you find it not up to the task then replacing the 2hp motor for a 3 if the power is not up to the task.

[glenn bradley]

I have the "tweener" G0513X (replaced by the G0513X2). The only differences in mine and the X2 are that I have steel trunnions (which use the same hardened teeth as the CI trunnions) and don't have the cute bear's head cutouts in my CI wheels. I have never had any deviation or flex in the table issues. Unless you plan to regularly cut boards that weight as much as I do, I see no issue. If you do, the CI trunnions are available for a reasonable price as an after purchase upgrade.

[Chris Lee]

The 514XF has the cast iron wheels, 3hp, bigger table and a foot brake along with several other goodies. I think thats the way im going. Mostly ill be thinning out spanish cedar for humidors and a little shop sawn veneers. No logs or anything real heavy.

[Mark Ashmeade]

If it makes any difference, I have steel in my G0513P, and I've had no issue at all with them. Had the saw about 18 months.

[Chris Lee]

For those with the 513, has the 2hp been enough for most resaws? Say 6-8" high? I have jet now with a 1 1/2 hp and i can stop the blade on 6" spanish cedar, which isnt that hard of a wood. I want to be able to turn 4/4 spanish cedar into 2 3/8" panels. Is the 2 hp 0513 strong enough? For that matter, anyone with the 0514, is the 3hp saw capable?

I cant afford a 5hp MM or Laguna and frankly will be using this pretty lightly and couldnt justify their cost anyways.

[ian maybury]

Barring the devil being buried somewhere in the details it's hard to figure how there would be a significant performance difference.

Cast iron is a better vibration absorber, but the sort of vibration that causes issues on a band saw doesn't seem very likely to be an issue with a small and rigid part like a trunnion.

Cast iron is likewise a better (more slippery/probably slower wearing/less likely to gall bearing material), but how often and how fast is anybody likely to tip the table?

:) Steel is tougher if you're in the habit of hitting your saw with a hammer....

Maybe i'm missing something???

ian

[Stan Mitchell]

has the 2hp been enough for most resaws? Say 6-8" high?

The most I've resawn on my 513X2 is about 8-9 inches - all hardwood, including white oak and similar.

With a sharp resaw blade - just push it through. It has plenty of power for my needs.

[Chris Lee]

I guess i have fallen victim to marketing hype. I assusmed as the cast iton trunnions were an upgrade as you went up ther bandsaw line with Griz, that it was a perormance issue. And i guess i can see it, with trying to throw a 200lb log on the table, but otherwise, i am guessing it wont matter.

I suppose power is the main concern now. I would love to be able to save some cash and get the 0513 as i need to buy a new jointer as well, but I just dont know if the smaller motor would cut it. I assume t he 3hp will be sufficient, but it seems many are happy with the 2hp. Ill have to think about this?

[Van Huskey]

2hp is right in my rule of thumb for an 8" resaw so you should be fine. For your use I would get one of the 513 varients AND get a Laguna Resaw King or a Lenox Tri-Master either in 3/4".

[glenn bradley]

Agree the 2HP has been adequate. I wouldn't pass up another pony though.

[ian maybury]

Just in case there's a detail reason why cast iron makes a difference on the trunnions Chris - maybe consider asking Grizzly what they say is the difference?

ian

[Chris Lee]

Oh yeah, a 1" resaw king is going to be ordered the same day i order he saw. If i break down the 2 saws they are real similar, except the 513 has a 2hp motor instead of the 3, no foot brake which i can live without i guess, About a 3" smaller table and about 40lbs lighter. Other than that, same guides, same fence, same basic design and the 513 is $1,095 vs $1,325 for the 514. That alone pays for the resaw king or a similar blade an maybe a couple bucks left over? I just dont want to regret not having the 3hp. Ive bought so many tools twice because i used to base my decisions on cost only, so now i always second guess myself when i make the bigger purchases. I am kicking myself for selling my MM16 3 years ago :o( I sure as soon as i finally make my decision, grizzly will be out of stock on the one i choose!

[Terry Hatfield]

For those with the 513, has the 2hp been enough for most resaws? Say 6-8" high? I have jet now with a 1 1/2 hp and i can stop the blade on 6" spanish cedar, which isnt that hard of a wood. I want to be able to turn 4/4 spanish cedar into 2 3/8" panels. Is the 2 hp 0513 strong enough? For that matter, anyone with the 0514, is the 3hp saw capable?

I cant afford a 5hp MM or Laguna and frankly will be using this pretty lightly and couldnt justify their cost anyways.

I have resawn white oak to the absolute max capacity of my G5013 with a thin kerf (.025) Timberwolf 3/4" 3tpi blade. I had an at length discussion with a TW tech guy about resawing with the G5013 and he is the one that recommended the thin kerf blade 3/4" blade and it has worked super! I'm sure that bigger saws would have gone faster but it certainly did the job to my satisfaction. I bought the saw when they first came out several years ago and I've really like the saw and never missed the CI trunnion or the CI wheels for that matter. IMHO, it is really hard to be the basic G0513 usless you are working with really big heavy logs. I'd say for the resawing that you describe as your main focus, that you could not go wrong with either saw that you listed in your OP.

These resawn white oak pieces are door panels for an entertainment center that are 42" long and a full 12" wide. Resawn on the G0513 with no issue.

222921

[Brian Weick]

Cast iron ,

What are you looking for as far as used?

IMO,

Look at Oliver,Tannewitz or Northfield...the older American made machinery.....they are in a different league entirely, .......

B,

[Stephen Cherry]

http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/mld/tls/2824268216.html

Is rikon a similar saw?, this one includes two resaw kings.

[David Kumm]

I would check as to whether the 1" resaw king is a good choice for the saw. It isn't nearly as strong as the MM16- even the older model. The 3/4 will require less strength to tension and while that blade doesn't need the tension a trimaster does the extra width doesn't mean all that much when resawing. Tension will help more than a wide blade will. Dave

[Van Huskey]

http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/mld/tls/2824268216.html

Is rikon a similar saw?, this one includes two resaw kings.

That saw might well be worth a look, the 18" Rikon is very similar in quality to the 513/514 Grizzlys and the blades are a bonus, I woul offer less though, if he bought the saw on sale he paid $1k.

[Van Huskey]

I would check as to whether the 1" resaw king is a good choice for the saw. It isn't nearly as strong as the MM16- even the older model. The 3/4 will require less strength to tension and while that blade doesn't need the tension a trimaster does the extra width doesn't mean all that much when resawing. Tension will help more than a wide blade will. Dave

I agree, I would order a 3/4" carbide blade for the 513 or 514.

[Chris Lee]

I looked at that Rikon, but in my opinion he is way off on pricing. That saw can be had new for 1100-1200 with Woodcraft's regular sales. And who knows how much wood has been put through those blades. Doesnt do me much good if I have to immediately have them sharpened. Dont get me wrong, its a nice saw, but I would be a buyer on his saw at around $800 or so. Maybe thats low but this is a made in China bandsaw. In my opinion they dont hold their value like the European saws. If Im spending near his $1200 I'll just buy new.

Note taken about the 3/4" blade. I hadnt even thought that the griz couldnt properly tension a 1" blade. Thanks for the heads up. I am trying to work out a trip up to the Muncy, PA store to play with the saws and bring one home. Right now leaning toward the 0513 for the savings and I might just be able to fit a new jointer in the back of the truck with these savings :o) So long as the wife doesnt know about it. Easier to beg forgiveness than ask permission.

[Rick Moyer]

Just a little warning, if you DO come up to Muncy be prepared to spend more than you wanted to. You'll be wanting a 12" jointer and a bigger bandsaw and a new table saw, etc....:eek:. Fun to look at everything though. I avoided the bandsaw section last time I was there, cuz I want one too but not yet.

[Stephen Cherry]

In my opinion they dont hold their value like the European saws. If Im spending near his $1200 I'll just buy new.

.

I've said this a million times, but I would just hold out for an Italian saw. They do come up, and if you decide to bail out, they hold their value.

[Chris Lee]

Thowing a little wrinkle in the mix here. I have still been going back and forth and today i saw t hat Laguna is selling a demo LT14SUV for around $1,300. I know its only a 14" saw but this appears to be a great resaw machine with a 3hp Leeson motor. Knowing the prices are should i grab that Laguna?

[David Kumm]

Look at the Griggio posted on deals by Stephen. Even better. Dave

[Chris Lee]

My concern with that is the 3 phase and buying the Vfd. And then getting it here from Michigan. Probably another 300 there? No?

[David Kumm]

Chris, once you go three phase you won't go back. I'm assuming no shipping for the Laguna? May be a wash. Keep in mind I'm biased. My smallest saw is a Yate Y20 and the largest is the Oliver 116. The Yates replaced a Laguna LT18. Dave

[Chris Barnett]

Selected the 514X2 for the heavy-duty trunion (a plus) expecting to do some resawing. Not much resawing so far, but it does very well on large log sections on end, trimmed for turning. Motor does not hesitate when cutting the big sections..... which is rather scary... The column is made of thin steel sections...not as rigid as cast iron. Seems like a good machine for homeowner/hobbyist.

[rick sawyers]

I picked up a LT14SUV form Craigslist yesterday--pretty much new out of the box for 1400, included 3 blades and the mobility kit. Got the 1 inch blade on it and have made 3 resaw cuts with the saw in 8 and 1/2 inch Fir. Seemed to cut very well. I like the 3 hp motor a lot--I am replacing a Jet 18 inch bandsaw with a 1/1/2 hp motor. This Laguna I think will be more of a saw for re-sawing. It's made in China so the fit and finish are no better than the Jet--nor worse. Not sure if I will like the ceramic blade guides--the Jet has the ball bearing ones and those seemed to work great.

The CI trunnion seems to hold the table better than the Jet--less flex.
I like the gas assist arm to help with the table tilt, but the best thing is the foot brake--so convenient.

[Chris Lee]

I have to say i am a little nervous about 3 phase, basically because i know next to nothing about it. The Laguna is 1325 with a make an offer, so id like to think i could do a little better, maybe 1200 or 1250? Shippinig is 99 and its a demo from shows, so i imagine it would be set up as good as it can get?

[Van Huskey]

I have to say i am a little nervous about 3 phase, basically because i know next to nothing about it. The Laguna is 1325 with a make an offer, so id like to think i could do a little better, maybe 1200 or 1250? Shippinig is 99 and its a demo from shows, so i imagine it would be set up as good as it can get?

3 phase is a very quick learning curve. A VFD not only gives you 3 phase but soft start, variable speed and electric braking among other things. Spend a few hours on OWWM in the VFD FAQs and another hour reading thtough your choice of VFD manual online and you will be ready to rock.

[David Kumm]

I have to say i am a little nervous about 3 phase, basically because i know next to nothing about it. The Laguna is 1325 with a make an offer, so id like to think i could do a little better, maybe 1200 or 1250? Shippinig is 99 and its a demo from shows, so i imagine it would be set up as good as it can get?

I'm not minimizing the need to learn about VFDs and wiring as there will be some wiring needed to route the brake micro switch etc. but the Griggio is much closer to $3500-4000 new and the Laguna is $1595 new. Worth a couple hundred and some time studying to me but you have to feel the same way. If in doubt you can hold out as there is always another saw. Dave

[Randy Henry]

I just picked up the 513X2BF from Grizzly after selling a Jet 18" that I had for about a month. At the Springfield showroom, it was somewhat of a daunting task deciding which one to pull the plug on. I thought I had made up my mind with the 514X2, but after talking to several people, I decided to go with the 513 as the almost $400 was better spent. I decided to go with the 513X2F with the manual foot brake, but they were out of stock. The saleman said they had the 513X2BF and they were only $30 more. I told him I did not want the motor break, as I just had one that failed on a Bosch miter saw. He said the BF model is not a motor brake, rather some type of a magnetic switch that does affect the motor windings. He said the foot brake is manual as in the 513X2F model. I was determined to avoid the "budget creep" as you have to stop somewhere and the salesman was seeing that. He goes away briefly and then returns with an in-store $50 coupon for purchases over $1000. That sealed the deal, so I ended up getting it cheaper than the X2F model. Got it home and I love it. I checked to make sure the break is manual by when the saw is off, I spinned the bottom wheel and step on the pedal. I can hear the break engage and it stops the saw. When the power is turned on with the key, I can hear the magnet energize, and it stops the sawblade very quick when I use the pedal or the off switch. Night and day difference over the Jet, as everything was perfect out of the box. Also, the BF model has a different style of fence rail, it has only a front rail which is chrome, and has knobs on the bottom to adjust the squareness to the table. Went to the St. Louis woodowrking show yesterday and got some Timberwolf blades for it. I used the Ittura blades on the Jet and just was not as impressed with them as I had been with prior use of the Timberwolf.