Why aren't plow / molding planes made reversible?

[William Adams]

If the central part of the plane was symmetrical and there were through holes for the fence couldn't it be turned around?

[Archie England]

Yes, to a degree. I've done with my #45 to cut a grove "backwards" to address grain issues. It worked but had a lot of wrong fence holds, so not ideal.

[Jim Matthews]

It sounds like a simple idea - are most plow planes set up with a fixture on the "outboard" side, to keep the mechanism aligned?

In practice, I tend to work right handed, and tear out or spelching are not common. FWIW - I liked Matt Kenney's simple plow planes, they were dedicated to fitting drawer bottoms.
No fences required for that.

[Matthew N. Masail]

I've also wondered the same, I'm sure they can be made reversible, so why not? to sell more planes?

[mike holden]

Reversibility is probably a problem with where the depth stop is located. In the LV plow, the depth stop is on the right, meaning that the groove plowed has to be further in than the width of the depth stop. The wooden plough I have, is a no-name, throws the chip up the center like a bench plane and has no depth stop. This one could have the fence reversed. However, the question is moot, as I have never run into a situation that would require a change of direction. A small amount of tear-out in the bottom of a groove/dado is not a great concern. If it were then the channel would be finished with a router plane.
The lack of left-handed ploughs is more likely due to a lesser number of left-handed people who demanded them.
Mike

[Jon Toebbe]

FWIW - I liked Matt Kenney's simple plow planes, they were dedicated to fitting drawer bottoms. No fences required for that.
Now that is a clever idea! Simple Krenov-style construction, no moving parts except the iron and wedge. Pretty cunning:

http://www.finewoodworking.com/item/19894/shop-made-grooving-planes

[Jim Neeley]

Regarding the LV products, their plow plane description says: "It is available in right- and left-hand versions to match your dominant hand."

http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=57678&cat=1,41182,48945

While their skew rabbit says: "The plane is available in left- and right-hand versions. You may need only the version that suits your dominant hand, though neither model is exclusively for left- or right-handed users. They are in fact complementary since having both lets you accommodate any grain direction."


http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=59999&cat=1,41182,48945

Truth in advertising: what a concept! :-)

[William Adams]

I asked, since it seems I need to be able to go in either direction, since I had problems w/ the grain when making grooves on my current project.

Also, my workbench is in a corner of the laundry room and storage is an issue.

Lastly, I've always been fascinated by multi-purpose tools.

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

while I've made grooves against the grain without too many problems - (marking the grooves with a knife helps at times if the grain is really funky) whenever I have to make grooves, I try and plan ahead enough that the grain will be cooperating with me when I get to that step. It's less of an issue a lot of time because a lot of the grooves I make would be something like rails and stiles, where I find straight grain looks most attractive anyway.

[Chuck Nickerson]

As a practical matter, making reversible planes adds complexity to design and manufacturing.

That complexity also increases the chance the owner will seldom (or never) use the plane.
It also increases the chance that after switch-over, something will be wrong or misaligned.

If you want to have fun, try making a reversible drawer slip plane from wood; then try switching
back and forth (as grain reverses) while using it.

Cheaper? Yes, but at a significant cost to functionality.

[Jack Curtis]

If your fence allows it, you could always work the wood from the other direction, fence on top rather than bottom.

[William Adams]

Well, for once I'm lucky.

Just got a Stanley 12-250D Combination Plane off the extremely Big auctiony site and darned if the (included!) manual didn't have the line:

``THE PLANE CAN BE USED FOR LEFT OR RIGHT HAND OPERATIONS.''

and if I understand the design, the fence can be mounted on either side.

Got 21 cutters w/ only 1 dupe, so just need to find 3 sizes of Fluting and I'll have a full set.

[Jim Koepke]

The Stanley site seems to have changed again. It makes it hard to find things.

Here is the page that listed the fluting cutters today.

http://www.stanleytoolparts.com/flutingcutters.html

jtk

[Jack Curtis]

The Stanley site seems to have changed again. It makes it hard to find things.

Here is the page that listed the fluting cutters today.

Jim, do you know why the 1/2" cutter is so very differently shaped than the other three?

[William Adams]

Stanley has the wrong photo up on that page (checked against the manual) --- makes ordering a bit worrisome.

[John Luke]

I'm left handed and always went without a Plow or combination plane. I had bought a Stanley 45 off Ebay to see if I could use it left handed. It was not comfortable. Sold that and ran into a Stanley 12-250 with all cutters but no manual. Looked it over and bought it. Even though fit and finish isn't as good as the older Stanleys, you can use this plane left handed. It may have a plastic tote but I love this plane. I wold recomend it for any lefties.

[Zach Dillinger]

Simple: they don't need to be.

[Bob Glenn]

I am in the process of building a Krenov style fenced jointer. It occurred to me that if I cut the front and back blocks at 45 degrees and placed the cross pin correctly, that I could put the iron and wedge on either side. This would allow for a board to be jointed in either direction if only faced on one side. Does that make sense?

[Zach Dillinger]

Bob, you could do that, but you will have problems down the road with wear. A 45 degree front ramp with no wear angle would open that mouth up very, very quickly. Woodies usually have a 75ish degree "wear" for a 1/2" or 5/8", then a 60ish degree front ramp to make it easy to get shavings out. With a 45 degree front ramp, your mouth would rather quickly open up and you wouldn't be able to patch it in the normal way and still use it as you intended. You'd have to resole the plane every time. Plus, it would mean twice as much work to fit and bed the iron, since both front and back would have to be flattened appropriately.

Honestly, all this talk of reversible planes sounds like a solution looking for a problem. Being careful and thoughtful with your grain selection will solve 99% of against the grain problems, obviating the need for planes like this.

[Matthew Kenney]

Since my planes were mentioned, I'd thought I'd chime in with an explanation of why I made a matched pair. I am able to use the right handed one most of the time by examining grain before I start cutting joinery. When making a drawer, I'm most concerned about the appearance of the front and then that the grain on the sides run from front to back so that I can plane the tails flush to the pins without tearing out the pins on the front.

With the sides, I can use the right hand plane almost exclusively even though I'm working against the grain on the groove for the side on the left (looking at the drawer from the front). I chalk that up to two things: 1) using quartersawn stock with very straight grain for drawer parts and 2) using relatively soft woods (like poplar) or really soft woods (like white pine) for drawer sides. It works in hard woods like maple, but the results aren't as good.

The drawer fronts are another issue. Those are always made from some hardwood (I use cherry more than any other cabinet wood). And I typically use slip matching when I have a bank of drawers. And I fuss over things like whether the grain is runs perfectly straight across, curves upward or downward, etc. I'll even cut drawer fronts out of larger blanks by cutting diagonally across the grain. All of that in pursuit of aesthetics. As a result, the grain on the back isn't always such that I can use the right hand plane and not get tear out (especially if there is any grain that dives down toward the front face). So, I made a left hand plane, too. I'm glad I did. It wasn't much more work and it comes in handy. By the way, after I've secured the drawer front to my bench, I can actually use my right hand at the back of the plane (so really both of my planes are used right handed).

By the way, I wouldn't make a reversible jointer plane as you described (for all the reasons explained by Zach). If I were to make one (and I doubt I would), I would make the body as normal and the just make the fence reversible. That would be easy to do if you bolted the fence in place. Just drill two holes through the body. That way you could bolt the fence on from either side (send the bolt through and lock in place with a washer and nut). To prevent wear to the holes, you could put some sleeve bearings in them (the I.D. of the bearing matches the O.D. of the bolt). But again, I wouldn't go through the hassle. Just spend a few minutes reading the grain before you start planing.

Boy, that got long winded. Sorry.

[William Adams]

Okay, I don't understand how grain selection is going to solve my needing to put pairs of dadoes into <4" wide boards which I then cut apart to make a case:

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(I believe the first picture will show that the top / bottom of the case are free-floating panels in grooves cut into the sides)

Unless you're saying that I should flip through the stacks until I find pairs of boards which have the grain on the edges running in opposite slopes? I'm having enough trouble just finding pairs of boards w/ reasonably straight and nice grain which are similar in tone....

[Zach Dillinger]

William, I don't see the dadoes, I only see long grain grooves. Score the edges of your grooves with a marking gauge (you should be doing this anyway, regardless of grain problems to ensure that you notice if your plane's settings change in use). This will prevent grain problems on the edges of your groove. If its really bad, go back over the marking gauge lines with a marking knife. I don't see tearout at the bottom of a groove as a problem. If you do, the way to solve the problem is to properly orient the grain for the first groove, and then reference the same edge for the second groove, using the long arms of the plow to "leapfrog" over the first groove. There is no reason that you have to reference the closest edge for each groove, which would force you to go the "wrong way" on half your grooves. It will also prevent problems if your stock isn't all perfectly the same width, a common problem for hand tool woodworkers.

Nice work by the way!

[Jim Koepke]

Jim, do you know why the 1/2" cutter is so very differently shaped than the other three?

That is a reading or bead cutter in the picture.

Looking at the part numbers and if it makes any sense, they have the wrong picture.

jtk

[Jack Curtis]

That is a reading or bead cutter in the picture. Looking at the part numbers and if it makes any sense, they have the wrong picture.

Thanks, Jim. Makes shopping at their site difficult. Guess phone ordering is still useful. :)

[Bob Glenn]

Zack, thanks for that thought. I was just getting ready to cut into the stock for the bedding angle. Bob

[Trevor Walsh]

Because flipping the neon side out didn't turn out to be as popular as certain pop artists from the 90's would have suggested.