1st miter shooting board - wassup!?

[Bruce Darrow]

Hi all

After struggling for years with inaccurate 45 deg cuts off both SCMC and table saw w/ either sled (admittedly lousy build) or miter gauge (hot rodded original), I finally built myself a miter shooting board.

I obsessed over its build - I'm comfortable with its design and construction, but it just don't work worth a tinker's dam.

I have tried shaving with both dry and dampened (water) end grain. I have both pushed and pulled.

I can't seem to hold the work piece effectively to the fence. None of the designs I studied before building mention applying a non skid surface to the fence, so I haven't (yet). Is this a good idea, or will accuracy be compromised?

Where I think most of my problem lies is in the plane(s) being used. I have a LV low angle block. 25 deg bevel iron that shaves end grain fine in a vise is essentially useless on the board. Too little mass?

A well tuned Miller's Falls (#9? - equivalent to a Stanley #4) smoother doesn't work any better. Wrong bevel angle? On a bevel down plane such as this, will grinding the bevel to 25 deg help? I have extra irons to play with.

My #5 Stanley's sides are off square to the sole, so that's out. My #6 Stanley seems like overkill, and it's set up for coarser work anyways, and not a Bailey or Bedrock design.

I've got a transitional Stanley jack that mostly gathers dust - worth tuning and trying?

I really don't want to shell out for a bevel up jack at this point - what did folks use before the advent of same? Something worked for them!

Thanks in advance.

[Derek Cohen]

Hi Bruce

Please first post pictures of the mitre shooting board and describe how you use it.

I assume your blade is very sharp and you have used a shooting board before. Yes/no?

Now, exactly what is the problem? You have not said. Off square cuts, cannot make a cut ... ?????

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Michael Peet]

I have a LV low angle block. 25 deg bevel iron that shaves end grain fine in a vise is essentially useless on the board. Too little mass?

Probably.


A well tuned Miller's Falls (#9? - equivalent to a Stanley #4) smoother doesn't work any better. Wrong bevel angle? On a bevel down plane such as this, will grinding the bevel to 25 deg help?

No, because the cutting angle is dictated by the frog on a bevel down plane.


My #5 Stanley's sides are off square to the sole

You may be able to compensate with the lateral adjuster. All that matters when shooting is that the *blade* can be made 90° to the side of the plane.


My #6 Stanley seems like overkill, and it's set up for coarser work anyways, and not a Bailey or Bedrock design.

I shoot with a #7. Sharpen that blade and give it a try!

Mike

[Robert G Brown]

If you can't hold the work piece to the fence maybe you are taking too thick of shavings. Non-skid is okay on the fence if it does not change angle of the fence. Stanley #5 may still be used if the lateral lever can adjust the blade enough to square it to the sides. I don't believe another plane will solve your problem.

[Derek Cohen]

I can't seem to hold the work piece effectively to the fence. None of the designs I studied before building mention applying a non skid surface to the fence, so I haven't (yet). Is this a good idea, or will accuracy be compromised?

Noticed this comment.

Non-slip on a mitre fence is essential! Otherwise the work piece will slip and either the plane will not cut or the cut will be skewed. Look half-way down this article: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/ShootingBoardsfortheLNHandtoolEvent.html


Secondly, add a running fence to the board for the same reason. Outlined here: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/RunningFencefortheShootingBoard.html

Regards from Perth

Derek

[James Owen]

A few things to try or take a look at:

Make sure your iron is sharp. If it won't peel shavings off of end-grain pine, you're not there yet. It's been my experience that a sharp iron will solve about 90% of all planing problems.

A (very) light cut on a plane with a tight mouth will often make a significant difference.

Mass is important for shooting planes; lighter planes -- with a sharp iron -- will certainly work, but more mass works more better. A #6 makes a good shooting board plane, as does a #7 or #8. A #5 is a decent choice as well; a #4 or #3 somewhat less so, because of the relative lack of mass.

Bevel up or bevel down really doesn't make that much difference....

Although it will slow things down considerably, take a look at clamping your work piece to the shooting board; that will keep it from shifting, and will hold it fast against the fence. As a couple of others have already mentioned, as long as it doesn't change the angle, some sandpaper or other abrasive on the fence will also help keep your work pieces in place and from shifting.

If you eventually decide that you do want to spend money on a dedicated shooting board plane, take a look at the LN #9 or LN #51. Both are excellent planes designed specifically for shooting.

[Sean Richards]

I like (and use) and #6 size plane on a shooting board. A plane of this sort of size and a sharp blade should have no problems end grain shooting. You don't need another plane. As mentioned above try a light cut with a sharp blade and maybe stick a bit of sandpaper onto the fence with double-sided tape.

[Paul Saffold]

You've been given some good advice in the above post. I used to use a #7 on my shooting board and it worked just fine. But my new LV LAJ works better. I think mostly because of the extra weight. Take very thin cuts. Good luck.

[Simon Frez-Albrecht]

I agree with all the statements above. I use my #8 for shooting. I used to use my block plane because the jack I have was broken and brazed before it came to me, with lumps of brazing on the sides. It worked okay, but it really hurt my hand and it was hard on the arm for much more than a couple of small pieces. I also agree with the sharpness comments. A plane that seems to be cutting fine on the faces of a board may be too dull to effectively cut on a shooting board.

[Roy Lindberry]

Hi all

After struggling for years with inaccurate 45 deg cuts off both SCMC and table saw w/ either sled (admittedly lousy build) or miter gauge (hot rodded original), I finally built myself a miter shooting board.

I obsessed over its build - I'm comfortable with its design and construction, but it just don't work worth a tinker's dam.

I have tried shaving with both dry and dampened (water) end grain. I have both pushed and pulled.

I can't seem to hold the work piece effectively to the fence. None of the designs I studied before building mention applying a non skid surface to the fence, so I haven't (yet). Is this a good idea, or will accuracy be compromised?

Where I think most of my problem lies is in the plane(s) being used. I have a LV low angle block. 25 deg bevel iron that shaves end grain fine in a vise is essentially useless on the board. Too little mass?

A well tuned Miller's Falls (#9? - equivalent to a Stanley #4) smoother doesn't work any better. Wrong bevel angle? On a bevel down plane such as this, will grinding the bevel to 25 deg help? I have extra irons to play with.

My #5 Stanley's sides are off square to the sole, so that's out. My #6 Stanley seems like overkill, and it's set up for coarser work anyways, and not a Bailey or Bedrock design.

I've got a transitional Stanley jack that mostly gathers dust - worth tuning and trying?

I really don't want to shell out for a bevel up jack at this point - what did folks use before the advent of same? Something worked for them!

Thanks in advance.


I agree with most everything that's been said already. I would say that a block plane is too light for my taste, but if the blade is super sharp and you are taking very thin shavings (which is really necessary no matter what plane you are using), it should work. Personally, I would use the #5 that isn't square. The need for the sides and the sole to be square is one of the biggest myths of shooting boards. All you need to do is adjust the blade so it is 90 degrees from the side you are shooting on. Just take some practice swipes and check your progress often, adjusting slightly as you go, until you get a square cut. Then you are good to go.

Also, some sandpaper or other material against your fence is perfectly ok, so long as it is put on nice and evenly and doesn't screw up your 45 degrees.

Good luck.

[Bruce Darrow]

Thanks for all the replies.

I've been putting a few of the suggestions to work, with better, but not great results yet.

Abrasive on the fence makes a big difference. I used self adhesive non skid stair tread tape that I had hanging around. No fuss w/ adhesives. Doesn't seem to have affected the accuracy.

If I was shaving work pieces, however, I'd be making a lot of unequal sized pieces as I fuss with figuring out A) how to register the piece on the board and B) checking for a square cut and adjusting as necessary. It seems I have to register the workpiece a bit off the toe of the fence to get any cut at all. If I intentionally cut a miter a degree off, I'm having a hard time figuring out where to register the point I want to shave to.....I would expect to be able to align that point with either the edge of the trough or the end of the fence depending on orientation of the miscut, but that doesn't seem to be working too well. And as I switch from push to pull, and need to adjust the iron laterally to square up, there is a lot of trial and error.

Like anything, I guess there's a learning curve to negotiate.

The obvious solution to squaring is test cuts on scrap, but it seems like a lot of fuss......What do those of you who don't have a bichen, square, bevel up shooting plane do to dial in squareness in a jiffy?

BTW, I've been working with the jack and smoother - the #6 fore will have to wait for a bit.

Y'see, there's this important sporting event that will be occupying my time this eve.......revenge will be sweet!

Later, guys. Thanks again!

[Terry Beadle]

Another thing to try and get good accuracy is to use post it notes on your fence and base to adjust the cut so that you get a perfect 90 or 45 which ever you are shooting for. David Charlesworth shows this technique in his video on shooting boards.

In short, your plane side does not need to be a perfect 90 to the sole. The post it notes raise or lower the work piece in the two directions so that you get a perfect cut.

Extra sharp blade = 1st step
Very light cuts = 2nd
Back bevel cut to offset the light forward cut so the spelch is minimal.

Another thing to consider is the actual work piece you are working on, species, and moisture content. Study these three aspects but in the end they are not as important as a sharp blade with a cutting bevel between 22 and 25 degrees so that final cutting angle is about 40 to 45 degrees. If you have good steel, then shoot for the 40.

[Jim Koepke]

I fuss with figuring out ... how to register the piece on the board

This is my suspect for some of your difficulty.
I have used planes from a #60-1/2 block plane up to a #8 with good results. So the size can make a difference, but it isn't the end all be all.

My preference is a plane like a #5 or #6, my go to for this is an LN #62. All of these have a toe that helps to register the work piece. Place the plane up to the work and held against the ramp. Push the work lightly to the toe of the plane. Hold the work with your left hand (if ritht handed) and push the plane back and forth a few times until no more cutting is taking place. Move the work again to the toe and repeat the steps above until the piece is finished.

Depending on how much shooting needs to be done it shouldn't remove too much from the work pieces. You can start with pieces a hair bigger than needed and then shoot to size for the fit.

Derek has an article about making a hot dog handle for planes on his site. Here is a post of mine about a handle for a #6:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?130114

At first my thought was to go vertical, but changed it to a traditional hot dog style. Others posted their work.

jtk

[Bruce Darrow]

Derek,

Finally had time to follow the links you provided. In my home, this is an investment in time, as I'm still stuck in dial-up hell.

I like the running fence concept.

Question: What is the purpose of the ramped board? I assume it enables a skewed cut. Correct?

Having struggled with getting a grip, I'm also going to explore alternate handling.

Great looking boards!

Thanks for your help.

Bruce

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

The ramped board, as you suggested, skews the cut, making it a bit easier going. The other thing that's really helpful with it is that it spreads the wear out over a larger section of the blade, which can be helpful if you're shooting the ends of a large amount of similarly sized stock. (Having a shooting board you can use the plane on either side of, can also help here with thinner stock - when the blade is too dull to use on one side, go over to the other - flipping the plane means you use a different part of the iron.)