Scraper Recommendations for End Grain Boxes

[Jeremy Leasure]

Let's pretend I have no scrapers at all, and want some nice quality ones to do "Raffan style" end grain boxes. I need a square end, round end and possibly an asymmetrical round end. What sizes should I get? I'm guessing most end grain boxes don't get bigger than 3" around, right?

[Curt Fuller]

You'll get all kinds of different responses to this question. But if it were me, I would buy a few sizes of these Thompson scrapers that come as just a basic piece of very good quality steel with a tang for a handle. Make yourself some nice "signature" handles and then you can grind them to any shape or angle you like. Any scraper (or any turning tool for that matter) that you can buy will gradually morph into whatever you grind it to. But these are exceptional quality steel for the money.

http://www.thompsonlathetools.com/tooltype.asp?TYPE=SC (http://www.thompsonlathetools.com/tooltype.asp?TYPE=SC)

[Mike Peace]

I have made quite a few lidded boxes, most with a diameter of less than 3". My two main scrapers were reground from scrapers in the HF set that are 1/2" X 1/4". One I ground square and the other ground with some edge on the side. They have both done well. I recently bought the PSI two round nosed scraper set. They are both more like the larger round scraper Raffan uses and have less chatter than my smaller HF scraper.

I can't argue that Doug Thompson's scrapers are not superior ( I have a DT BG and Detail SG) so if you want excellent tools and can afford them, go for it. If you are on a budget or just don't want to spend that much, you might look at this one http://www.pennstateind.com/store/LX140.html and the LX110.

[David E Keller]

I've not yet ventured into Thompson's scrapers, but I have several of his other tools from the same steel, and I'm pleased with them. I've got some cheap HSS scrapers that I bought off eBay, and they've served me well in limited action. I've got one mongo Sorby scraper that is my favorite... The extra mass from the thick steel(1/2") really makes it a pleasure to use. If you're looking at making deep end grain boxes, the extra mass from a thick scraper is helpful when reaching out over the rest.

Don't forget that you can use just about any hollowing tool to make those boxes... They're basically all scrapers anyway. If your sole use for the scraper is for endgrain boxes, you might get more mileage out of a hollowing tool since it could be used for hollowing as well. In fact, you can make your own boring bars and buy the HSS cutter from Enco and others for very little cash. I've done several endgrain boxes with just my hollowing tools.

[Nathan Hawkes]

Curt's response is a good one. I personally have a couple of 2030 ASP scrapers that I got used, a Pro-PM tool, as well as some "plain" HSS scrapers. Honestly I haven't found a huge amount of difference between the two. With dry end grain, you're going to have to sharpen (meaning hone, not grind) any tool frequently. I have a Makita wet sharpener with 1000 and 4000 grit stones. I use the 1000 more often. At any rate, the steel you pick is less important than the thickness and the grind you put on the tool. I don't have any need for a plain round nosed scraper quite honestly. I find I can do everything I need with an assymetric grind tool that I can with an even round nosed tool, and just buy the one scraper. I bought a Woodcraft brand "mega scraper" or similar name. I can't remember what exactly it was called, and I don't see it on their site anymore. Apparently it was discontinued. It is extremely long, like 14-16" of tool length, 1 1/8" wide, and 5/8" thick. It is a little much for very small boxes, but the heft makes it extremely resistant to chatter and vibration. I've ground it asymmetrically not unlike the gouges that bear Raffan's name. That shape works best for round bottomed box work. I also have a 3/4" asymmetric scraper that I use occasionally. If I had unlimited resources, I might buy a 1 3/8" scraper as well, same profile. Because the extra long one is so sturdy, it does everything I need. I actually bought it for bowl bottoms then learned how to properly use a traditional grind bowl gouge. It was sitting unused on the tool cart when I decided to re-purpose it. :) Whatever tool you buy you can grind to the shape you want. A thickness of at least 5/16 for tools up to about an inch wide and 3/8" for wider tools should suit you just fine. My heavy one takes quite a bit of time on the grinder with so much steel to remove. I generally grind the main bevel waay back and sharpen on a second, shorter bevel.
For square bottoms, I have a 3/4" 2030 hamlet square scraper, and a Henry Taylor 3/8" heavy duty scraper, 9" long blade. The extra length is a must for this tool with deep boxes. A 6" scraper gets squirrely near the bottom. I junked the tiny matchstick handle for a thicker one. Even though it is quite a bit smaller, I use the smaller tool more often. Again, you can grind the shape you need. A corner angle of 88-89 degrees is much more useful than a 90deg. corner when working way out over the tool rest.

[Reed Gray]

Well, for roughing, I use my Kelton hollowing tools, and generally the smaller ones. I can get a fairly good finish cuts with them as well. For best resuots, I like the Eliminator, a carbide concave disc at a shear angle, and generally I can get a better cut if it is in my Monster set up. Hollowing boxes is very similar to doing hollow forms. They are more open, and you can see better what you are doing. I used to try to do boxes with flat bottoms, and square inside bottom corners, and those have evolved to more bowl type gentle curve bottoms. They just look and feel better. More of a soft flowing form than sharp angular form. I seldom go beyond 2 inches as wood movement makes the lids and bodies change shape, and go oval. As long as top and bottom are made from the same piece, not much of a problem as they move at almost identical rates. Two different wood species used for contrast might make that a lot more difficult.

robo hippy

[Bill Wyko]

Check out the line up at Glaser. Simply put, the finest tools made by far.
http://www.glaserhitec.com/shop/

[Richard Jones]

Check out the line up at Glaser. Simply put, the finest tools made by far.
http://www.glaserhitec.com/shop/

Well, I guess everyone is entitled to their opinion, eh?

Rich

[Bill Wyko]

PM me for the facts if you like. I can give you comps on other tools too but I don't want to start anything here. I do have info that will explain my opinion thoroughly.

[Anthony Cayll]

I second that Bill. Glaser's the way to go. im not sure why everyone is against Glaser, but it's the only way to go.

[Bill Wyko]

I'm going there next week. I'll get to see the opperation first hand and meet the people behind the tools. I can't wait.

[Richard Jones]

I have Henry Taylor, Thompson, Sorby, BB's, and a whole slew of Craftsmans (they come in really handy when I need to grind a special shape).

I use the Henry Taylor mostly for boxes, it's a 3/4" extra heavy, and I shaped it with a slightly more than slight radius. I use it for 90% of the interior scraping on boxes. Good heavy tool, and I made a big handle for it that helps dampen some vibration. To me, the Thompson stays sharper longer, with the Taylor a close second, then the Sorby, BB's, Craftsman in the rear.

You could probably get by with just a teardrop if you needed to.

Rich

[Richard Jones]

I second that Bill. Glaser's the way to go. im not sure why everyone is against Glaser, but it's the only way to go.

If that's directed towards me, let me correct you. I am not "against" Glaser. Nor am I against Thompson, Sorby, Benjamin's Best, or (fill in whatever you like)....... I'm sure they're fine tools. But to say "the finest tools made by far" or "the only way to go" is just silly and childish. It's simply your opinion, just like if you were to say that Oneway/Robust/Powermatic/etc. makes the "best" lathe. Silly. If you think they are the best, fine, I will support your right to buy what you want. Inferring that all other tools, and therefore, the owners of those tools, are inadequate, doesn't seem very neighborly and borders on downright rude.

Rich

[Bill Wyko]

Absolutely nothing is directed at anyone as a person or to be taken personally. I have a great respect for everyone here, you included. This is based strictly on quality, materials used, innovation, tollerances and customer service. Also on tools which I own.(Glaser, Thompson, Crown, Robert Sorby, Keith Clark and a few others I can't think of off the top of my head.) There are many quality tools made for turning in a wide price range and style. It really depends on what is ones priorities. I have never had anything bad to say about other tools or anyone here and consider SMC to be a great place. That said, this is my opinion from experience with the brands I own. So please don't look at my opinion as a personal attack on anyone or any brand. My opinion is based strictly on facts I have encountered from real use of these tools. I may sugest you examine the actual quality of the tools and put the name brands aside. I have no intention on continuing on this thread out of respect for SMC and the members here. I understand we all have our opinions and are passionate about our tools but by no means is there any disrespect ment towards my friends here. Again, put the name brands aside and really look at the tools from the outside looking in. You may at least consider why I feel the way I do even if you don't agree.

On a lighter note, go to off Topics for my ribs, pork butt and brisket recipes for the big game. Try them and you'll love me like family.

[Anthony Cayll]

No, that was not directed towards you. I never said that all other tools and their owners are inadequate. No reason to put words in my mouth. Sorry to have hurt your feelings.

[Anthony Cayll]

Yeah, Paulo told me that you were coming there.My wife and I are planning on going to Glaser in April. Have fun.

[Curt Fuller]

Absolutely nothing is directed at anyone as a person or to be taken personally. I have a great respect for everyone here, you included. This is based strictly on quality, materials used, innovation, tollerances and customer service. Also on tools which I own.(Glaser, Thompson, Crown, Robert Sorby, Keith Clark and a few others I can't think of off the top of my head.) There are many quality tools made for turning in a wide price range and style. It really depends on what is ones priorities. I have never had anything bad to say about other tools or anyone here and consider SMC to be a great place. That said, this is my opinion from experience with the brands I own. So please don't look at my opinion as a personal attack on anyone or any brand. My opinion is based strictly on facts I have encountered from real use of these tools. I may sugest you examine the actual quality of the tools and put the name brands aside. I have no intention on continuing on this thread out of respect for SMC and the members here. I understand we all have our opinions and are passionate about our tools but by no means is there any disrespect ment towards my friends here. Again, put the name brands aside and really look at the tools from the outside looking in. You may at least consider why I feel the way I do even if you don't agree.



Bill, I think you're probably dead on absolutely right about the Glaser tools. I can find no reason to not think they are as good a turning tool as money can buy. But I'm the kind of person that gets a big bang out of little things like shaping my own tool edges, turning my own handles, and ultimately having a tool that is unique to me. I have to wonder how many tool makers have ever given any thought to selling their other tools unhandled, unsharpened, and unshaped. I would like to buy a Doug Thompson V or U gouge that is just the raw steel with no grind and then work it to what I like. Same with a spindle gouge. I rarely use a new tool without working it over on the grinder first anyway. That's why I suggested Doug's unshaped scrapers, not because I think they're the best but because they give you the opportunity to make them work the way you like them. Sure, you could do the same with a nice Glaser tool, but that would defeat the purpose of paying that high dollar price for it.