Tenon saw re-work - Logs and Lumber Sawmill in York, NE

[Randy Clements]

I picked up a neat little backsaw from an antique shop for a song and decided it needed a little help. It was 13tpi crosscut and I really wanted it to cut tenon cheeks, as it has a fairly deep sawplate (almost 4"). I looked around the web for saw service, and found a shop in York, NE that does re-toothing, sharpening, setting, etc. The place is www.logsandlumbersawmill.com (http://www.logsandlumbersawmill.com) - I clicked the Sharpening link and found their prices reasonable.

I e-mailed them and got good information from a guy named Jim, who was able to identify it as a Disston-type backsaw. It has a Montgomery Ward (Wards-Master) etching on the sawplate, and a Warranted Superior medallion. He was very good to work with, and as I'm a new woodworker, offered some advice. I was wanting to get it cut to 10tpi full rip, but he asked if I'd had any experience sawing with full rip. He recommended since I'm new, it might help me if he did a half-rip filing, as it was easier to control. So I took his advice, and sent things in.

They do their sharpening on Friday, so they should be working on it likely today and have it shipped back out soon. I'll give a full review once I receive it back!

two before shots:
222441

222442

[Joshua Byrd]

That should be a fine little user once you get it back. Looks quite similar to one that I just recently refurbished. After cleaning the plate, I didn't see an etch, but it does have the Disston Keystone warranted superior medallion, so it's at least Disston-made.

I don't think I posted images on this forum of it yet, so here are a couple:

Before:
222444

After:
222445
222446

[David Weaver]

$3.50 to retooth a saw. Boy do I wish I lived close to them. Well, a wish that's water under the bridge. I could've saved money on files, totally without any regard to even thinking abou the time I've spent moving misshapen teeth around with files.

[Jim Koepke]

Randy,

Welcome to the Creek. Are you in Nebraska?

I have a Disston from about the same era. It is a decent saw, but the steel seems a touch softer than most of my other saws.

The handle has been modified to fit my hand, but nothing like the treatment Joshua did to his.

Joshua's handle is an inspiration and may be something to try for practicing saw handle shaping. Just as soon as about 50 other projects are out of the way.

jtk

[Randy Clements]

Not Nebraska, but a fairly near neighbor from Idaho. I sent it Priority Mail for about 15 bucks round trip. Made up a return label and included it in the box.

[Randy Clements]

Just wanted to follow up.


I sent the saw on the 28th of Jan and received it back the 23rd of Feb. ALMOST a month, but not quite. I had to send e-mail quite a few times to get updates. There were many excuses, too cold, equipment not working, funeral to attend, etc. It came back with almost an inch in depth removed from the sawplate! I bought this saw because it still had a deep sawplate -- almost 4" -- and I wanted to cut deep tenons with it. I don't know if I can even cut 3" now without bottoming out on the back.


He said he wasn't happy with the sharpening job -- he called it "calves and cows". But sent it back and said I could try it out and see if it would work for me. He also said I could send it to be sharpened again and he'd work it out to be better next time. It does indeed seem to have large gullets and small gullets alternating for some of the length. I'll have to post some before and after pictures.


Because he felt bad, he threw in another saw as a gift. It's a nice gesture for having my saw for so long and he said it was filed the way (10tpi rip) he wanted my saw to be. I don't like to look a gift horse in the mouth, but the toothline is bent pretty bad in a couple spots, and the saw wants to therefore bind in the cut. Makes it no good for me.


My saw cuts worse than before. And now it's missing almost an inch of depth. I'm ready to give up on it now and look for another.

[Joe Bailey]

Sorry to hear of your troubles - but keep looking - there are thousands of similar (and nicer) saws out there.
And thanks for following up, for anyone else considering using this particular service.

[Chris Griggs]

Sorry to hear that Randy. Sounds really frustrating. I wonder why they cut so much off and if they did indeed cut fresh teeth its pretty lame that you still ended up with misshaped teeth. I know that saw is now too shallow for what you want to do but out of curiosity have you tried using is? How does it cut? Can you post a pic of the current tooth line and saw. Be interested to see how bad a case of calves and cows/big tooth, little tooth it has.

Hopefully you can find another decent user in better shape, and find someone who can do a good job just reshaping and refiling the teeth. Best of Luck!

[John Powers]

Your guy sounds like my "blacksmith". Sure I can make you a froe. I picked it up and the blade is ok but the socket is 3/4 of an inch. You either have a handle made of all thread, very traditional no doubt, or have a 3/4 inch wood handle that will snap first time you try to split (or is it rive?) anything of any diameter. I can find a welder to weld a piece of pipe for a socket or just click on Highland Hardware and buy a froe.

[David Posey]

Is it possible that the plate wasn't seated fully in the back of the saw when you sent it to him? I'm just trying to figure out how you could loose that much sawplate. Even if you took off a big bite to reshape the teeth, you should be able to get them looking good without eating up much more of the plate.

[Randy Clements]

No, the back had to have been fully seated. I have pictures of the saw from before I sent it. I'll post both again. The sawplate marking had almost a full inch between it and the toothline. Now the toothline is right up almost to the marking...

The toothline is straight as an arrow. It just doesn't cut well, very grabby and doesn't want to track straight at all. I spent a good 10 minutes with both saws doing test cuts. My ACE hardware Chinese mitre box saw cuts better than these two, unfortunately.

[Steve Friedman]

Randy,

That's a shame. This will sound strange, but I think the problem is that their prices are way too low. I do not sharpen my own saws (yet), so I know what it costs to have it done, and $10 to have a saw re-toothed and sharpened is a fraction of what it costs to hire a quality sharpener. Sometimes when it sounds too good to be true . . .

There are some excellent sharpeners around, but not at those prices.

Steve

[David Posey]

Even if this one won't do the depth of cut you want, I'm sure you can still get some use out of it if the plate is straight. Is it tracking consistently to one side? If so, stone that side a few times and see if it tracks straighter. If it's generally wobbly, then it's probably got too much set on both sides. If you post pics of it now it'd help diagnose why it won't cut right.

[Randy Clements]

Before
https://s3.amazonaws.com/ljimg/m0af3gv.jpg

After
https://s3.amazonaws.com/ljimg/m0af54y.jpg

Calves and cows
https://s3.amazonaws.com/ljimg/m0af692.jpg

[Chris Griggs]

Wow! That's really bad! You lost all that plate and still ended up with very uneven filing job. Those are some seriously mishaped teeth. All I can say is that sucks, and I'm sorry that happened.

[Mark Dorman]

geez that is a bummer man. You gotta be thinking I could have done better myself; and I bet you can.
now would be a good time to study up on saw sharpening and turn it back into a good user saw.


Mark

[Maurice Ungaro]

Sheesh! Looks like something I could do....

[Randy Clements]

Well, I did receive an e-mail from the gentleman to ask how it worked out for me. I had this to say:


I was surprised at how much sawplate you ended up having to remove. How many times did you have to re-cut everything? Were you losing/breaking teeth setting it and having to re-do? There's almost a full inch of sawplate gone. What I liked about the saw before was that the plate was still quite deep. I can't cut the deep tenons I had hoped before bottoming out.

I've done test cuts, and yeah it sort of works for other things. The other saw was a really nice gesture, thank you also for that. Maybe it's because I'm a newb, but it really wants to bind in the cut. Sawplate seems pretty wavy as well on that guy. Thanks again, Jim. I do appreciate what you did, but I probably won't be going down this road again. I now have 50 dollars into this and have a couple of saws that 'sort of' work for my needs.

My eastern saw is really working out well for me in the meantime. Who knows, maybe I'll make the jump to pull saws instead. It cuts fast, with a thinner kerf, and the more I use it, the more I like it.


I have not heard back in a day since I sent that. Sent him a link to the thread as well.

[george wilson]

The trouble seems to be that any goofus can hang out a shingle as a saw sharpener. It is getting more and more difficult to get competent filing done,it seems. Years ago we could send saws out to a large hardware store in Richmond. Then,they started sending back saws all fouled up. I,as toolmaker had to get the boss to issue an edict that all saws must be sent to US to be sharpened. Either that,or let all our museum made custom saws get ruined.

No reason at all to take 1" off a saw!! When we'd send out jointer blades to be ground,they'd come back 1/8" narrower. No need for that,either. A few grinds and we'd have to buy expensive new blades. I went to using Dispoz-a-blade blades. Cost less than a re grind,and I didn't have to buy $100.00 blades all the time.

[Jim Koepke]

I do not consider myself a great saw sharpener.

I do think I do a much better job than what is in the picture.

jtk