Basic tools for brass working?

[Federico Mena Quintero]

The other day I made a wall-hung shelf for my mom's bathroom. I didn't have hardware for hanging, but I did have a spare, brass door hinge. So I cut two rectangles from one of the leaves of the hinge, reused the existing holes in them, and drilled a couple of new holes for screwing against the wood. I filed them nice and round, and they turned out reasonably handsome. Sorry, I didn't take pictures :(

Seeing George Wilson's, Derek Cohen's, and Harry Strasil's work here, plus having my humble hangers work out fine, has got me hooked into making little brass hardware. I'm thinking screws and nuts (for planes? for saws?); maybe custom pieces for whatever tools I decide to make.

What is the basic equipment I would need? I know exactly nothing about metalworking :) Does one use a mini-lathe to make screws? What do I need to solder/braze brass pieces (not even sure about the difference between those operations)?

Thanks!

[Jim Koepke]

I am in the same quest for knowledge as you Federico.

So far I just use the tools at hand, mostly a hack saw, drill press and files. I have also used dies to cut threads on brass to make a custom screw.


What do I need to solder/braze brass pieces (not even sure about the difference between those operations)?

Solder is a lower temperature medium. Plumbing solder has changed, at least in the U.S., but is mostly a tin lead mix or silver solder which is a silver mix.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soldering

Has more information on soldering.

Silver solder uses a torch. Lead solder can use a torch but can also be done with a small electric gun or iron.

Brazing is higher temp and is a stronger bond. Brazing is done with a torch using oxygen where silver solder can be done without oxygen.

At least that is how I remember it. This could be all wrong. Someone with more metal knowledge will hopefully correct or add to this.

jtk

[Jerome Hanby]

I think the main difference between soldiering and brazing is the temperature. In the USA I think the magic temp is 800. Probably be hard to get the materials you wanted to join up to that temperature without using a torch with an additional oxidizer.

[David Keller NC]

From the standpoint of joining brass/bronze pieces, there's quite a bit of difference between brazing and soldering. While true that the academic distinction between brazing and soldering is largely temperature, for soldering brass, one typically uses a lead/tin/antimony mix, possibly with silver (e.g., "silver soldering"), and the flux is largely meant to clean the surfaces being bonded and protect them from oxidation while being heated. In brazing, the brazing material is typically a copper/phosphorus or copper/silicon/tin mix (e.g. "brazing rod"), and the flux is intended to prevent the brazing and the substrate material from oxidizing during the heating step. During typical copper/brass soldering, the temperatures are low enough to where the solder doesn't really need protection from oxidation - just the surfaces being soldered.

All this said, you would typically want to make furniture hardware out of solids, either by machining or casting, rather than brazing/soldering. That's because in most applications, soldering isn't nearly strong enough to stand up to the high forces the hardware is being subjected to, and brazing brass with bronze or silicon/copper isn't easy - the brass substrate tends to melt at about the same temperature as the brazing rod, so getting a good weld is difficult.

If you want to make hinges, you can do so pretty easily with a particular brass alloy (alloy 260, or "cartridge brass") that's easy to cold-work from sheets, and all you need is some way to cut the brass, form it, file it, and polish it. For those last operations, you could go as simple as a fret saw, a metal-working vise and a few metal fixtures that you make yourself, some find-cut files, and a polishing/buffing wheel. The hinge barrels can be made from steel drill rod. All of these materials are readily available from McMaster-Carr and other on-line supply houses.

If you want to make your own screws, you will need a lathe of some sort, some hard steel or carbide cutting tools, and one of the following: a lathe equipped with a thread-cutting lead screw (typically a metal-cutting lathe), metal-cutting dies, a screw-thread swage tool, or, if you really want to go old-school - just a fine, small file.

If you want to make your own pulls out of brass, that's best accomplished by casting. There's a -ton- of information on the web about doing your own casting at home, and you can also employ casting services that will make small runs of whatever you're interested in from patterns that you supply (which can be of wood, plastic, etc...).

One resource you might want to check out is Lindsay's Technical Books (they used to be called Gingery's technical manuals). These are all about doing some very surprising things with next to nothing in terms of professional tools and money:

http://www.lindsaybks.com/

[Dave Beauchesne]

Federico:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?166021-silver-soldering-advice-needed (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?166021-silver-soldering-advice-needed)

Please see this earlier Post -

There is likely info present that you can use. If you are joining brass for hinge parts etc., I would silver ' solder ' ( silver braze ) is the proper term, with an alloy that melts at about the 1250 degree F range. EASY FLO 45 is one such alloy, and it has about 45% silver content.

If you have further questions, feel free to ask!

Dave Beauchense

[george wilson]

260 alloy brass solders readily with lead base soft solder. 360 alloy will not solder with lead. You must use lead free for it.

I found out many years ago,while soldering 260 alloy with lead solder,and playing around with it,if you get the soldered brass red hot,the lead solder goes into the brass alloy. If you try to heat up the brass after you soldered it with lead solder at a red hot heat,long fingers of brass come away when you finally get the brass hot enough to pull the joint apart. That is a STRONG joint!!

This could save you the expense of buying silver solder for relatively small work.

In other words,lead solder can be as strong as silver solder if you solder 260 alloy,and then heat up the brass red hot. Don't over do it on heat,though,because distortion and collapsing can set in.

If you have 260 and 360 alloy brass and file both pieces bright,and look at them together,the 360 will look pinkish compared to the 260. This helps you to identify the 2 brasses. Of course,there are many brassy looking alloys out there. If you buy some of 260 and 360,and later get them mixed up,file them both clean in a spot,and look for the pinkish color.

Round rods of brass are 360,never 260 that I have found.

[Dave Beauchesne]

260 alloy brass solders readily with lead base soft solder. 360 alloy will not solder with lead. You must use lead free for it.

I found out many years ago,while soldering 260 alloy with lead solder,and playing around with it,if you get the soldered brass red hot,the lead solder goes into the brass alloy. If you try to heat up the brass after you soldered it with lead solder at a red hot heat,long fingers of brass come away when you finally get the brass hot enough to pull the joint apart. That is a STRONG joint!!

This could save you the expense of buying silver solder for relatively small work.

In other words,lead solder can be as strong as silver solder if you solder 260 alloy,and then heat up the brass red hot. Don't over do it on heat,though,because distortion and collapsing can set in.

If you have 260 and 360 alloy brass and file both pieces bright,and look at them together,the 360 will look pinkish compared to the 260. This helps you to identify the 2 brasses. Of course,there are many brassy looking alloys out there. If you buy some of 260 and 360,and later get them mixed up,file them both clean in a spot,and look for the pinkish color.

Round rods of brass are 360,never 260 that I have found.

George:

Thanks for another perspective - as usual ( when I read your posts ) I have learned a couple things - I have literally joined thousands of copper / copper, copper / brass and brass/ brass joints in both low and high temperature alloys over the years in my trade. but I know enough to never stop learning. Thank You!

Dave Beauchesne

[David Keller NC]

Round rods of brass are 360,never 260 that I have found.

George - you can get small-diameter rods of 260 from McMaster-Carr and a few other places. Max diameter that I've seen was 3/16". Of course, I would guess that getting 260 in rods isn't all that desirable for furniture hardware, since 360 or one of the other, stronger alloys would be preferred for hinge barrels and such.

The reason I suggested 260 in sheets to Frederico was for the hinge leaves so that the fingers that hold the hinge barrel can be rolled over without tearing. I'm sure you knew that, but I wanted to point out to Federico that there are many brass alloys, and some of them will fall apart if you try to cold-work them (or hot-work them, for that matter).

Personally, I wouldn't bother making hinges out of brass, Brusso and others are just way too good and way too inexpensive compared to the work of making them yourself. Making iron hinges out of wrought, however, is another thing entirely....

[William Adams]

Very interesting thread --- I've been pondering this, since I wasn't able to find a nice, solid brass (surface mount) catch for a case I'm making (managed to find nice `WP'' (Worcester Parsons?) hinges, sand cast handle (from England) and a gorgeous hand-forged brass stay chain (from Italy) (and brass-plated steel Stanley ball catches --- regretting not getting Brusso catches, but needed a surface mount strike.

Currently have a pair of medium catches w/ brushed finish made of ``Zamak''? (from Taiwan) but would really like something of nice, solid, polished brass --- considered the Brusso jewelry box catch, but was worried it wouldn't be secure enough (stock is red oak less than 1/2" thick).

Anyone know what the Zamak will look like if I sand off the brushed finish and polish them?

[David Keller NC]

Zamak (depending on which zamak you have, there are at least 7 alloys in used named "Zamak") will largely have the color of zinc, which is always 95% of its composition. It might be tinted slightly yellow or pinkish from the small amount of copper in various alloys.

Of course, it won't stay this color very long - zinc rapidly oxidizes in the air, so it will turn a dirty gray color over the course of a few weeks or months.

[William Adams]

Thanks. I was worried about such a result --- nice thing 'bout the surface mounting, I can always remove, plug holes and replace w/ something slightly larger.

[Federico Mena Quintero]

Many, many thanks to everyone :) This is a great starting point!

[Federico Mena Quintero]

I just found this behemoth - looks like it has all I'll ever need to know :)
http://www.wkfinetools.com/mLibrary/Hasluck/1904-Metalworking/1904-Metalworking.asp

[Jim Koepke]

I just found this behemoth - looks like it has all I'll ever need to know :)
http://www.wkfinetools.com/mLibrary/Hasluck/1904-Metalworking/1904-Metalworking.asp

Wow Federico, that is a great find.

Thanks for sharing,

jtk

[Mike Siemsen]

Solder is a lower temperature medium. Plumbing solder has changed, at least in the U.S., but is mostly a tin lead mix or silver solder which is a silver mix.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soldering

Has more information on soldering.

Silver solder uses a torch. Lead solder can use a torch but can also be done with a small electric gun or iron.

Brazing is higher temp and is a stronger bond. Brazing is done with a torch using oxygen where silver solder can be done without oxygen.


jtk

Brazing is similar to soldering in that you are joining metals with something that bonds to the metal but melts at a lower temperature than the metals being joined. It is called brazing because you use brass, which melts at a much higher temperature than lead solder. You cannot braze brass simply because that would be welding, where you join similar metals by melting them together at the joint. Brazing rods are a good source for small brass rods because they are small brass rods.
Mike

[Jim Koepke]

Brazing rods are a good source for small brass rods because they are small brass rods.

Yes, and they are often less expensive than buying what is sold with the label of brass rod.

I often find two things in the bigger stores that are the same thing with different labels and different prices.

It is also a good idea to bring saws for cutting material when you buy things at the big box stores. Sometimes something in a long length is cheaper than buying multiples in shorter lengths. That is where the saws come in handy.

jtk

[Brent VanFossen]

Thank you! What a great book.