Newbie shopping for a bowl gouge

[Rob Price]

I'm still very early on the bowl learning curve, but after trying my hand on a few I think I want another gouge. I started with the Benjamin's best 6 pack you can get on amazon- it seems primarily aimed at spindle work but they do throw in a 3/8 bowl gouge. Roughing out a 8-9" oak was an adventure with it. A lot of it was incorrect technique, but the little tool seemed difficult to control and my hands took a beating. Compared to my 1/2 spindle gouge, it just seemed undersized. I'm reading Raffan's bowl book, and noticed he talks about using spindle gouges for some roughing but I digress.

Part of the problem may be the small handle it came with as well, but I wonder if a 1/2 bowl gouge with a good heavy handle wouldn't work better. I've been perusing the Doug Thompson site looking at the 1/2 U and V gouges, plus the Jimmy Clew gouge. I realize a lot of this is personal preference but wanted to see which one you guys would recommend for a newbie. Gouge plus shipping puts me around 75.

I can get a Crown gouge on amazon for $60. I can get the crown 'advanced mettalury' for $85 which sounds to be similar to the Doug Thompson process.

In the other corner, I can get a Shopfox 1/2 gouge to my door for 1/3 the cost which seems to be identical to the Benjamin's tools I already have. $26 is tempting but I think I want the better tool- assuming there is a real advantage.

[David E Keller]

There's obviously no 'right' answer to your question, but there are lots of opinions. I think Sorby makes a nice bowl gouge, and that's what I started with. I've moved to the Thompson stuff since then, and I love the tools. I really like the Thompson handles as well. I think a 1/2 inch gouge is a great place to start, and I've got a couple of them with different grinds. I've also got a 5/8 and recently added his 3/4 gouge, but I've yet to try it out. I'll ultimately add his metal handles to a large portion of my tools, but there's nothing wrong with a home turned wooden handle. As for flute shape, I use a V, but there are fans of every shape and style. I've seen the Dway gouges mentioned a time or two lately and Glaser certainly has a following as well. In a perfect world, you'd just get them all! They'll all cut wood if they're sharp and presented properly, so it really is a matter of personal preference... I don't think you can go wrong with any of the major brands, but I don't know of any truly objective way to compare and contrast. If you've got a local club who's members would let you test drive a number of options then that's probably a great way to figure out what you really like.

[Joshua Dinerstein]

You called it. It is personal preference. But at the same time we all do have some experience to share that led to those conclusions. So let me share mine and then you can draw your own conclusions from what happened to me.

I purchased my first bowl gouge from PSI. The Benjamins bets 1/2" gouge. I thought at the time hey is is cheap, I can learn on it and then someday I will upgrade. Well 3 years later I have used it pretty much exclusively for my bowl turning. I got good at sharpening it. And after 3 years it is about 2 inches smaller than when new. Still plenty of blade left. So I haven't really upgraded. Oh don't get me wrong I am a tool-a-holic. I have purchased upgrades but that are still new in the package and have never seen a spec of dust. Which is a real shame for a powdered metal tool.

So clearly you can get a decent tool for a bargain basement price, learn and have fun and turn some pretty cool stuff.

BUT.... I recently went to a buddies house and turned with his Pro-PM bowl gouge, purchased from woodcraft here in SLC. We were just messing around and a roughed out a bowl for him to then play with learning and do some interior and finish cuts. OH MY WORD! The feel of the tool cutting, the duration of time for which it cut and was sharp, the length and feel of the handle when hogging things out were so vastly superior it is hard for me to properly put into words.

So... I still reach for my bengamin's best bowl gouge even though I have a deep and burning desire to call up Doug Thompson and order a bowl gouge. And even worse I have a Crown Pro-PM sitting in a baggy on the floor of my shop just waiting to get into the action.

Why? Honestly? Because it is habit. I know how the BB will cut. I know the edge on it. No shaping is required. Somehow there is a fear in me that I will mess up the grind on that good new tool, even tho I have long since learned how to sharpen. All of these things combine to keep me using the same old thing I know.

So my advice, and this is 110% just my own personal thought, get a good one. Pony up the money and buy the best you can afford. It hurts but like a band-aid only for a second. Only until it gets here and you get the most amazing shavings off of a stable wicked sharp tool. Get used to it as your go to tool. Get used to turning properly with sharp tools instead of either always running back to sharpen or learning to turn with a butter knife instead of sharpening. (Which is what I realized was happening to me.)

Then when you have all this down to habit and going just the way you want you are doing it with the best quality bowl gouge you could have gotten, instead of habit leading you back to something lesser just because.

Will the BB cut it? Yep. But you can do so much better.

So that is my take on it. I leave it up to you to make your own conclusions.

But if you want a BB Bowl Gouge then send me a PM. I think I still have 2 of them new in the package that I'll sell cheap. Because if I ever get another one out of the package it is going to be a powdered metal one. :)

Joshua

[Doug W Swanson]

I've got both BB and Doug Thompson bowl gouges. While the BB gouge works well, the Thompson seems to hold an edge for much longer. Some people really like the Dway or Glaser tools but I cannot comment on them because I have not seen or used them.

But I sure am happy with my Thompson tools. Great customer service and a great product, too. I would not hesitate to buy from them again.

[Ron Radliff]

I too have used BB since starting turning about 18 months ago. I've always wondered if upgrading to a better quality tool gained anything besides time between sharpening. Since I'm retired, I have nothing but time, so the extra sharpening frequency isn't that much of a show stopper for me. With limited $$$ to spend on tools, I had figured on riding out my 3 BB bowl gouges until they were down to the handles (still a long way off). However if I understand your post correctly, there is also a noticeable difference in the way a quality tool feels and the cut it produces. I may have to rethink my course of action.

[Jim Burr]

I have both D-way and Thompson. My Thompson stuff rules!!! D-way is great stuff as well!. I have 4 Thompson's and Monster handles with shot loaded. Know several professional Artists that use Thompson...the price is more than great!

[Doug Herzberg]

I'm new to bowl gouges. My first was a Woodline 1/2" and it was all I knew for a year or two. I just got a Thompson 5/8" v gouge and turned my own handle. It's quite a bit nicer. Seems to hold an edge longer, as others have said, and is much more substantial. I'd like to try a Thompson handle as well, but that will have to wait for awhile.

I have several BB gouges & scrapers. Ain't nothin' wrong with them, as my dad used to say.

[Harry Robinette]

The main thing with choosing tools is buy the best you can afford at the time. Most all of use started with cheap tools BB Shopfox or whatever and as we could afford to we bought DThompson,Sorby,Crown,Dway, stay with a name brand tool you can afford and you'll be OK.I use most all D Thompson tools but thats me buy what you can.

[Rob Price]

Thanks for all the info. Josua, why don't you sell me that Crown you've never opened and we'll call it even ;)

I have no problem going with the Thompson tools, and I've since been reading several other threads to the same effect. If I have to pay $12 for shipping maybe I should get two. You know, to cut my shipping costs in half per tool...

Would the 1/2 be a big enough jump up from the 3/8? I just finished comparing my two gouges now, the 1/2 also has a much bigger handle, but it just feels that much more substantial than the little one. I have a Delta 46-460 so I can't turn anything bigger than 12" for the moment, the 5/8 seems like it would be too big.

[Kyle Iwamoto]

My first gouge was a Sorby 3/8 which is the same size as the American 1/2". As many have mentioned, it comes down to personal preference. I think no matter what "good" brand you buy, the 1/2" American size is the best starter size. I also have a DT 1/2 and 5/8, Oneway pair of both sizes. I also have a Crown Pro PM Ellsworth 5/8". Of all of them I still like my Sorbys best, ONLY because all the others are PM technology, and the Sorbys seem to get sharper than the others. They get dull faster, but they always get the finishing cuts. It may also be because they feel most comfortable to ME. I really like my Pro PM too. The Oneways get the roughing duties, because I have them in metal handles.
DTs are probably your best bang for the bucks. Yes, I'd save on shipping and get 2 or 3. Because you need to choose, U or V, and 1/2" or 5/8". Most prefer the V, I have one each size V, but want to get a 5/8" U. Or 3/4". It's a rough hobby. Always something to buy.
You could skip the good brands and go Glaser for the best...... Oh, sorry, hope I don't start a best gouge debate......
Good luck in your decision.

[Jim Burr]

Thanks for all the info. Josua, why don't you sell me that Crown you've never opened and we'll call it even ;)

I have no problem going with the Thompson tools, and I've since been reading several other threads to the same effect. If I have to pay $12 for shipping maybe I should get two. You know, to cut my shipping costs in half per tool...

Would the 1/2 be a big enough jump up from the 3/8? I just finished comparing my two gouges now, the 1/2 also has a much bigger handle, but it just feels that much more substantial than the little one. I have a Delta 46-460 so I can't turn anything bigger than 12" for the moment, the 5/8 seems like it would be too big.

3/8" will be more than enough...now and with a bigger lathe

[Bill Bolen]

I think you will find a 1/2 will not jump around as much when overhanging the tool rest compared to the 3/8. Doug's 5/8 is my favorite most especially when roughing out any size bowl.

[Jake Helmboldt]

The 1/2" is not a big jump up from the 3/8 (nothing really between them). I would get 2 tools from Thompson to save on shipping. I don't think a 5/8 is too big for your midi. I have a couple 5/8 that get most of the use, even on mid-size bowls. The extra mass makes for a nice steady cut and are great for roughing a bowl blank. Having a range of sizes is nice. Making a tool handle is easy and good spindle turning practice.

I think Thompson is the best bang for the buck.

[Joe Landon]

I have the Crown, Sorby, Thompson, and Glaser Hitec bowl gouges in various sizes. I have been using the Glaser Hitec tools exclusively for quite awhile now. I use the 5/8 inch with a fingernail grind for about 90% of my cuts. The most important skill to develop as a turner is the ability to sharpen your tools consistently and proficiently. A properly sharpen tool by any name will outcut the dull competition.

[Michelle Rich]

I've used just about every bowl gouge out there over the years. You can make a new longer handle for the one you have. The best cheap gouges I have are from Lee Valley, and Highland hardware. They both carry very decent wingback gouges. I believe both are under 30.00. I think PSI has a nice wingback too. Both are made from good steel. the trick is really knowing how to sharpen & use the tool. keep a cheap one to teach yourself to sharpen. Then I would buy any of the Sorby, or others, if you don't think the one you have is satisfactory

[Paul Kennedy]

Rob, if you can hold off awhile on buying a new gouge, the Southern States Woodturning Symposium will be held in Gainesville, Ga 27-29 April. There will be a lot venders selling their gouges. This will give you the opportunity to hold sand closely examine the different gouges. Additionally, you can see and talk with several world class turners. Go to their web site //www.southernstatessymposium.org// and check out the list of venders. Pk

[Pat Scott]

I've never used any Benjamins Best tools. My friend bought a set of tools from Harbor Freight to learn on, and after a few years he finally bought a Robert Sorby bowl gouge and the smile on his face said it all. I'd been trying to talk him into buying better quality tools and when he finally did he said the Sorby was like night and day compared to his Harbor Freight gouge. Good tools can make all the difference.

Remember that American manufacturers measure the diameter of the gouge (D-Way, Thompson), where European manufacturers (Crown, Sorby, Henry Taylor) measure flute diameter (from the edge of the flute to the opposite edge of the gouge). My Sorby 1/2" bowl gouge is the same size as a Thompson 5/8" gouge for example. I'm not sure how BB measures their tools.

With that being said, my favorite size is the European 1/2" (American 5/8") bowl gouge. I really like my Glaser, but I also have D-Way, and Thompson in various sizes (3/8", 1/2", probably half a dozen 5/8", and a 3/4").

$75 with shipping for a Thompson gouge? - that price can't include a handle. A 5/8" gouge is $80 and a 16" handle is $55. I think this is a VERY nice setup by the way. You'll love the bigger gouge and longer weighted handle. You said you took a beating with the BB 3/8" gouge? A bigger tool makes a lot of difference, it won't bounce around like a smaller gouge will. A weighted handle helps absorb vibration instead of your hands absorbing it. And I think all of my aftermarket handles on my bowl gouges are stiffer than wood handles. Sometimes I can feel the tool vibrate through a wood handle, but when I switch to an aluminum handle (weighted or not), and make the same cut there is no vibration.

I like the 16" handle for all of my bowl gouges, except my Thompson 3/4" Lathe Master has a 20" handle (which is perfect for it). I have a 20" handle for one 5/8" gouge but I think it's too long. I wouldn't think of roughing out a bowl with a 3/8" gouge.

My Glaser has a weighted handle and the size and weight are perfect. I love the D-Way handle because it's easy to grip with it's PVC wrap. The Thompson handles are nice, the weight and length is good, but they are too smooth for me so I wrapped them with the "3M Cohesive Utility Wrap" from Craft Supplies. They're much better now.

Are aftermarket gouges and handles worth the price? I think so.

[Rob Price]

thanks for all the great replies. I think I've settled on a 1/2 and 5/8 V gouge from Thompson. Since I really am just learning bowls I might as well learn on good ones and not have to re-learn with a different shape/grind. I didn't realize there was such a variety of shapes between manufacturers. I will probably re-handle my current 3/8 as well. I'm sure commercial handles will come with time, but for now I'm going to make my own. Of course, Doug's website is apparently down today... patience...

[David E Keller]

Just give him a call, Rob... He's a nice guy, and he can help you figure out what might suit you best based on your latye size and style of turning.

[Anthony Cayll]

Glaser is the way to go. If you are going to spend good money on a lathe, why not spend good money on a great gouge. Holds an edge like no other and is very comfortable. Paulo is very helpful and will point you in the right direction.