Making DIY table extensions? - Felder/Aigner style

[ian maybury]

Hi guys. Thinking of making some table extensions as above for my Hammer separates and Agazz band saw for the upcoming bench project - the diving board type that clips on a rail on the end of the cast iron table (there's a K3 panel saw, 24 in band saw, 410 planer, and F3 shaper) when handling long work pieces.

Here's the Aigner version (down the page): http://www.safety-training.co.uk/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=4_6, but there's cast iron and extruded aluminium Felder/Hammer variants too.

Has anybody done anything like this, or has anybody got experience with the factory versions that has thrown up issues to watch out for?

Most of the discussion coming up in searches relates to out feed tables for classic style table saws, but this concept involves quickly detachable narrow tables that can be moved from machine to machine as needed, and removed when not.

I've some nice phenolic faced 18mm birch ply, and figure a top and bottom layer glued up (sandwiched) over spacing/edging strips (with larger pieces inserted in load bearing areas) should produce a very stiff, straight and strong construction.

The tougher questions relate to:

(1) Method of mounting, and need for support. To come up with mount that will a la Felder system cantilever from the extensions from the existing tables sounds ambitious, so maybe a drop on over two bolts arrangement with jacking screws for fine leveling and an adjustable height support leg at the end might be more practical.

(2) Interchangeability between machines. Issues, stuff to watch out for.

(3) Length(s). Probably 8 - 10 ft workpiece capability.

(4) Provision of T slots in the top surface for mounting stops etc.

(5) Other?

ian

[Jamie Buxton]

I have a short Hammer diving board -- maybe 24"? -- that only is supported by the jointer-planer. The supporting scheme flexes enough that it isn't very useful. If you're making a longer diving board, supporting it from the floor seems like the only way to go. However, adjusting the support leg seems like an issue. If your shop floor is as flat as mine, you probably need to re-adjust the leg for each machine. And if you use the diving board on the thickness planer, you need to re-adjust it each time you change the thickness. It would be a good idea to find some adjustment scheme that is extremely easy and quick. Perhaps there would be a built-in straightedge that flips over the machine table so you can sense the alignment of the diving board, and a support leg that has a quick-clamp capability. Or maybe the support leg has something like the quick-adjust on a bench vise, where you squeeze a spring loaded lever to make the gross adjustment, and release the lever to get a fine adjustment.

[Jamie Buxton]

One other thought.. You probably need two diving boards. If your workpiece is long enough that you want one on outfeed, you probably need another on infeed.

[ian maybury]

It quickly gets complicated Jamie - the devil is always in the detail. Thanks for the feedback on the Hammer item. I'd not thought of the issue with movement of the thicknesser table....

A complicating factor is that the drilled and spot faced holes in the ends of the tables on the Hammer machines while the same depth below the surface (a shade over 54mm) are each spaced differently. Plus the band saw table (a) is not deep enough for holes at that depth, and (b) has the rail for the fence to be got around.

Another is that most of the 'diving boards' are narrower than the machine tables (which are all different widths anyway), and so it'd probably be advisable to make them capable of being repositioned side to side as required.

Time to let it simmer for a while and see what pops up...

ian

[Jamie Buxton]

..A complicating factor is that the drilled and spot faced holes in the ends of the tables on the Hammer machines while the same depth below the surface (a shade over 54mm) are each spaced differently.

The Hammer plan involves an extrusion which is bolted to those holes. There's a matching thing on the end of the diving board that hooks the extrusion. So one diving board can serve multiple machines. I believe Hammer will even sell you their extrusion. Of course, you don't have to use the Hammer extrusion. You could make something similar from hardwood.

[Jamie Buxton]

Instead of expecting the diving boards to support all your stationary machines, and stopping because it is difficult to make them do that, turn the question around. Which of your machines really need table extensions?

Thickness planer: not really necessary. There's lots of push-down force in the machine already. You're at the infeed end to support the work when it goes in, and at the outfeed end at the end of the pass.

Bandsaw: absolutely required IMHO. Nearly all bandsaw tables are teensy. If you rip anything longer than four or five feet, at the end of the rip you're spending a lot more attention to pushing down on the end of workpiece than in guiding it through the saw. If the outfeed table is 3 feet long, you get a lot better leverage on the workpiece.

Jointer: very useful. But the table extensions must be level with the machine tables. Otherwise you have jointer tables which aren't flat, which aren't very useful.

Shaper: not so much presuming you have a power feeder. And if you're feeding long workpieces, a power feeder is a very good thing. (Conversely, if you mostly run short pieces on the shaper, table extensions don't help much.)

Sliding table saw: it depends on what you're doing. You certainly want workpiece support. If you're doing long rips, that means at least an outfeed table. If you're doing crosscuts on long lumber, that means a side support of some sort. I don't think the diving board approach does side support, does it?

[Rod Sheridan]

It quickly gets complicated Jamie - the devil is always in the detail. Thanks for the feedback on the Hammer item. I'd not thought of the issue with movement of the thicknesser table....

A complicating factor is that the drilled and spot faced holes in the ends of the tables on the Hammer machines while the same depth below the surface (a shade over 54mm) are each spaced differently. Plus the band saw table (a) is not deep enough for holes at that depth, and (b) has the rail for the fence to be got around.

Another is that most of the 'diving boards' are narrower than the machine tables (which are all different widths anyway), and so it'd probably be advisable to make them capable of being repositioned side to side as required.

Time to let it simmer for a while and see what pops up...

ian

Hi Ian, the planer outfeed table extension is useful when planing short pieces, they don't fall on the floor before you get there.

On the shaper, the infeed and outfeed extensions can be useful for insertion moulding, I often lock the slider and use stop blocks for that. The issue is to make certain that your extensions can be located in a place where the stop blocks line up with the workpiece.

Bandsaw extensions are very useful however I made mine out of 19mm BB ply aproximately 800mm long X 250mm wide with a single adjustable foot. They work really well.

Jointer, very useful for longer stock................Rod.

P.S. The Hammer mounting system takes care of the height and the side to side spacing automatically. They even have an adapter bracket for bandsaw tables.

[David Kumm]

Hi Ian, I have the Felder F stop tables on several machines. The key is installing the F bars the same height on all machines so you can move them around without readjusting them for height to the table and parallel. I clamp the bars to the machine and install the table and adjust the bars up and down with my favorite tool- the hammer. Once the table is level I take it off, and drill and tap holes in the machine. There is a little wiggle room after the bolts are in for final adjustment. I have a couple of 12" aluminum and a couple 6" cast iron ones. The F bars on the planer are tipped slightly up so the tables are a little high on the out end to help eliminate snipe. I put an angle iron on the back of the bandsaw table and made an outfeed table of BB with a Formica top. Used a toggle clamp to lock the table down to the angle iron- in my case the bandsaw has a biesemeyer fence so the angle iron comes from that. The table sits on a sawhorse. My shaper uses the workbench and cabinet bases for tables. I don't have any round bars to contend with which makes installation easier. Aigner also makes wider and shorter tables that hang off the machines similar to the Felder tables. They are pretty permanent and not easy to take off though. Unfortunately I seem to have half a dozen shop made tables as nothing other than the Felders are interchangeable. Dave

[Jeff Duncan]

Not sure how much this will help, but I looked at the Aigner extension myself and choked on the price. Instead I made these up for my shaper...
http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae307/duncanww/IMG_2199.jpg

Not quite as elaborate as what your looking for, but maybe you could work off it? I made these very quick and dirty. The top is melamine, with a couple solid aprons below. The legs are made up from Unistrut I had lying around, very strong and still easy to adjust. I drilled and tapped a couple holes in the side of the shaper to mount the aluminum extrusion, (left over track from a sliding door kit). The underside of the table has a hardwood block that seats into the aluminum extrusion and was shaved to get the height to line up right. It lines up flush every time.
http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae307/duncanww/IMG_2200.jpg

For a quick fix from stuff lying around the shop it works well. When your running a lot of 7'+ long 8/4 door stiles, it makes life a lot easier. I'm not sure if you can use this basic concept to come up with something as flexible as what your looking for, just thought I'd post it anyways.

good luck,
JeffD

[ian maybury]

Good going gents, some nice stuff in there. Subject to the question about their maintaining alignment I'd happily rush off and buy some Felder/Hammer tables and brackets Dave, but the budget is very tight right now. It fairly quickly runs into a decent amount of money. The immediate project is a bench build which will involve planing 8ft lengths, but it looks like there may be some business about doing custom moulding of hardwood strip which is why the shaper is also in the mix.

Your analysis of requirements Jamie seems pretty much spot on. I'm fitting an Incra TS LS positioner and fence on the 2.5m/8ft K3 panel saw (it'll simplify the sorts of set up jobs on the slider most seem to use parallel bars for), and opted to build the rip and outfeed tables for it to suit (also using the phenolic ply) because i didn't much like the sheet metal OEM stuff - but there's really no application there for the Q/D variety.

There is an option to hang a short table off the side of the saw slider for use with a mitre fence when not using the panel support frame, but i have the Hammer sheet metal unit.

Only finding my way on the shaper, but the basic issue is that the spindle is some distance inside the inner edge of the slider on the F3, and the cast iron table is fairly short.

Thanks for the tip on locating the stop groove in line with the cutter on the shaper Rod. A feeder is on the to buy list, and has to be planned for, but will have to await a paying job and some funds. The issue that centreing raises is that the (shortish/more tenoning oriented) slider prevents a table of any more than 300mm wide being centred in the line of the cutter - the spindle is only 150mm inside the edge of the slider.

The Unistrut sounds like a good option Jeff, and a bit of a resource for all sort of bits. I'd been looking at folding adjustable height desk legs done by Hettich (part no. 046066) but hadn't worked up the courage to ask the price yet. ;-) It's not that easy to get aluminium sections here without buying in quantity (we don't really get outlets selling retail), but clamping a cross wise slot in the end of the table down on a vertical metal web using a toggle clamp from below sounds like a good move - it wouldn't be too hard to tap the table for some jacking/leveling screws to rest on the web. That method covers the issue of side to side adjustment too.

I can work something up from flat aluminium strip and birch ply if needed to fit on the table ends for the tables to rest on, and Unistrut have a place not too far from me so a visit there is on the list too.

Spent some time measuring up tonight, and think i may have been a bit ambitious with the plan to move just two tables all over the place - not to mention that it may be useful to have some different table lengths. It may still be possible to standardise the mountings and the heights though.

Thanks again for all the input, a plan is in sight.

ian

[Bijesh Jacob]

Hi, I build these for my Hammer machines - at least until I purchase the felder ones. Works fairly well on both the K3 and A3.
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[harold schmonz]

Jeff, just made something similar based off yours. Thanks for sharing.