Joinery Plane Questions Before Purchase

[Joey Chavez]

I went back and forth deciding between a LV Large and Medium shoulder plane with the Christmas money I received this year. While my immediate needs would call for the large, I felt long term the medium would get more use, plus choosing the medium helped me fit in another tool for the purchase! First, the LV Medium Shoulder plane is awesome, I practiced and practiced just because it was that much fun to use. However, the first time I actually needed it I saw what I was missing with the large.

Fast forward to tax time and this years return went better than expected so the wife and I are splitting the remainder after the needs are covered. I've slid down this slippery slope pretty fast and am enjoying all the benefits of bench and block planes and now learning how to hand saw. Hand tool work has made the entire woodworking process so much more pleasurable, as I reflect, it seemed the power tools were just the means to get from design to the finished product. Some days I'd dread the process of rolling the tool out, setting up the blade, getting the dust collector connected etc. So while dimensioning and smoothing the lumber with hand tools has become so much fun, the thought of setting up the power router or table saw to cut grooves, dadoes, and rabbets is becoming less appealing. My range of work is small boxes to larger case work and I'd like to get some opinions on my intened joinery plane wish list.

- LV Large Router Plane
- LV Skew Rabbet Plane
- LV Small Plow

And back to the shoulder plane dilema. While I could just add the large shoulder to the collection I find myself debating it against the LV Skew Block Plane. I don't see using the shoulder planes for cleaning out dadoes, just working mostly on tenons and cheeks. Unless I missing something, it seems I could handle that application and add further benefits by going with the skew block. Opinions?

Am I on the right track with these choices, am I in an overkill situation with any of it? Thanks for your input.

[Don Dorn]

Everyone probably has a different opinion so I'll relay my own experience. A large shoulder seems to take care of everything I need, but frankly I don't use it near as much as I thought. Mine is a LN, but quality wise, they are the same in my opinion. I do think the LV would be easier to handle, the arch on the Preston style is more difficult to manuver in my opinion.

The LV Large Router is a nice plane as well and I have one, but I don't really use it either. Hinges are done with a chisel alone at my house so it sees a little dado finishing work, but that's it. The new depth adjustment is a great improvement over the last system.

I'm afraid the skew rabbet is one of the few items I've sent back to LV after finding it difficult to keep the fence setting - it kept creeping on me and I've heard a couple others comment on it too. I'll quantify that by saying it could have been the nut behind the butt, but regardless, I had difficulty. I opted for finding a Record 778 and haven't looked back.

Have heard nothing but good about the LV small plough. I'm sure you would love it, they are fun, fast and effective to use. I don't have personal experience with this tool as mine is a Record 044, but if I didn't have one, I'd order the LV without hesitation for this tool.

[Scott Stafford]

I think everyone had the problem of a slipping fence. The cure is to roughen the rods a bit using 120 grit sand paper. Other than this, it's a very nice plane.

Scott in Montana

[Scott Stafford]

PS. I love my Veritas skew block plane! It is one of my most used planes.

Scott in Montana

[Jim Koepke]

Those are all useful selections.

The answer always has to come down to the user. One may use a router plane for trimming a tenon where someone else prefers a shoulder plane or a skewed rabbet plane. Even with all of the joinery planes mentioned or their equivalents, my tendency is to trim a tenon with a chisel.

For me, the most used on the list is the plow plane. My plow of choice is a Stanley 45. It is a bit big for some of the smaller work but useable.

If you cut a lot of rabbets across the grain, then the skew rabbet may be just what you need.

For stopped dados the router plane might be a good choice.

There may be a way to determine what will be the best choice for you. Is there a procedure currently slowing down your work or that is difficult? Which of the planes on your list make the procedure easier?

As said above, it always comes back to the one with the money in there pocket.

We will all expect a gloat and pictures when your new plane arrives.

jtk

[Chris Griggs]

Those are all three great planes.

The skew rabbet is awesome, but at the end of the day its a one trick (maybe 2 trick) pony. I haven't had any issues with the fence sliding, but when I got it I immediately roughed up the posts with some 150 grit sandpaper, since I had heard that this was an issue for some people.

The Large Router is generally what I recommend as a first joinery plane since it has so many uses for both tuning existing joinery as well as creating joinery. In addition to doing dados well, and stopped worked, it does a pretty decent job on grooves if you don't have a plow (though the plow plane obviously is better for that job)

All that said, now that I've had the plow for a while (it was the last of the 3 I got), I'd have to say that it is probably of the 3 the best to get first for most people. In addition to cutting grooves it cuts small rabbets quite well and if you are doing small boxes it may have plenty of capacity for you. Also Rob Lee has mentioned here before that they are coming out with an expansion kit for the plow which sounds like it will make it more versatile: http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?178192-LV-Plow-Plane&p=1834840&highlight=#post1834840

Anyway, all 3 are great and excel at different things, so if you can get all 3 by all means I highly recommend it. If you have to pick one to start, I'd say go with the small plow.

Oh yeah, I don't own it but I've used the skew block too - its awesome.

[Matthew N. Masail]

I've also been trying to figure out which one of these to get, I know for sure I want to get the LN tongue and groove, a pair of side dado's, and a plow, but what can the skew rabbet do that the skew block can't? besides having a depth stop.

[Archie England]

- LV Large Router Plane
- LV Skew Rabbet Plane
- LV Small Plow

Like Jim, I'm a #45 user. But since Chris Griggs got his LV small plow, I'm wavering quite a bit. The LV plow is superb: simple and enables repeatable results, with virtually no fiddling--like I must do with my #45. And most of what I do could be done totally with LV plow plane. It's a great plane. Now, if you want to purchase a #45 to try out for a smaller investment, I bet there's a bunch of us that would jump to offer you one--:).

I don't use my LV large router often, but I wouldn't be without it. When called for, it's absolutely an indispensable tool--a true "must have." And, this tool is capable of doing a lot of specialty cuts. I worked for so long without one, that I use it to clean up my other first choice methods. One day, I expect to turn a corner and find myself using it a heck of a lot more. Don't skimp on this tool. Buy the extra blades, too.

Skew rabbet plane versus skew block. First, I've now got both and love them both!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The skew block rabbet has virtually retired my vintage Stanley blocks and nearly benched my LN 60 1/2, as well. This LV skew block plane is awesome, Awesome, AWESOME!!!! What it is, in general clean up and planing end grain and difficult grain, the skew rabbet plane is, in particular, to cutting rabbets. Scuff up the rods and go to work. LV has embedded so many adj screws to help us get the blade setting once, and then spend our time working or sharpening. After the first session of tinkering for "right," you'll never need to do that again. As Chris said above, the skew rabbet is not a multipurpose plane. In fact, I bought the skew block initially to clean up rabbets against the grain. I would never have guessed how multi-useful that little block plane would have been. Nevertheless, my skew rabbet outperforms my wood moving fillister every time!!!! LV did this tool RIGHT! Don't even think about it--just get it when you can. My only hesitation would be for people who don't cut rabbets. Otherwise, this tool performs fabulously and flawlessly. I've got the A2 blade and love it.

[Joey Chavez]

Update:

Received the LV Skew Block and LV Large Router a little over a month ago, done little more them test them out to date. Received the LV Small Plow just two days ago, just in time to work on some tongue and groove shelves for a smaller scale Roubo for my stepfather. I had intended to make the tongue and grooves on the table saw with a dado blade, the shelf is 1.25 inches thick. I was too excited to start using the plow so opted for that. I had to make two passes for the wide groove that still left a strip down the middle, maybe on purpose so I could use the router plane to clean it out. In short, awesome, immediately two of my favorite tools in the shop. I have never used a plow plane, never even held one in my hand, but in less than hour (which included honing all the blades) I was cutting perfect grooves and accurate rabets for the tongue. Thinking back on the time spent setting up dadoes on the table saw and all the trial and error that goes along with it. Simple and fun, these tools are fantastic. Here are a couple pictures of the planes and the bench too. Dad doesn't do any woodworking, just needs something to mount an old metal vise on, his grinder, and stack junk on when he is doing house repair work at his cabin. So while it may have been overkill, it gave me the practice I needed to start my own full scale, split top Roubo.

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[Matthew N. Masail]

awesome ! that is some nice looking pine you have there... is the middle pinkish piece and leg also pine?? never seen it that color before. you made me want these planes even more.

P.S
IMO - if you add a wagon wheel vise and some form of a front vise that bench is more than enough for a life time, you know, there are hungry woodworkers out there who would love that bench! :) it would be disrespecting it to load it with junk, you must take responsibility for the level of your creation.... ! lol but I'm half serious.

[Don Dorn]

Everyone probably has a different opinion so I'll relay my own experience. A large shoulder seems to take care of everything I need, but frankly I don't use it near as much as I thought. Mine is a LN, but quality wise, they are the same in my opinion. I do think the LV would be easier to handle, the arch on the Preston style is more difficult to manuver in my opinion.


Since that post, read on another site that pulling the plane instead of pushing it is how it was designed. Works great - LV or LN, think you would be very happy with either.

[Bill Rhodus]

Wanted to add a thought concerning the shoulder planes; I own and use the LV large shoulder plane and like it very much. However, I have decided to purchase the LV small shoulder plane because most of the time I tend to use a wood that is not too difficult to work and the mass is not needed. The large shoulder plane can fatigue my forearms if I am doing a lot of tenon work and the older I get the more I notice this.

[David Weaver]

I would go to the medium if you don't like the large. The small is too small for general work unless you're cutting tiny M&T joints.

Not that you can't forego them entirely and just use a deep marking line and a chisel.

[Joey Chavez]

The pinkish wood is fir. I had already started the bench and was back at my local Menard's trying to find some decent 2x12's and stumbled across two absolutely clear SYP boards that had a special order tag stapled to them, must have been returned or not picked up. So I was able to special order some #1 SYP for only about $1.10 a bf. So while this bench has a mixture my bench will by 100% SYP.

I agree, this bench looks like it is lacking in features but mine will definitely have a leg and wagon vise. Hopefully I can get started this week!

[Matthew N. Masail]

Don't forget to post progress !