Unconventional Shop Layout

[Dale Kuzyk]

Hi, this is my first post, but I have been reading for awhile and would really appreciate some advice on my shop setup. It is a new shop that is 20' wide and 47' long and we are getting ready to pour the cement floor as soon as the frost comes out of the ground.
As you can see from the diagram, there is a bathroom that is accessible from the outside as well. There is stairs to the second level that will be an art studio for my wife and the kids can play their musical instruments (it will be great to get the drums out of the house!). In the area under the stairs I will be putting in a boiler unit that will have supplied outside air. I will have infloor heating for both levels fed from this boiler, as well as a hot water tank that will be heated by a loop from this. I was hoping to put my compressor and dust collector in this room as well, but after reading some posts I may house the dust collector in its own little room just outside this one with some type of vent back into the shop to allow air movement.
Now for the unconventional part. The dark rectangle running from this room under the stairs to the mitre saw, as well as down the middle of the shop, will be a 8" by 8" trough that will have my dust collection ducting. I know many of you advise against this as it is too rigid on tool placement, but the trough will be accessible via a steel plate, so I could put a tool anywhere along this. As well. if I decide to put tools along the long wall to the right, I can just duct it up to the ceiling and then come down by the mitre saw. I will have electrical run in this trough as well as along the walls.
I have planned the shop in functional areas starting with lumber storage, then initial cutting with mitre and table saw, then milling with jointer and planer, then shaping/joinery with the bandsaw, router table and drill press all facing outwards, then decorative work with the scroll saw and on the workbench. Sanding will be kind of out of the way, over by the downdraft table that will be fed into the dust collector. I put it way over there to minimize the dust near my desk and assembly area. I would love a finishing room, but for now I will do any finishing over by the workbench.
The power supply and ducting will all come from the trough and be out of the way. I have kind of a slim area to work with, and I wanted most of my tools away from the walls to allow cabinets to store hand tools etc. I have walked though the process in my mind and it seems to make sense, but after seeing some of the excellent comments on this forum I thought I would lean on your experience to fine tune all of this before the floor gets poured.
I have attached a drawing of the shop as well as a picture of the framing that was finished this week. And there is no snow, I can't believe our luck this winter!
Thanks,
Dale.

[Chris Walls]

Welcome Dale

I read here a lot , I don't post much myself. That's a nice looking building ! I like the under floor route for dust colection. I used to work in a shop that had it and it worked very well. Oh and if your worried about the snow, Upper Michigan could send you some , we must have got about 6 " just today.

Chris

[Jim Finn]

Looks like a great layout to me. IF it were my shop (in my dreams) I would plan for a lot more lumber storage area.

[Bruce Page]

Dale, welcome! I like your plan, especially the restroom. :)

The only thing I would change is a separate tractor shed for the tractor – you will want that space eventually.
It looks like you are well on your way with the construction. Keep us updated on your progress!

[Dale Kuzyk]

Thanks Chris, I wasn't sure about the under floor ducting, it is nice to hear from someone who has worked in a shop with it. And you can keep the snow, but I know our time of reckoning is near....

[Dale Kuzyk]

Thanks for the comment, Jim. I have about 10 or 11 feet shown in the drawing, but I have a lumber rack I built years ago from one of the woodworking magazines that stores sheet goods on the bottom and then has a built in step to put the longer stock on racks above that. Works ok, but I think I might shift the mitre saw over anyway to give a bit more room since I have some there to spare. Thanks again.
Dale.

[Dale Kuzyk]

Hi Bruce, I think I am really going to enjoy this forum, some very helpful hobbyists here.
I hate having the tractor in there, but I need it to move snow and the old girl just won't start anymore in cold weather. I don't like the fact there will be mud, and worst of all, snow on the machine that will raise the humidity in the shop once it melts, expecially right beside my lumber storage. But I do plan on putting an exhaust fan to try and minimize the issue. Maybe a future shed that I can just heat with a popane heater when I need to start the tractor in the winter? Now you have me thinking, I like that idea.
Thanks.

[Art Mulder]

Interesting looking place, Dale. When I first looked at the plans I was puzzled, as it looked like the outside door opened directly on the bathroom, and then the bathroom opened on the stairs! But I looked again and realized that was not the case!

I'm curious about that little corner bump-in you have in the top right section of the bathroom plan. What is that for? Are you just trying to maximize shop space? I would suggest that you take the sink that you have in the shop, and tuck that into the corner you've created, as that would open up that whole wall for something like your jointer or planer.

Here, this is what I mean
.221852

For that matter, since the bathroom is right there, you could skip the shop sink altogether and just use the bathroom sink. I don't use a sink really all that often, and your bathroom is so close.

Personally I would think a jointer would work much better along a wall rather than the cockeyed/angled way you have it positioned right now.

Oh yeah... and you've got the outside door opening directly into the bathroom door opening... I don't think you're going to like that.

Have fun, post photos, welcome to the creek!
...art

[Aaron Berk]

Jointer and planer would drive me nuts like that.

How much infeed space do you have on the jointer, and out feed on the planer?

Jointer looks like the miter saw will interfere with the in feed, and planer looks like it dumps wood into the DP.

just my thought.

[Joseph Tarantino]

940 sq', and a second floor! that's not a shop , it's a palace!

[Dale Kuzyk]

Hi Art, yes, I was just trying to maximize shop space. The short walls there are only 1' 8" in length, and we have a spare vanity from when we built our house that is 2'6", so I was planning on using that. But you have a good point, I have a bathroom right there if I do need a sink. My last shop didn't have a sink at all and I didn't really need it.
Why do you prefer a jointer along a wall? I notice many people on this forum have the jointer/planer back to back next to the table saw. My shop is too narrow to do that I think. I just know in my last shop I had the mitre saw on the outfeed side of my TS, and my jointer on the right side of my TS and planer on the left side. There was lots of walking. I figured this way it keeps the work triangle smaller. And if I move it along the wall then I lose lots of space for tool storage etc along the wall. That is why I put it where I did, but I would like to hear why you prefer it along the wall.
And as for the door into the shop blocking the door to the bathroom, that was a compromise. My concern was if we bring in some bigger stuff upstairs I wanted the outside door to open the way I have it drawn so we can carry stuff straight up. The solution would be a bigger landing, but I don't want to lose any more shop space.
Thanks for taking the time to look at this, Art.
Dale.

[Dale Kuzyk]

Hi Aaron, good catch on the distance to the mitre saw. It was only 5.5'. I have changed the angle of the jointer and now it is more like 10' to the blades.
The outfeed of the planer is down to the left bottom of the page, so the workflow is almost a circle from the TS to the jointer and then the planer back to table saw or mitre saw for final length cuts. I know this is an unconventional setup, but from a workflow it seemed to make sense to me. Why would that drive you nuts? I want to make sure I cover most of the issues before committing to put the trough in the floor the way I currently have it laid out.
The infeed to the planer has about 8' from the blade to the router table and outfeed about 10' to the downdraft table. If I take the router, DP and bandsaw and move them north a bit then I would gain more room. I would make sure to angle the planer so the infeed misses the DP.
Thanks for the comments, Aaron, I look forward to your reply( if you have time with all those kids!!).
Dale.

[Kent A Bathurst]

Well, Dale........since you asked..........;)

I'd kill someone for that much room, and the trough in floor. Very nice.

1] Looks to me like your layout has the TS running toward the tractor.........not sure that's what you meant to do.
2] The entire TS-jointer-planer setup oughta work fine. There are a lot of different paths I take through those three, so there isn't any cut-and-dried sequence. I go TS >> jointer >> planer, but also jointer >> TS >> planer, or BS >> jointer >> TS >> Planer............Having them close together like that is the best solution I could offer....assume you have the infeed + outfeed clearances detailed for enough room. Mine can handle 9' or more....8' is rare enough, more like 7' has been the practical max.
3] I have lumber racks with 14' capacity under my CMS infeed, and similar racks above it. I also have a tool chest under the CMS outfeed. It looks like you would have room for that trick as well.....I use all the lumber storage I can get - and that's not enough when I start a project - I currently have two stickered stacks on the floor as well.
4] It sure seems to me that the DP and the sanding stuff [downdraft, spindle, disc/belt] work more in conjunction with the workbench, not very much with the big boys. Unless I am missing something with the work you do.............I'd have those jokers near the workbench - seems to me that there will be a lot of walking from one end of the shop to the other.
5] I would never want to be without a) a bathroom in the shop, and b) a utility sink in the shop for cleanup of brushes, etc. The separate utility sink means I can use it as....well....a utility sink without worrying about what the "Inspector" would say about the appearance of the bathroom sink. The utility sink gets a pass when she comes through.
6] You have way more room than I do for assembly and finishing.....very nice
7] Again - I don't know what you make in your shop, but my comment is that I haven't figured out how you get larger stuff out of there once you are done? So long as there is room to get to the overhead door by the tractor, then you're fine. I'm thinking of the dining table I just made, and bookcases, etc.

Is there anything else you might consider in the future? A lathe, for instance? A 50" wide-belt sander? :p Just saying - think about what the addition of a machine would do to your layout.

Little wordy.......sorry 'bout that.

[Aaron Berk]

It isn't uncommon for me to be milling lumber lengths up to 10 ft, and routinely doing production type work with 6-8' pcs.

So the whole idea of threading the lumber through the angles of the planer and jointer would bug me.
My DJ-20 gets allot of miles put on it with any given project so I tend to give mine allot of room to "flow"

10' of infeed sounds perfectly fine, and the height of the planer bed clears the other tools?

lol @ enough time. 7th baby was here on the 14th at 10:57am.
And yeah my time is ever fleeting.... :D but in a good way.



Hi Aaron, good catch on the distance to the mitre saw. It was only 5.5'. I have changed the angle of the jointer and now it is more like 10' to the blades.
The outfeed of the planer is down to the left bottom of the page, so the workflow is almost a circle from the TS to the jointer and then the planer back to table saw or mitre saw for final length cuts. I know this is an unconventional setup, but from a workflow it seemed to make sense to me. Why would that drive you nuts? I want to make sure I cover most of the issues before committing to put the trough in the floor the way I currently have it laid out.
The infeed to the planer has about 8' from the blade to the router table and outfeed about 10' to the downdraft table. If I take the router, DP and bandsaw and move them north a bit then I would gain more room. I would make sure to angle the planer so the infeed misses the DP.
Thanks for the comments, Aaron, I look forward to your reply( if you have time with all those kids!!).
Dale.

[Don Jarvie]

I like the idea of the trough but I would add a few more branches going toward the back of the shop, say maybe every 7 ft or so. Put the steel plates in but top it off with a wood floor. You can space the 2x4 sleepers so all you would have to do is remove the plywood to access the trough. This would allow you to move some of the machines against the wall and out of the way.

Get some spray paint and mark out all of the tools, cabinets, etc on the floor and walls since neither are finished and see how the layout looks. Actually seeing the life sizes of the tools you may rethink some positioning.

As for the tractor, you may want to consider and interior wall with french doors to separate the shop from the tractor. This way you don't have to worry about killing yourself insulating the garage doors and it will keep the heat in the shop better.

[Greg Portland]

I was just trying to maximize shop space.If space is a concern then I'd strongly suggest making the tools mobile (except maybe the TS). A method that works for me in my shop is having 3 primary DC drops and moving the tools to the drop when they need to be used. This gives me 3 major work zones that stay free of clutter. I think your movable-drop idea is going to quickly devolve into having a trough that looks like swiss cheese.

In general I use them as follows but have the flexibility for any combo:
Drop 1: table saw, downdraft table (part of outfeed table)
Drop 2: jointer, planer, drum sander/moulder, bandsaw
Drop 3 (6" breaks into two 4" drops): OSS, router tables, drill press
Shop vac: handheld tools

I can setup for stock prep, cutting/edging, and finally sanding which gives me access to all the appropriate tools for each phase of the project.


Finally, I assume you can parallel park your tractor?

[Chris Tsutsui]

I think you have planned out the big components well like lumber storage, mitersaw, and tablesaw.

I would probably have some of those tools like bandsaw and drill press against that east wall to free up some open space in the middle of the room for a combination torsion box assembly table AND tool storage. The assembly table will be lower to the ground and you can have a cart made that matches the height of the torsion box for easy moving of the finished pieces.

I'd probably skip the shop sink as well and just use a bathroom sink.

Then I'd put the planer and jointer back to back in the middle area of the room.

Then for the machines I don't use very often I would store in the back of the shop. For me at least I'd move the router table to the back of the room unless you use that a lot.

Good luck

[Dale Kuzyk]

Hi Greg,
Currently all the tools are mobile, but currently sitting in my garage with all my wife's stuff piled on them.
I do like the way you have the tools in functional units.
LOL on the parking. I can, but I won't let my wife try it :)

[Dale Kuzyk]

Hi Kent,
I do have the TS running toward the tractor. Only when I am cutting down big sheet stock do I go to the outfeed side to retrieve it. It must be a function of making smaller furniture.
Good idea of the lumber storage under the CMS, then it is all kept in one area of the shop.
I agree with your comment on the placement of the downdraft table, spindle sander and disc/belt. I was concerned over the dust they would raise and was hoping to keep it near the big door and near the suction of the DC instead of near my assembly area. But from past experience, dust gets everywhere anyway, so maybe I should just put it near the workbench where it is more functional. I would be interested in hearing others thoughts on this.
I do have 5' of space from my table saw to the wall under the stairs. I guess if I start making bigger furniture I can always move the tractor out and shuffle the table saw toward the big door giving more room. If I find I do that a lot my tractor will have to find another place to keep warm.
The only other equipment I see getting is a lathe at some point. I would put it where the downdraft table etc is now and move those closer to the workbench as discussed.
Thanks so much for the comments.
Dale.

[Matt Day]

I agree that having your tools at an angle is not ideal. I suggest either back to back planer/jointer running straight, or putting your tools against the walls. If you stick with your in-floor duct plan, back to back is probably the way to go.

I also think there is some inefficient space on the East wall where all the tool cabinets are, but that could be a good thing if you get any more tools and need to rearrange.

Have you thought about sloping the concrete to the door for snowmelt to at the tractor? Or possibly sloping to a floor drain? Or trench drain?

[Kent A Bathurst]

Hi Kent,
I do have the TS running toward the tractor. Only when I am cutting down big sheet stock do I go to the outfeed side to retrieve it. It must be a function of making smaller furniture.

Well.........hookay. I'm used to shoving parts through the TS toward the next operation......your table looks to be about the same size as mine.........about 6' x 6'....I stack parts outside the fence, and shove them down the line.

Good idea of the lumber storage under the CMS, then it is all kept in one area of the shop.

Yeah....works good for me....I built my CMS table so it is clear-span for 18'....12' - 14' lumber fits underneath on racks, and there are racks above the infeed as well.

I agree with your comment on the placement of the downdraft table, spindle sander and disc/belt. I was concerned over the dust they would raise and was hoping to keep it near the big door and near the suction of the DC instead of near my assembly area. But from past experience, dust gets everywhere anyway, so maybe I should just put it near the workbench where it is more functional.

I don;t like wandering around the shop....."lazy" is the word. Don't recall what you have in terms of an overhead air cleaner....shop that dimension kinda calls for two - one at each end.

I would be interested in hearing others thoughts on this.
I do have 5' of space from my table saw to the wall under the stairs. I guess if I start making bigger furniture I can always move the tractor out and shuffle the table saw toward the big door giving more room.

5 feet is fine....I couldn't tell, exactly


If I find I do that a lot my tractor will have to find another place to keep warm.
The only other equipment I see getting is a lathe at some point. I would put it where the downdraft table etc is now and move those closer to the workbench as discussed.
Thanks so much for the comments.
Dale.

Also..I don't see a real problem with the angled alignment of the stationary tools. Plus...it's not like you have them anchored or anything. Give it a try, and drag them around if you want to try something else. Unconventional thinking is a good thing, IMO.


Good luck..........and, I'm still jealous about the duct and elect trenches..

[Michael W. Clark]

I'd love have the extra space you have especially since it is detached, looks great!. I have a small basement shop with a couple of 6' tall cabinets that I built for tool storage and I noticed you have some tool cabinets in your plan. I'm not sure how your tool cabinets are arranged/constructed, but I wish mine were only countertop height. The 6' height interferes with infeed/outfeed space constantly. If they were shorter, then I would have additional flat space that could be better utilized. However, you may not have this problem with your larger space.

[Jim Andrew]

I used layout with the table saw with long rails w/ jointer backing up to it, have my mitersaw on one side and planer on the other, with a sander against the other wall, all in 25' and it works for me. The dust pipe drops down between the saw and the jointer, use gates to change dust collection from one to other, works for me.

[Dale Kuzyk]

Hi Matt,
I am doing a rework of the layout based on all the excellent advice I am getting. I am still unsure about the planer/jointer placement as I still think the angles go with my workflow, but I am trying to keep my layout as flexible as possible just in case. Of course, having trenches in concrete are not all that flexible!
I think I might be leaving too much room for tools etc. on the east wall But I am leaving room for a future lathe.
The area where the tractor is does slope towards the door. And there will be a trench in the drain on the south side under the table saw just in case. The more I think about it I don't really want to put the tractor in there at all, but I may not have much of a choice. Stay tuned for Shop Layout 2.0.
Thanks for the comments,
Dale.

[Dale Kuzyk]

Chris,
I am redesigning based on some of the comments here. You are right about the router table. It is mobile and can move anywhere, and it is only used in certain instances so it makes sense to not have it right in the middle like I do.
I will play with that and see what it looks like.
Thanks for the comments,
Dale.

[Sam Layton]

Hi Dale,

Welcome to the Creek. That is going to be an outstanding shop for you, and art studio for your wife. Keep the photo's coming.

Sam

[Art Mulder]

So where is your current shop? What kind of a layout do you have there? What do you like and dislike about it? Is this for hobby or for income?
Those are the sort of questions that I would be mulling over as I consider this.

So who is going to use the bathroom most? Will it be you or do you think your wife/kids will be using it more? If it will be mostly used by the upstairs people, have you thought about just putting the 2pc bathroom upstairs? This would keep the bathroom cleaner, less dusty, less noisy, and more handy to their use. It would also free up a big chunk of floor space for you.
But then you'd want a sink tucked into the corner for shop use.

The tractor is another question that I would mull over. Does it really fit easily to pull it in sideways like that? I'd be concerned about it becoming annoying, or worry about accidentally banging into the side of the shop wall sometime (or several times, while the kids learn to drive it...) What if you just pulled it in straight, but close along one wall. The other side could still be used for wood storage and maybe DC/Compressor placement. You could even build a partition wall across the shop to close off the "garage" part from the "shop" part.

(I like to ask "big picture" questions when considering something like this...)