Perfecting Tenons: Float vs. Router Plane

[Jim Neeley]

I've seen L-N advertise and Derek revoew the L-N face floats for trimming tenons but I've considered that a job for a router plane. Obviously this only applies for tenons parallel to the faces but it seems like a more exact too.

As for mortises, I've fought with files and a float seems like a no-brainer. Thanks, Derek; I'm hoping you will be one of many who chime in!!

Anticipating a Gloat: I've been looking at rp's for some time and last Tuesday broke down and ordered L-N's large and small closed-mouth planes. They told me there will be a couple of days delay since I ordered coco handles on the large plane. Pictures to follow, once they arrive since, w/o pictures, it's bull!! <g>

>> Attempting, and probably failing, to appear patient and uncaring to the external world << :cool:

[Ryan Baker]

A float will certainly do the job nicely, and more quickly than a router plane. As for more accurate ... I suppose that's mostly up to the operator. There are lots of nice planes that will tackle the job quite well too. Personally, I would normally choose a float or plane, or even a chisel before a router plane, but that's just my preference. Nothing wrong with the router plane if you prefer them.

[Michael Peet]

I just got the L-N large router plane and have been using it on an end table build. It has proven very useful for trimming tenons; much better than the rabbet block I would have used otherwise.

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[lowell holmes]

+1 with Michael.

[Mike Brady]

As Michael's photos above show, a router plane with a good depth adjustment like the Lie-Nielsen shown, is the most accurate way to evenly trim a tenon. You can see the results. Most other methods will result in a tenon that tapers somewhat, which makes them go together easily but results in a poorer joint. The other common methods; a float, a rabbet block plane, a shoulder plane, depend mostly on the user's skill with the tool.

If you are not removing much material you won't have to trim the shoulders after using the router plane. The sharp cutter will work right up to shoulder line. Not shown above is using a cutoff from the work piece to support the free end of the router. You can easily fasten it to the sole of the router with a small piece of double-stick carpet tape. His bench dog might be in the way of using that suggestion.

[Jack Curtis]

... vs large shoulder plane vs large chisel - there's lots more than two tools appropriate for this job.

[Sean Richards]

Couple of swipes with a Record 073 - job done.

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

I've been using a large chisel and getting the job done quite well, if I plan ahead and choose pieces with co-operating grain ahead of time. A little thinking ahead there makes everything else much easier.

[Jim Matthews]

The chief advantage of the router plane is the surface will be cut to a fixed depth, to the reference face.
If a shoulder plane or chisel are held off the shoulder at any angle, the resulting tenon will not be parallel to the reference face.

This can be avoided with careful scribing, frequent verification and SLOW stock removal.
The router plane automates these three steps by design.

It may still fit the mortice, but the mating surfaces won't be flush.

[Derek Cohen]

There are many ways to form tenons.

A float or rasp is useful for taking off a wisp. A skew block plane removes waste rapidly. A wide shoulder plane can work with precision. Planes require a good eye as it is difficult to maintain a square edge. Using a wide chisel to split off the waste is a risky technique but can be very quick. A router plane is slow but sure, ensuring that the tenon cheeks are parallel.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Kent A Bathurst]

I have the LN router plane, as well as an LN rabbet block, LN large shoulder plane, full set of chisels and rasps in various flavors........you get the picture.

As I undertook a 43" x 84" dining table with drawbored breadboard ends, I got the LN face float and cheek float.

I was absolutely stunned at how easily and smoothly the sharpened face float worked on tuning the tenon. Nice shavings [not like the shavings from a plane, of course]. It has flat edges, so you can work right up to the shoulders. Light passes made quick work of it. The scalloped surface left by the router was gone as if by magic.....nice, flat, smooth.

I haven't yet sharpened the cheek float, but the handle design on the face float made it easy for me to tune up the 40"+ slot for the 1/2" continuous tenon, and also the faces of the tenons themselves [but the cheek float would have been better for that task].

I cannot tell you if you will get the value out of that tool or not, but having one on the wall, I can tell you that it will be a prime tool for tuning tenons forever. The router plane's claim to fame for me is that it allows alignment of tenon faces at opposite ends of, say, a stretcher/rail, and for multiple parts on the same piece of furniture. But - the float will still do a great job of that "last pass" smoothing.

I am a 100% fan of the floats. You can't simulate what it is like, so you only know once you've used one.

Sorry about the tool show in the 4th photo....my Dad is always fascinated by how this stuff gets made, so I send him a photo chronology. You can see the float on edge by the bayonet saw - it's also in the 3d photo.



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[Kurt Cady]

Wow, Kent! That sure is about the ugliest QSWO I've ever seen. Why in the world would you ever build anything out of that stuff? (when is that table going to be posted in the projects section?)

[Tony Shea]

As far as I'm concerned, there is no other appropiate tool for trimming tenons for a precise fit. Hitting these surfaces with any other tool will almost always result in a tapered tenon. If care is taken with this other tool the taper may be very slight and may not pose any issues. But why risk this when all one has to do is pick up a router plane and true your tenon cheeks. This will result in a perfect fitting tenon every time, as long as you pay attention to your depth setting. I just can't imagine not using my router plane for this operation, it just WORKS! There are more ways to skin a cat, but if the cats skin needs to come off perfect then why not use the perfect tool.

[lowell holmes]

I think you are speaking in jest. :)

[Sean Richards]

As far as I'm concerned, there is no other appropiate tool for trimming tenons for a precise fit. Hitting these surfaces with any other tool will almost always result in a tapered tenon. If care is taken with this other tool the taper may be very slight and may not pose any issues. But why risk this when all one has to do is pick up a router plane and true your tenon cheeks. This will result in a perfect fitting tenon every time, as long as you pay attention to your depth setting. I just can't imagine not using my router plane for this operation, it just WORKS! There are more ways to skin a cat, but if the cats skin needs to come off perfect then why not use the perfect tool.

I would counter that argument and say that the perfect tool depends on the particular job at hand. I personally wouldn't use a router plane for trimming a muntin tenon for example. At the other end of the size scale you start to encounter the 'chipmunk effect'. I do (rarely) use a router plane for tenon trimming but often I can have the job done, with an acceptable precision using a wide chisel or a big shoulder plane - before I would have got the router plane adjusted.

Just my 2c

[Kent A Bathurst]

I should have noted in my post above that I generally burn innocent electrons in making my tenons. In that case - TS tenon jig, or dado stack or BS [depending on what, how many, and the phase of the moon] - I need what Derek described as "wisps" [some Australian term, I assume]. I cut em just on the fat side of tight, and lightly touch them up. When I do them neander-style, the router plane is more likely to be used than with power gear.

[Jack Curtis]

I see great evidence here of some woodworkers limiting others by virtue of their own limitations. It depends on how you use big chisels whether one will work for tenon trimming, the necessity of which is brought about by relatively poor sawing skills. I have no dog in this hunt except grace and efficiency and results, so I don't care if you want to use a router plane; but I can promise you it's not graceful, nor fast, and the results don't always equal those resulting from good sawing.

[lowell holmes]

Bob Smalser uses a special router plane he made for tenons.

I hope your not including him in that group.

[Mark Salomon]

There is no single best way to fine tune the fit of tenons. The most fundamental question is how was the tenon formed? If it was created by machine, for example on a table saw with a tenoning jig or dado stack, then the resultant tenon will be square and will only need to have a small amount of material removed. In this case any of the methods described above will be satisfactory--the router plane is easiest as long as the tenon is centered on the rail. I generally use a block rabbet plane but sometimes use floats or a small router plane. What is most important is to not remove too much material. To prevent this I mark each tenon with cross-hatching from a pencil. This makes it easy to stop as soon as the cross-hatching is gone and check for fit. I usually add new cross-hatching after I remove the old before testing the fit because the mortise rubs the tenon and makes it easier for me to track my progress. If I've cut my tenons by hand I have a hard time getting a great fit unless I use a router plane because it also centers the tenon as I tune the fit. If I can't use a router plane I proceed very carefully using floats and a rabbet plane. Also, it is true that a plane will tend to taper the tenon and this can happen quickly. I compensate for this somewhat by very slightly skewing the blade so that it takes a very slightly deeper cut next to the shoulder. You can moniter this pretty precisely if you cross-hatch the tenon first. I'll be fitting about 50 or so tenons in the next week so I need to remember to practice what I preach! I find tenon fitting one of the most pleasurable aspects of woodworking but I try to never do it if I am tired or in a hurry. Good luck.

[Jack Curtis]

Bob Smalser uses a special router plane he made for tenons.

I hope your not including him in that group.

What do you think? See, I thought I was talking about those who insist that a router plane is the only way to go since you "always" get tapered tenons when using a chisel.

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

On the subject of tenons, I remember seeing an interesting jig in Tage Frid's book where he does the cross cut first, and then has a jig with a plane blade screwed to a spacer on top of piece of wood with a hole in in - with everything lined up, you hammer the stock into the blade, and it splits off the cheek cut, which drops through the hole. Seems like it'd be pretty fast if the grain is cooperating. Anyone tried something like this?

[Derek Cohen]

On the subject of tenons, I remember seeing an interesting jig in Tage Frid's book where he does the cross cut first, and then has a jig with a plane blade screwed to a spacer on top of piece of wood with a hole in in - with everything lined up, you hammer the stock into the blade, and it splits off the cheek cut, which drops through the hole. Seems like it'd be pretty fast if the grain is cooperating. Anyone tried something like this?

Hi Joshua

Have a look at my recent post on my bench build update. I did this with the end cap tenon.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

I've actually used the method you show on your cap tenon pretty frequently. And yeah - now that I think about it, it's not really anything more than a jig to make the chisel whacking/splitting method more automated. Tage shows it in use doing small tenons, and specifically mentions using it when he needs a lot of tenons - rather than lining up and whacking every tenon with a chisel, probably clamping them somehow - you set up the jig and it registers off the work, making things quicker.

Edit:
For anyone curious about what I'm talking about, here's a Google Books preview (http://books.google.com/books?id=wlecZbO4aoQC&pg=PA184&lpg=PA184&dq=tage+frid+plane+iron+jig&source=bl&ots=m_ZgY6mFex&sig=YReBsdJdlDIFeasa75yXWLiMbUk&hl=en#v=onepage&q&f=false) that should show a few pages with the jig in question - it's shown in use on pages 184-185, and construction notes on pages 186)