Looking to buy a drawknife

[Joe Fabbri]

Hi everyone,

I have some hewn beams that I'd like to square and smooth. I'm figured that a drawknife would be the best way to take out some of the gouges and chops quickly and bring it roughly into square. Then, I'd use a plane with a cambered iron, and then a jointer plane.

These are birch beams that I squared roughly with a felling axe. They're decently square, but still need a bit of work. Am I right to think a drawknife would be the right tool for this? I considered a hand power planer at first, a cheap Skil or Ryobi; but I worry that the blades would wear down too quickly. Beside I don't know if the cheaper planers would be up to the task, and I'm not crazy about spending a lot for a tool I won't use too often.

I considered a scrub plane, but I don't know how much that would differ from my regular jack plane with a decent camber on it. Besides it might take too long, as I have a decent amount of wood to work.

Anyway, I've been looking at ebay and craigslist for drawknives, and I can't seem to find any for less than $20, at least not when shipping's factored in. That seems a bit pricey for an old tool. The best deal for a new one seems to be by Timber Tuff: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B002ASAB68/ref=asc_df_B002ASAB681875175?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&tag=nextagus0019991-20&linkCode=asn&creative=395093&creativeASIN=B002ASAB68

The reviews aren't great for it. I suspect the edge doesn't hold up too well. I wonder, though, for rough work if it's not good enough. Does anyone have experience with this particular drawknife? Should I just buy this one new, or do the old ones still pay to clean up and put back to use?

Any advice is appreciated.

Thanks,

Joe

[Zach Dillinger]

I'd look for a hewing hatchet or an adze. How flat / square do these have to be?

[Jim Koepke]

The reviews aren't great for it. I suspect the edge doesn't hold up too well. I wonder, though, for rough work if it's not good enough. Does anyone have experience with this particular drawknife? Should I just buy this one new, or do the old ones still pay to clean up and put back to use?

I suspect the handles come loose also. Look at the drawknives available at Tools For Working Wood.com.

They are more expensive, but notice how the handles are attached. Loose handles will be frustrating. Your hands will impart some torsion to the handles while you are working.

A dull drawknife blade will also be a major frustration. The knife will tend to slide over the surface. This could lead to injury.

I would forgo a scrub plane and buy a cheap blade for your jack plane to camber and use. Home Depot recently had some 2" plane blades for under $5, not sure if this is still going on.

I have one drawknife and wish I had a few more. Mine has fold out handles that can be set to different angles. That feature often comes in handy. It is also a great way to protect the blade and fingers when the knife is stored.

You could always buy one on ebay, use it and then resell it on ebay to recoup some of the cost.

jtk

[Joe Fabbri]

Hi Zach,

I thought about a hewing hatchet, as a new one can be had for only about $35. But I don't think I'll get too much of better finish than I'm getting at the moment. It's harder work with a double bevel axe, but holding it at the right angle, I've been managing alright, I think. From what I've seen of hewn beams, my results so far look about the same.

As far as an adze goes, I don't know it will eliminate the chipping out and gouges that I'm already getting in places. The surface an adze would leave would be smoother, but probably not smooth enough.

What I'm trying to achieve is a pretty smooth surface, and as square as possible. What I plan on doing is ripping these beams down once they're square enough, in order to make a bench out of it. I will probably try to go a deep as possible from either side with a circular saw (which is why I need it pretty square), and then finish with a rip tooth saw by hand. Or I will build a frame saw with a rip blade (using the blade Highland offers perhaps--though it might be too short) and cut it all by hand.

Afterwards, I might joint it by hand, or bring the pieces to a shop.

Joe

[Joe Fabbri]

Hi Jim,

It's interesting to hear you like the folding handles. I've heard some negative comments on them, and I also thought they might be annoying if they tend to move when you're working. Do you find that to be the case? Anyway, I passed on a nice folding one on ebay, and the seller was located right near me (for about $21). The folding aspect turned me off a little.

I've seen the ones at Tools for woodworking, but they're a little too pricey for me right now. Plus, I feel like I need something on the rugged side for this, rather than made for finer work.

[Mike Henderson]

This may not be neander, but a good tool for what you want to do is a hand held powered planer. Those things take a lot of wood off quickly.

You might post your location and someone close to you may be willing to lend you one. For most people, those don't get a lot of use except for door work.

Mike

[Bill Houghton]

If you get one of the name drawknives - Greenlee, Witherby, Swan, etc. - and it's not beat to death, you're probably better off than buying a new one in the same price range. Really, they're just a really wide chisel with handles. Or you can spend pricey money to get a good new one.

All my drawknives are old, found at yard sales; and they work just fine.

[Jim Koepke]

It's interesting to hear you like the folding handles. I've heard some negative comments on them, and I also thought they might be annoying if they tend to move when you're working. Do you find that to be the case? Anyway, I passed on a nice folding one on ebay, and the seller was located right near me (for about $21). The folding aspect turned me off a little.

Most likely all folding handles are not the same. All of them can mess with your fingers if you are not careful when closing them.

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Mine has detents and springed pawls to lock in preset positions. The do not move once set.

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One of the pawls had lost its screw so I had to take it apart a do a little work, but it is fine now.

I find this handy at time when one of the handles hits the bench, it can be flipped back to avoid this.

A drawknife is good for removing bark and taming some rough areas. A jack plane with a cambered blade might work just as well.

If you do much with raw logs, a drawknife does come in handy.

jtk

[Matt Hankins]

I agree with Zach. I have used a combination of an adze and a scrub plane following hewing. I think that an adze would be your best bet along with your smallest plane, ie. #3 or #4. Unless you want to also invest on a scrub plane or get a different blade as Jim suggested. I think the draw knife will peel up the wood and cause you problems, depending on the grain direction. The handles will also limit your "angle of attack" on the beam.

As an aside, one of my mentors always suggested looking first at the traditional method, in this case: brad axe, then adze, then plane, when trying to tackle a project. Usually they did it the fastest, easiest and most economical way.

Matt

[Zach Dillinger]

Hi Zach,

I thought about a hewing hatchet, as a new one can be had for only about $35. But I don't think I'll get too much of better finish than I'm getting at the moment. It's harder work with a double bevel axe, but holding it at the right angle, I've been managing alright, I think. From what I've seen of hewn beams, my results so far look about the same.

As far as an adze goes, I don't know it will eliminate the chipping out and gouges that I'm already getting in places. The surface an adze would leave would be smoother, but probably not smooth enough.

What I'm trying to achieve is a pretty smooth surface, and as square as possible. What I plan on doing is ripping these beams down once they're square enough, in order to make a bench out of it. I will probably try to go a deep as possible from either side with a circular saw (which is why I need it pretty square), and then finish with a rip tooth saw by hand. Or I will build a frame saw with a rip blade (using the blade Highland offers perhaps--though it might be too short) and cut it all by hand.

Afterwards, I might joint it by hand, or bring the pieces to a shop.

Joe

A properly sharpened and wielded adze will give you a flat, smooth surface, certainly one smooth enough for a bench top. After you get it together and on its feet, I'd then attack it with a fore plane, followed by a try plane, if you need it to be flatter. But that adze work will go a long way to eliminating any gouges / chunks you got from the axe. A hewing hatchet will also get your surface much smoother than you think.

I think you will find a drawknife very frustrating to use in this manner. And I don't think it will do a better job than the adze.

[Jim Matthews]

If you're working toward a finished surface, your first passes with a drawknife may lift away more material than you desire.

The grain direction at the edge will dictate whether the blade "climbs out" or "digs in".
I second the notion that a timberframer's power planer will offer considerably more control.

A drawknife can remove stock, fast.

[Jack Curtis]

For logs only, I'm kind of fond of doing this with a chona followed by a yariganna. Lots more expensive than $20, though.

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[Zach Dillinger]

The chona looks like an adze to me.

[Jack Curtis]

It's a long handled adze.

[Joe Fabbri]

Hey guys,

Thanks for the responses.

I know what you mean about following the traditional methods. It wasn't a luxury to have extra tools back then, I understand. I looked into a broad axe/hatchet at first, but I also needed a regular felling axe to do the heavy scoring/chopping (and I needed a regular axe for a while). I read a few places online that said it was possible to do it all with a felling axe (albeit more work), so I just started doing it all with the one axe I picked up at Home Depot. I guess I should have been more patient and ordered a proper hewing axe. I have gotten pretty decent at holding it at just the right angle, though. At this point, I think I can get away without the broad axe. Maybe for future projects, I'll invest in one.

As far as the adze goes, it seemed like it would be difficult to use without scooping too deep, and making waves across the surface. But I'm sure it's just a matter of getting used to it, like anything else. From some of the pictures I've seen of adze work, some sides of my beams don't look too far off already. Unless I'm only looking at sloppy adze work.

Some of the problem is that in certain spots I scored too deeply with the chainsaw (which I broke down and used a few times). In fact, I've taken my jack plane to some areas and it doesn't take long to smooth it down--it's just the 3/8" kerfs that stick around here and there...

I understand that the drawknife could be more problematic than it's worth, and might be hard to use around a 9-10" wide beam.

So maybe I should consider the power planer, if you guys won't tell anyone....

[Ryan Mooney]

Yeah a HD axe isn't really going to make anyone happy here. I have one I bought years ago and have never been able to get the darn thing really sharp or to hold an edge well at all (I've relegated it to be the "grub" axe - also known as "the loaner axe" for folks I know will drive it into the dirt :D). The profile is really wrong for this sort of work as well.

A good hewing axe would work well, but its a bit of an art to do it right and hew to the line properly (my dad and uncle - at least used to be back when - decent, my attempts have been nearly not as nice - but then they've done 100's of feet more than I..). The "easiest" way is to mark the lines, and then cut from the edge towards the line with a saw (stopping just short of the line), then hew out between the kerfs. You have to pay some attention to the grain to avoid split out under the kerf.. but you have at least a pretty good baseline to cut towards. The old timers would cut the kerfs with an axe, which is faster but that obviously requires a lot more finesse and control.

Adze work is also sort of a trick. If you aren't familiar with correct technique/control you can really wreck yourself because you're cutting straight back towards your leg. If you want to learn to use an adze I would strongly suggest getting some instruction from someone who knows how to use one. The damage caused by it bouncing back up into your shin is no-fooling life changing bad news (this is also true of a hewing/broad axe.. but the mechanics to using it is perhaps slightly easier to manage).

I agree with others that the draw knife would be a pita to use on this sort of a project, they aren't really meant to do flat controlled cuts on wide beams (not saying its impossible.. just that the control required would be quite difficult)...

I won't tell anyone if you use a power planer.. :D Still expect it to take a while though. If you had a good axe and were good with it, I suspect that that could be faster... but... if you're like me neither of those things is generally true.

[fred mcclure]

check out sydnassloot.com. he had really good deals on drawknives. i bought one from him a couple years ago and highly recommend him

[Steve Friedman]

Joe,

I am not sure what you intend to do with the beam and how long it is, but I suggest that the type of power planes you need (like they use in timber framing) are massive and expensive.
As indicated by others, based on Chris Schwarz' principal of "coarse - medium - fine", the progression of tools will generally be something like:

Hewing Axe
Flat Adze
Drawknife
Scrub
Jack
Other Planes

Trying to flatten and square a 9" hand hewn beam is a ton of work, so you need to maximize the results from the coarsest tool (the axe). I first leaned to flatten logs from Drew Langsner at Country Workshops, while learning to make Hand Hewn bowls. But I have learned a lot from looking at some of the timber building sites, like Shelter Institute. I have never used a flat adze, but if it is anything like a curved one, it is definitely easier to remove wood with than a drawknife. Like anything else, I have seen experienced people use them produce amazing surfaces. On the other hand, I love drawknives and agree that 9" is wide, but not too wide. I routinely use my 12" Barr Quarton drawknife (it is the scariest tool I own) to flatten 14" - 16" diameter logs, but they're only 2' or so long. By using a drawknife with the bevel down, it doesn't dig in and is easier (in my opinion) to use. By the way, I bought a drawknife that big because the smaller ones seem to remove more material from my knuckles than the wood. If your drawknife handles are narrower than the beam, they need to be angled out or up.

You Tube can be your friend:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=ueIB0h4SzHc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Loa-UIbXhSs
Good luck,

Steve

[David Keller NC]

Joe - Considering the application (building a bench), I'm going to assume that the final surface you need/want is flat, square and smooth, at least to the extent that would result from using a power tool. One typically hews beams with an axe and adze for the surface texture that they leave behind - historically accurate replacement timbers is one such need.

But someone's related an adage to me that, in my opinion, is highly applicable to almost any woodwork, whether power-tool or neanderthal. That adage is "Don't work on wood that's not going to be there in the final product". In the case of needing to 4-square a beam so that it can be re-sawn and glued up as a benchtop, I would not personally use a broad axe and an adze (I own both) - it's way, way too much work.

If the beams are in a location that they can be man-handled onto a truck, I would strongly consider contacting a local woodworker and trading a six-pack or two for the use of his powered jointer & planer. In one afternoon, you'll have processed all of the wood you need, made a friend and a valuable contact, and still be able to walk the next morning (maybe not if you hand-hew these!).

If the beams are not in a location that they can be reasonably transported in their current form, consider buying an edging attachment for your chain saw from Granberg International. You can then edge and re-saw the beams into a rough but easily transportable form, and take the smaller chunks to the afore-mentioned friend with a powered jointer and planer.

[Joe Fabbri]

The HD axe I bought is not great. The edge doesn't seem to get very sharp, despite sharpening it on a stone (probably to 1000 grit). I didn't expect much. I think, though after doing the one beam already, I have noticed an improvement in my ability to use the double bevel axe as a hewing axe. Yesterday, I was actually able to get a pretty smooth side. I'll see about some more pictures soon. But here's some from the first beam I did. The top in the first picture was done with a chainsaw, and when that was done, I decided to stand up on it and score it the old fashioned way. I prefer these results, even if they are slower. (By the way, check out my nifty Rockforge axe....):

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The log in the background is already roughly hewn, I just have to work around some funky sapwood in it, as the tree had a rot issue at the base, which is why it came down.


David, I have a connection near me to a pretty big woodshop. They have larger thickness planers and jointers, as well as massive band saws. It's actually a shipyard. I will probably bring the pieces there once I have the beams ripped down. It think it would be hard to put such large pieces on their jointer at this stage, these beams are pretty heavy.

I know what you mean though, to get the wood to how I want it (not as a structural beam with a rustic look), I really have to introduce different tools to the mix--that's also one of the reasons I figured I wouldn't adhere to the traditional methods in my case.

However, I was thinking of converting an old pickaxe into an adze. It wouldn't take much work, just grinding a bevel with an angle grinder. It might not have the right angles or ergonomics, given the straight handle, but maybe it might work. Worst case scenario is I have a very sharp pickaxe.

Joe

[Steve Friedman]

Joe,

I love Dave Keller's advice not to work on wood that's not going to be part of the final product. I must have missed the part about you using this to build a bench. I have very limited experience in this, but I am not sure why you're trying to square and flatten the exterior of the logs. The wood is going to move after you resaw it anyway, so don't waste your time doing that now. You'll have plenty of fun flattening and squaring the boards after it's resawn.

If you're going to use a bandsaw, I think the logs are ready to go - just cut them (slightly oversize) to length. If they're still to heavy, split them in half first - you need to remove the pith anyway.

If you're going to resaw by hand and want to use a circular saw to start the cut, all you need is a flat area on one side and you already have that. Just snap some chalk lines and start sawing.

Steve

[Joe Fabbri]

Hi Steve,

What I'm looking for is two slabs (or three) for the top and wood for the legs. So I don't plan to do too much resawing, particularly for the top material. It did occur to me to see if I could do it all in house, jointing and all, so smoother/squarer now would probably be beneficial. But, yes I guess I shouldn't do extra work if I don't have to. My main concern is to have two flat, parallel surfaces, so I could cut from both sides with the circular saw (since I don't think my 10" benchtop delta is up to the task), and then only have maybe 2-3 inches in the middle to saw by hand. But, maybe I am fussing too much and I should just cut them already. I admit, I do have a tendancy to try to make it too perfect at every stage, when it's not necessary right now.

Joe

[James Owen]

As others have mentioned, an adze is probably going to be the fastest way to get squared up and reasonably flat.

I know that this is complete heresy for this room :D .... but depending on thickness and length, a bandsaw with a coarse-toothed blade might be the solution for ripping your beams, although you may need a couple of helpers. If you know someone with a (portable) bandsaw mill, that would work, too. <ducks behind tool chest> :p