Useless knowledge we're forced to learn, have never used and have now forgotten

[John Coloccia]

Be honest. Without counting, how many letters are there in the English alphabet? I can truthfully say that I have never, ever, ever used that little piece of knowledge. Not even once.

[Eric DeSilva]

That one I have used--if you have done much with data structures and the like, that one is hardwired.

I've never figured out a meaningful reason to know that yak's milk is pink, however.

[Kevin W Johnson]

Be honest. Without counting, how many letters are there in the English alphabet? I can truthfully say that I have never, ever, ever used that little piece of knowledge. Not even once.

26, dont ask me why I remember that one.... like you said, 99.99999% of the time that's useless knowledge.

[Robert McGowen]

Two of my kids are seniors in college getting a minor in math. They spend HOURS on a single problem. In REAL life, you just punch a button on a calculator and get the answer. I predict in a few years they will have no idea how to do the problem, but they will know how to punch the calculator button just fine. :D



Oh yeah, 26 letters. Did not even have to think about it.

[glenn bradley]

You've obviously never played with cryptography. Now, square roots? . . . nope, have never come to a full stop due to forgetting how to determine a square root ;-) I also was reminded that West Virginia was a state the other day. Of course, everything on the other side of Arizona and Nevada is "back east" to me.

[Zach England]

Sometimes the point is not what you learn, but the skills you develop while learning it.

[ray hampton]

You've obviously never played with cryptography. Now, square roots? . . . nope, have never come to a full stop due to forgetting how to determine a square root ;-) I also was reminded that West Virginia was a state the other day. Of course, everything on the other side of Arizona and Nevada is "back east" to me.

Now I know why people from Calif are so sad, only two states are farther west than Calif. Alaska and Hawaii

[Jim Koepke]

Now I know why people from Calif are so sad, only two states are farther west than Calif. Alaska and Hawaii

But if you ever visit Ferndale, CA you will know where the westernmost bar in the lower 48 states happens to be.

A bit of trivia, Ferndale, CA is the setting for most of the movie The Majestic.

Another bit of trivia, Reno, NV is further west than Los Angles, CA.

Finally, the ultimate useless piece of information:

In a major league baseball game the first batter was walked. The starting pitcher argued with the umpire and was ejected from the game. The relieving pitcher came in to the game and picked off the runner on first. He then retired the next 26 batters. By today's rules this is not a perfect game.

Can you name the starting pitcher?

Funny thing is that most people with absolutely no knowledge of baseball guess this one and get the right answer.

Why we remember useless information is one of those eternal questions.

Knowing things like even though H is the eighth letter of the alphabet and there are 8 notes in a musical scale yet H isn't in the musical scale are other bits of memory that won't get us any more on a paycheck.

jtk

[Jim Koepke]

Now for the real irony...

If we were forced to learn something, never used it, and have now forgotten it, how do we know we ever knew it or were required to know it?

Well, I guess we all had to learn state capitals and presidents at one time.

I try to reacquaint myself with those things occasionally.

jtk

[ray hampton]

which is farther west Reno or west Texas,if Reno are farther west than Los Angles are Reno on the west coast ?

[John Coloccia]

He then retired the next 26 batters.

You could assign one per letter, apparently.

[Myk Rian]

Well, I guess we all had to learn state capitals and presidents at one time.

Never could learn those, but I do know the 26 letters thing. I can even sing them.

[Larry Edgerton]

Be honest. Without counting, how many letters are there in the English alphabet? I can truthfully say that I have never, ever, ever used that little piece of knowledge. Not even once.

Well, maybe in my younger days, when I got pulled over, it may have come in handy.........:D

[Paul McGaha]

I work with a guy that still remembers the capitals to I guess all the states and all the other countries. Says he just remembers it from grade school. He's about a 25 year old EE.

PHM

[Kevin W Johnson]

Well, maybe in my younger days, when I got pulled over, it may have come in handy.........:D


Maybe if you learned them backwards.....

What kind of test is that anyway? I can't say them backwards as it is, never learned them that way.

[David Larsen]

I had to memorize all of the books of the bible in their order for confirmation. New and old. Cannot say that I can remember all in order now. At the time I guess it helped find each book if you needed to look something up.

And... You haven't lived until you wrote out the number for the speed of light in BINARY! Did that in high school and got it right.

[Ted Calver]

I had to learn several hundred Latin plant names. I still remember them, but there's no room for other stuff now :(

[Greg Peterson]

I work with a guy that still remembers the capitals to I guess all the states and all the other countries. Says he just remembers it from grade school. He's about a 25 year old EE.

PHM

I still know most of the capitals. Let's see - A, C, D, F, G, H, I, K, L, M, N, O, P, R, S, T, U, V, W

As for the rest of the stuff I may have forgotten, that's pales in comparison to what I don't know. Heck, you could fill a book with what I don't know.

[Rich Engelhardt]

Useless knowledge we're forced to learn, have never used and have now forgotten (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?180275-Useless-knowledge-we-re-forced-to-learn-have-never-used-and-have-now-forgotten)
Microsoft certification tests......
Possibly the most useless things ever.

[Brian Vaughn]

Knowing things like even though H is the eighth letter of the alphabet and there are 8 notes in a musical scale yet H isn't in the musical scale are other bits of memory that won't get us any more on a paycheck.

jtk

Actually, there are 7 notes in a musical scale. The eighth note is the first note of the next octave.

And some people, like my wife, might consider those little pieces of knowledge useless...I however, am a trivia nerd, and love learning those random facts. Like today I learned that yak's milk is pink.

On the other hand, I tend to forget things pretty easily, especially if I never completely got them in the first place. So don't ever ask me to perform a limit calculation by hand...or a derivative the long way (Using limits)....Can't do it, never could very well. But I can derivate and integrate the normal way without much dificulty...

[Paul McGaha]

My memory is about like Kelly Bundy's.

Gain something, Lose something.

Whenever I gain something I just kind of hope I didnt lose something important.

PHM

[Bill Edwards(2)]

The list is endless:
Good grammar.... Fuhgeddaboutit.
English syntax.... what good is it for?
Geometry....... it's either out of square or out of round.
Climbing a rope (PE)...... do I really have to comment?
Literature..... no Great Expectations here.
Shop.... OK! So there are a few exceptions, but I have never made
another tin cup since.
Don't even get me started on the grade school stuff..
WHO says I have to stay inside the lines?

[Van Huskey]

Although I do know there are 26 letters in the English alphabet it does make one ponder the things we have learned and forgotten.

[Rick Potter]

Another trivia buff here. I even qualified to go on Jeopardy once. I rule at Cash Cab. The sad part is that I constantly confuse my kids names, and cannot name more than one of my high school teachers. The brain node responsible for remembering names has always been undersized.

Useless stuff? It's locked in.

Rick Potter

[Zach England]

I work with a guy that still remembers the capitals to I guess all the states and all the other countries. Says he just remembers it from grade school. He's about a 25 year old EE.

PHM

I could probably get close on countries but I don't remember doing it in school. I have just picked it up as an adult. Oceania gets onto shaky ground (or rather water). What's the capital of the Soloman Islands? I have no idea.

[Brian Tymchak]

English syntax.... what good is it for?



Yea, that brings back some memories of diagramming sentences in English class... :mad: Talk about useless knowledge..

[Jim Rimmer]

Finally, the ultimate useless piece of information:

In a major league baseball game the first batter was walked. The starting pitcher argued with the umpire and was ejected from the game. The relieving pitcher came in to the game and picked off the runner on first. He then retired the next 26 batters. By today's rules this is not a perfect game.

Can you name the starting pitcher?

Funny thing is that most people with absolutely no knowledge of baseball guess this one and get the right answer.jtk

Help me out here; I don't even know how to Google that! :D

[Larry Browning]

Sometimes the point is not what you learn, but the skills you develop while learning it.

+1 for this! Many times the primary purpose of a course(or even an entire subject) is exactly this.

[Larry Browning]

The list is endless:
Good grammar.... Fuhgeddaboutit.
English syntax.... what good is it for?
Literature..... no Great Expectations here.


You have got to be kidding!
If you ever expect to get a decent job, and then be able to communicate properly with colleagues and others in your chosen profession, you need to have these skills! Especially in today's world.
My wife is an Jr. high English teacher in small town Arkansas. She fights this battle everyday with her students (and their parents). At the same time she hears from former students that have gone onto college and into the real world that thank her over and over about how what they learned in her class had changed their lives.
To me, it is no joking matter! These things are VERY important!!!!!

[Larry Browning]

Finally, the ultimate useless piece of information:

In a major league baseball game the first batter was walked. The starting pitcher argued with the umpire and was ejected from the game. The relieving pitcher came in to the game and picked off the runner on first. He then retired the next 26 batters. By today's rules this is not a perfect game.

Can you name the starting pitcher?

Funny thing is that most people with absolutely no knowledge of baseball guess this one and get the right answer.

jtk

The right answer to this question is "No". You have not given enough information. (unless this situation is an actual event)

BTW: This would have not been a perfect game at anytime in baseball history, since the definition of a perfect game is that no batter ever reaches a base.

[Moses Yoder]

Yes, it was very obvious from reading this thread that a lot of people seem to think the English language is a waste of time. I am on Haldol now which affects my memory. I only wish I could remember useless information. In school I nearly won the spelling bee now I had to look up the word "obvious" to make sure I spelled it right. Google is my best friend; I can look up just about anything in seconds and at least appear to be some form of intelligence. My suggestion is if you got it, use it.

[Bill Edwards(2)]

You have got to be kidding!

To me, it is no joking matter! These things are VERY important!!!!!

Yes, I was kidding!

But I think humor is very important.

And I understand binary.... EBCDIC primarily, since it's the only real coding system.:D

[Belinda Barfield]

I remember the number of letters in the alphabet because we use different phrases for coding of prices so I have to remember.

Something I can't think of ever using once I was out of school - the periodic table of elements.

My brain is like a Scrabble tile holder, push a newly memorized thing on one end and something falls off the other.

Useless things I can remember . . . song lyrics, ex-husband's birthday and social security number, birthdays of friends from highschool, my ex-sister-in-law's favorite color. I keep thinking some of this will fall off the end of the tile holder, but pin numbers and passwords seem to be an easier push. :rolleyes:

[Jim Koepke]

Help me out here; I don't even know how to Google that! :D

One has to start with > baseball perfect game <

Wikipedea is always a good place to start from there. In the contents box is a listing for "3 Unofficial perfect games."

The first one answers my question, but it doesn't mention that it was the first game of a double header:


On June 23, 1917, Babe Ruth, then a pitcher with the Boston Red Sox, walked the Washington Senators' first batter, Ray Morgan, on four straight pitches. Ruth, who had already been shouting at umpire Brick Owens about the quality of his calls, became even angrier and, in short order, was ejected. Enraged, Ruth charged Owens, swung at him, and had to be led off the field by a policeman. Ernie Shore came in to replace Ruth, while catcher Sam Agnew took over behind the plate for Pinch Thomas. Morgan was caught stealing by Agnew on the first pitch by Shore, who proceeded to retire the next 26 batters. All 27 outs were made while Shore was on the mound. Once recognized as a perfect game by Major League Baseball, this still counts as a combined no-hitter.

Umpire Brick Owens, it seems like he was calling games when I was a kid and there may still be a Brick Owens calling games. It can't be the same guy can it?


The right answer to this question is "No". You have not given enough information. (unless this situation is an actual event)

BTW: This would have not been a perfect game at anytime in baseball history, since the definition of a perfect game is that no batter ever reaches a base.

It was considered controversial at the time, but Ernie Shore was awarded a perfect game.

No one reached base while he was pitching. All 27 outs were made while he was on the mound. That may have been how the reasoning went in those days.

The qualifications for a perfect game have been made clearer or a little more stringent depending on one's point of view. But some of those games that are on the don't count list would have been great ones to have been in the stands.

Things may be different now, but a decade or two ago, most people who know nothing about baseball only knew one baseball player, Babe Ruth. That is the only thing in my mind that allows so many people to get this one right without knowing anything about baseball. They make a guess using the only baseball player's name they can think of and that happens to be the correct answer.

That kind of folds back on useless information now don't it?

jtk

[Mike Davis NC]

Babe Ruth was a pitcher? I thought he was a batter.

[Jim Matthews]

Avogadro's number (no, it's not how many you need to make guacamole).

I fear most of our secondary and collegiate level instruction is designed to make us feel stressed about the process;
it's an indication of who will submit to a professional discipline and gives the appearance of value for tuition.

Had the Khan academy been available when I attended University, I may have passed basic physics/calculus/organic chemistry.

I know a few physicians - NONE can recall anything pertinent from the these endeavors - so why were they so tasked?

[ray hampton]

I remember a science tidbit about spreading a newpaper out on a table top and wetting the paper, laid a section of plywood on the wet paper with about a foot of the plywood extending over the table top edge, you can hit the plywood close to the edge hard enough to break it before it will separate from the paper

[Jim Koepke]

Babe Ruth was a pitcher? I thought he was a batter.

I would have to look it up, but I think his only individual records that still stand are his pitching records. I think it may be for consecutive shutout innings in the post season. It may also now be qualified by "starting" pitcher.

jtk

[Larry Browning]

One has to start with > baseball perfect game <

Wikipedea is always a good place to start from there. In the contents box is a listing for "3 Unofficial perfect games."

The first one answers my question, but it doesn't mention that it was the first game of a double header:



Umpire Brick Owens, it seems like he was calling games when I was a kid and there may still be a Brick Owens calling games. It can't be the same guy can it?



It was considered controversial at the time, but Ernie Shore was awarded a perfect game.

No one reached base while he was pitching. All 27 outs were made while he was on the mound. That may have been how the reasoning went in those days.

The qualifications for a perfect game have been made clearer or a little more stringent depending on one's point of view. But some of those games that are on the don't count list would have been great ones to have been in the stands.

Things may be different now, but a decade or two ago, most people who know nothing about baseball only knew one baseball player, Babe Ruth. That is the only thing in my mind that allows so many people to get this one right without knowing anything about baseball. They make a guess using the only baseball player's name they can think of and that happens to be the correct answer.

That kind of folds back on useless information now don't it?

jtk

I understood your post to be a hypothetical situation and that we were supposed to figure out from the information the name of the starting pitcher. The question was "Can you name the pitcher?" My thought process would have been different had the question been "Who was the starting pitcher?". After reading it many time I believe I came to correct answer. The name of the starting pitcher could not be determined given the information provided. So I stand by my answer, given this is a hypothetical situation. Or, was I over thinking again?:confused:

[Bryan Slimp]

"Ruth also was involved in a combined no-hitter (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No-hitter) in 1917, when he walked the first batter in the game and yelled at the umpire and was ejected. Ernie Shore came in to replace ruth and didn't give up a single hit in the entire ball game. But the Sox finished second in the league, nine games behind the Chicago White Sox (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago_White_Sox). On June 23 against the Washington Senators (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minnesota_Twins), after walking the leadoff hitter, Ruth erupted in anger, was ejected, and threw a punch at the umpire (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umpire_%28baseball%29), which would result in a ten-game suspension. Ernie Shore (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernie_Shore) came into the game in relief, the baserunner was out stealing, and Shore retired all twenty-six batters he faced, for which he was credited with a perfect game (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfect_game) until the 1990s. Ruth's outburst was an example of self-discipline problems that plagued Ruth throughout his career, and is regarded as the primary reason (other than financial) that then-owner Harry Frazee (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Frazee) was willing to sell him to the Yankees two years later."

[Jason Roehl]

I have yet to use anything from my American and Brit Lit classes for anything remotely productive.

And I disagree that proper spelling and grammar are still required for jobs--even in jobs where one would think those disciplines would be a given. I see errors in the newspapers from time to time, and I see major flubs in TV news graphics frequently--mistakes I would not have made as a freshman in HS. (I didn't mind grammar and spelling classes--those were easy. I hated writing with a passion, though. I didn't much care for history, either, but I could probably make a go of it now.)

[Moses Yoder]

I can remember starboard is to the right of the boat, when facing forward, and port is to the left. I remember this because there are more letters in starboard than port, just as there are in "right" than "left". Totally useless information; whenever I am on a boat, the captain always assumes the people don't know port and starboard and talks about left or right.

[Larry Browning]

I have yet to use anything from my American and Brit Lit classes for anything remotely productive.

And I disagree that proper spelling and grammar are still required for jobs--even in jobs where one would think those disciplines would be a given. I see errors in the newspapers from time to time, and I see major flubs in TV news graphics frequently--mistakes I would not have made as a freshman in HS. (I didn't mind grammar and spelling classes--those were easy. I hated writing with a passion, though. I didn't much care for history, either, but I could probably make a go of it now.)
Well, we will just have to agree to disagree. Apparently you and I live in different worlds. I am a software developer and often sit in on job interviews. If an applicant, has problems speaking at least somewhat proper English, or has a poorly written resume, they are not even given a second thought. This job requires that we speak with our users in an intelligent way, and that we write documentation that can be clearly understood.
I have a colleague with very poor language skills, who I believe otherwise should have advanced to a much higher level in our company. His lack of using proper grammar and misuse of words has held him back.

The benefits of reading literature are often subtle. Did you ever consider that reading and discussing those books has aided you in understanding other things, such as manuals and training material. Maybe it taught you how to read between the lines, or to understand symbolism. Maybe it didn't do that for you, but then again, maybe it did.

[Bill Edwards(2)]

Well, we will just have to agree to disagree. Apparently you and I live in different worlds. I am a software developer and often sit in on job interviews. If an applicant, has problems speaking at least somewhat proper English, or has a poorly written resume, they are not even given a second thought. This job requires that we speak with our users in an intelligent way, and that we write documentation that can be clearly understood.


I understand! Last time I had to deal with users on a new project in Accounts Payables,
I had to quote from "Little Women" several times.:D:D:D

And yes there are 26 letters. In computer terms A-I make the first group, J-R the
second and S-Z the third. The reason for the odd grouping is that the original
80 column (Hollerith) cards were not always real accurate and the zone punch
for the third group was so cloase to the 9th digit hole, they were concerned about
mis-reads.

Talk about useless information. ROFL!

[Greg Peterson]

Larry, I'm with you. Reading, writing and arithmetic are the foundation of society and an efficient workplace. For the folks that feel the need to make English the official language, we would do well to learn it ourselves before we demand others to learn it.

[Jason Roehl]

Larry, I'm not saying they shouldn't be, I'm just saying I see lots of evidence among those employed that proper grammar and spelling have gone on the back burner for some time in this country.

And I'm talking about the non-trades world. I won't even go into what I see amongst tradesmen. I'm surprised many of them remember to breathe on a regular basis.

As for the Lit classes, I was mostly annoyed that they didn't take into account all the reading I liked to do--at the time, I was up-to-date on Tom Clancy and Stephen King. (I figure that outside of class-required reading, I read well over 10,000 pages worth of novels as a sophomore in HS).

[Ken Fitzgerald]

I attended a junior HS where Glenn Pickel was the principal. This was a 2 story brick building with the tube fire escapes from the 2nd floor. Mr. Pickel had rules for students and a standard punishment for those who failed to conform. He would invite you to stay after school and he handed you the 8th grade math book. He told you to turn to the tables in the back and begin to copy them. Now a lot of folks found the information there useless but over the years I have found it handy to know that there is 640 acres per square mile, 2.54 centimeters per inch, 3.28 feet per yard etc. Now typically one doesn't learn this by just attending one of these after school "tutoring" sessions. I know I didn't. LOL.

[John Coloccia]

Interesting where this thread has gone. I was thinking more along the lines that knowing there are 26 letters in the alphabet is, for most people, a useless piece of trivia. Knowing what to do with the letters is far more important.

Another one is knowing the colors of the rainbow. How many colors in the rainbow? Roy G Biv. All that nonsense. Why is that the least bit important? Far from it, it's detrimental because in fact there are numerous different colors that cover the entire visible spectrum of the sun. Which color is on the outside and which color is on the inside? THAT's useful information because once you know how a rainbow works, you know something about the colors you're seeing....or knowing something about the colors you're seeing strongly implies how a rainbow works. It's pretty powerful knowledge. Now, just knowing some arbitrary colors that someone decided are THE official rainbow colors? Completely useless IMHO unless your goal is to draw a rainbow from scratch....but if you knew about rainbows and light, you could do that without Roy G Biv, so it's still useless.

[Larry Browning]

Jason,
Speaking of spelling. I have never been good at spelling and still am not. Let me just say that spell checkers are my friend! They make me look WAY smarter than I actually am:o
Also let me say, don't get me started on our education system! I will get way too political in a hurry, and I will get kicked off SMC:eek:

[Larry Browning]

Interesting where this thread has gone. I was thinking more along the lines that knowing there are 26 letters in the alphabet is, for most people, a useless piece of trivia. Knowing what to do with the letters is far more important.

Another one is knowing the colors of the rainbow. How many colors in the rainbow? Roy G Biv. All that nonsense. Why is that the least bit important? Far from it, it's detrimental because in fact there are numerous different colors that cover the entire visible spectrum of the sun. Which color is on the outside and which color is on the inside? THAT's useful information because once you know how a rainbow works, you know something about the colors you're seeing....or knowing something about the colors you're seeing strongly implies how a rainbow works. It's pretty powerful knowledge. Now, just knowing some arbitrary colors that someone decided are THE official rainbow colors? Completely useless IMHO unless your goal is to draw a rainbow from scratch....but if you knew about rainbows and light, you could do that without Roy G Biv, so it's still useless.
I suppose it could be said just about any piece of information can be useless to one person, while at the same time life changing to another.

[Brian Effinger]

Well, maybe in my younger days, when I got pulled over, it may have come in handy.........:D


Maybe if you learned them backwards.....

What kind of test is that anyway? I can't say them backwards as it is, never learned them that way.

It's a trick question. The cop just wants you to say "Geez officer, I can't even do that sober!" :D

[Steve Baumgartner]

I have always thought that the way we are usually taught history focuses on useless facts. What can you possibly do with knowledge of the date of the battle of Gettysburg?

[Charles Wiggins]

Be honest. Without counting, how many letters are there in the English alphabet? I can truthfully say that I have never, ever, ever used that little piece of knowledge. Not even once.

In my profession (librarian) no knowledge is useless. In fact, it used to be the norm that universities required their librarians to have a second master's degree so they could serve as subject specialists. Some still do, but that is becoming less and less common. I can't begin to relate all of the seemingly useless trivia that has suddenly become relevant because a student needed help finding information for a paper. If nothing else, it has saved me time finding that information again before I proceeded into research.

For example, I've seen several postings about pink yak milk. I already know that cows produce pink milk for a time after calving because I have a friend who is a dairy farmer. The pink is a tinge of blood in the milk that provides extra protein and nutrients for the calves. The pink normally disappears after the first couple of weeks but may continue to be part of the first few squirts at the beginning of milking and then the milk is white. I did some further research and it seems that this is common among all bovines, including yaks (or more properly naks - yaks are the male of the species). Otherwise nak milk is normally a rich creamy whitish color.

[Belinda Barfield]

[QUOTE=Charles Wiggins;1858748]including yaks (or more properly naks - yaks are the male of the species).

I wonder what important passwords I lost when I lodged pink nak milk into my memory bank. :D

[Sean Hughto]

Square roots are awfully helpful in woodworking as right triangles come up a lot, making the sum of the squares of the two side equal to the spuare of the hypotenuse formula (i.e., Pythagorean theorem) very handy.

[Mike Henderson]

Interesting where this thread has gone. I was thinking more along the lines that knowing there are 26 letters in the alphabet is, for most people, a useless piece of trivia. Knowing what to do with the letters is far more important.

Another one is knowing the colors of the rainbow. How many colors in the rainbow? Roy G Biv. All that nonsense. Why is that the least bit important? Far from it, it's detrimental because in fact there are numerous different colors that cover the entire visible spectrum of the sun. Which color is on the outside and which color is on the inside? THAT's useful information because once you know how a rainbow works, you know something about the colors you're seeing....or knowing something about the colors you're seeing strongly implies how a rainbow works. It's pretty powerful knowledge. Now, just knowing some arbitrary colors that someone decided are THE official rainbow colors? Completely useless IMHO unless your goal is to draw a rainbow from scratch....but if you knew about rainbows and light, you could do that without Roy G Biv, so it's still useless.
In a really good rainbow there are two or more arcs. The second arc is known as the supernumerary arc and is reversed in color from the primary arc. The space between the primary arc and the supernumerary arc is known as "Alexander's dark band", named after some guy back in the time of the Greeks who first noticed the effect. The physics behind rainbows is pretty interesting. As is the physics behind why the sky is blue.

Mike

[Jim Koepke]

I understood your post to be a hypothetical situation and that we were supposed to figure out from the information the name of the starting pitcher. The question was "Can you name the pitcher?" My thought process would have been different had the question been "Who was the starting pitcher?". After reading it many time I believe I came to correct answer. The name of the starting pitcher could not be determined given the information provided. So I stand by my answer, given this is a hypothetical situation. Or, was I over thinking again?

Hypothetical? It was based on a game that took place on June 23, 1917. If you go back to my original post or look at the quote below, you will see that I asked, "Can you name the starting pitcher?" The statement, "By today's rules this is not a perfect game." is not just a throw away.

Enough information was given for someone who knows a little bit about researching information to find the answer. Most of the lists I have come across listing the names of pitchers involved in perfect games lists Ernie Shore and the circumstances among the asterisks.


The original trivia question set up:

In a major league baseball game the first batter was walked. The starting pitcher argued with the umpire and was ejected from the game. The relieving pitcher came in to the game and picked off the runner on first. He then retired the next 26 batters. By today's rules this is not a perfect game.

Can you name the starting pitcher?

Funny thing is that most people with absolutely no knowledge of baseball guess this one and get the right answer.

The comment about "most people" was also a hint. At least 20 years ago, the one baseball player almost everyone knew of was Babe Ruth.

My error was the pitcher did not pick off the runner, he was caught stealing on a throw from the catcher. When I first learned of this 40 years ago, it only had the last names of the lead off batter and the umpire. Over the years the internet has added more information.

For me it was a trivia question on the radio. I quickly opened my Guinness Book of Records and found the answer. Friends of mine heard me on the radio and thought it was the funniest thing to hear me give my answer and then not be too enthused about winning the prize.


3.28 feet per yard etc. Now typically one doesn't learn this by just attending one of these after school "tutoring" sessions.

Typically one doesn't learn that anywhere!


I can remember starboard is to the right of the boat, when facing forward, and port is to the left. I remember this because there are more letters in starboard than port, just as there are in "right" than "left".

Most of my work around the marine world involved a heavy drinker for a boss. He taught me to ask, "any red port left?" That kind of covers that one and my knowledge of sailing is not much beyond that.

jtk

[Larry Browning]

Well, the fact is that I did misunderstand the whole point of the question. I have no ideas as to why I did, but I did. Now of course had I realized that it was a baseball trivia question, I would have known the answer to be Babe Ruth:D. Don't believe me?? Prove it!:D

[John Coloccia]

In a really good rainbow there are two or more arcs. The second arc is known as the supernumerary arc and is reversed in color from the primary arc. The space between the primary arc and the supernumerary arc is known as "Alexander's dark band", named after some guy back in the time of the Greeks who first noticed the effect. The physics behind rainbows is pretty interesting. As is the physics behind why the sky is blue.

Mike

I hate to pick nits, but you're describing a double rainbow. That's caused by two reflections in the droplets instead of one, hence the rainbow ends up upside down.

A supernumerary rainbow is different. I've never actually seen one in person. That's when you end up with multiple rainbows inside the arc of the main rainbow. It's a purely wave effect that can't be explained with ray tracing. It's actually interference occuring in the droplet.

[Bill Edwards(2)]

Having "used" useless information, does that make it useful?

[Mike Henderson]

I hate to pick nits, but you're describing a double rainbow. That's caused by two reflections in the droplets instead of one, hence the rainbow ends up upside down.

A supernumerary rainbow is different. I've never actually seen one in person. That's when you end up with multiple rainbows inside the arc of the main rainbow. It's a purely wave effect that can't be explained with ray tracing. It's actually interference occuring in the droplet.
Ah, you're right. I don't know if my knowledge was useless, but it was wrong.

Mike

[John Coloccia]

Having "used" useless information, does that make it useful?

LOL. I suppose so, but I don't consider knowing how a rainbow works useless information. I consider memorizing the "number of colors" of a rainbow, or ROY G BIV stupid because it doesn't convey any information...it merely names something. Forcing someone to memorize that there are 26 letters in the alphabet is stupid. If I know the alphabet, I can simply count them myself...and if I need to know it enough times I'll eventually memorize it.

Someone else mentioned dates of historical events. Maybe they're useless, maybe they're not. We're taught "Ferdinand was killed June 28, 1914 and this started WWI". So on the test, when they ask "What event on what specific date started WWI?" we think hard and we write "Archduke Ferdinand's assasination on Jan. 28 1914 started WWI"...and get docked 5 points because we wrote Jan instead of June. What have we learned? Absolutely nothing. WHY did that start WWI. What significance is it that Princip was Serbian? What conflicts were already in place?

It's useful to generally know that the order of events, and the basic timeframe, but does it really matter other than it happened in close proximity to the Great War and is generally considered a trigger?

That's the point. I don't know how everyone got off on grammar and actual USEFUL information in context. Of course, for every bit of information there will be SOMEONE that says, "Oh, I use that"...with billions of people on planet, I'm sure someone uses everything for something, if only to make up stupid questions on history tests.

[Larry Browning]

LOL. I suppose so, but I don't consider knowing how a rainbow works useless information. I consider memorizing the "number of colors" of a rainbow, or ROY G BIV stupid because it doesn't convey any information...it merely names something. Forcing someone to memorize that there are 26 letters in the alphabet is stupid. If I know the alphabet, I can simply count them myself...and if I need to know it enough times I'll eventually memorize it.

Someone else mentioned dates of historical events. Maybe they're useless, maybe they're not. We're taught "Ferdinand was killed June 28, 1914 and this started WWI". So on the test, when they ask "What event on what specific date started WWI?" we think hard and we write "Archduke Ferdinand's assasination on Jan. 28 1914 started WWI"...and get docked 5 points because we wrote Jan instead of June. What have we learned? Absolutely nothing. WHY did that start WWI. What significance is it that Princip was Serbian? What conflicts were already in place?

It's useful to generally know that the order of events, and the basic timeframe, but does it really matter other than it happened in close proximity to the Great War and is generally considered a trigger?

That's the point. I don't know how everyone got off on grammar and actual USEFUL information in context. Of course, for every bit of information there will be SOMEONE that says, "Oh, I use that"...with billions of people on planet, I'm sure someone uses everything for something, if only to make up stupid questions on history tests.

Ok, call me stupid, but who is Roy G Biv? and why should I care? Did he discover rainbows?

[Belinda Barfield]

Ah, you're right. I don't know if my knowledge was useless, but it was wrong.

Mike

Good grief, now I have to keep up with my useless wrong knowledge as well.


Ok, call me stupid, but who is Roy G Biv? and why should I care? Did he discover rainbows?

Colors of the rainbow in order, red orange yellow green blue indigo violet (I think that's right) and I didn't know I remembered this until just now.

Has anyone mentioned that no two people are exactly alike? :D

[John Coloccia]

Red orange yellow green blue indigo violet. It's a trick for remembering the colors of the rainbow in order.

LOL...don't worry about it, though. It's not all that important. :D

[Sean Hughto]

Ok, call me stupid, but who is Roy G Biv? and why should I care? Did he discover rainbows?

Roy G Biv is a mnemonic used to help rememeber the colors in a rainbow (i.e., colors that white light is devided into by a prism): red, orange, yellow, green, blue, indigo, violet.

[Mike Henderson]

Ok, call me stupid, but who is Roy G Biv? and why should I care? Did he discover rainbows?
In electrical work, resistors used to be marked with a color code and there was a mnemonic to remember how the colors equated to the numbers. It started with the phrase "Bad Boys...." for black and brown. You can see more of the resistor color code mnemonics here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_electronic_color_code_mnemonics).

Mike

[Did any of the other electrical people posting here learn the same mnemonic?]

[Belinda Barfield]

Speaking of rainbows and useless knowledge, Rainbow Brite's name was originally Wisp. Oh yeaaaah, Jeopardy here I come!

[Jim Koepke]

[Did any of the other electrical people posting here learn the same mnemonic?]

I didn't hear the mnemonic until long after I learned the color code.

Here is another mnemonic that some may recall, Tom Q Vaxey.

The people who know that one likely all had one school class in common.

And most likely before the 1990s.

I think some of us may be missing the point on why we had many of these things "forced" on us. It was the best way educators knew of to teach young minds how to remember and think. It may be useless, but having it shoved into our minds had a purpose.

jtk

[Jim Rimmer]

And the Great Lakes mnemonic- HOMES

[James Baker SD]

In electrical work, resistors used to be marked with a color code and there was a mnemonic to remember how the colors equated to the numbers. It started with the phrase "Bad Boys...." for black and brown. You can see more of the resistor color code mnemonics here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_electronic_color_code_mnemonics).

Mike

[Did any of the other electrical people posting here learn the same mnemonic?]

I did, but I am so color blind it didn't help :-)

[Larry Edgerton]

My granddaughter asked me what the colors of the rainbow are last weekend and I had to look it up.

Bring it on, ask me now.......

Larry

[Rick Moyer]

I think some of us may be missing the point on why we had many of these things "forced" on us. It was the best way educators knew of to teach young minds how to remember and think. It may be useless, but having it shoved into our minds had a purpose.

jtk

I think that's the greater point. All information can be useful, some just more, or more often, than others. Memorization or "useless" facts or knowledge is at the very least exercising the mind, something we would all benefit from. Some stuff I know I suspect I'll never have a need for but it's sorta fun just to know it. I can still compute a square root from doing the math but it's largely unnecessary anymore. Some things I memorized out of silliness, or learned merely out of curiosity, and may never really need to know. Now does any of this actually make you more intelligent? I say only marginally. I would say that having knowledge is not the same as being intelligent. The former is knowing facts and information, whereas the latter is the relative abilty to learn and apply that knowledge.
So, is some information useless? I would say no, no information is useless.

[Lornie McCullough]

I am going to apologise for not having read every comment in this thread.

Then I am going out on a limb, and say, "There is no such thing as useless knowledge."

Lornie

[John M Wilson]

Avogadro's number (no, it's not how many you need to make guacamole).

I fear most of our secondary and collegiate level instruction is designed to make us feel stressed about the process;
it's an indication of who will submit to a professional discipline and gives the appearance of value for tuition.

Had the Khan academy been available when I attended University, I may have passed basic physics/calculus/organic chemistry.

I know a few physicians - NONE can recall anything pertinent from the these endeavors - so why were they so tasked?

I was a mechanical engineer for a large automobile maker for 33 years. When I retired, I decided to go back to school & got a masters in teaching. I now teach high school physics & chemistry.

At the beginning of the year, I ask the students to reflect on the slightly hypothetical question "why do you need to know this stuff?" Since most of them have no intention of being chemists or physicists, they struggle to answer.

I give them an answer out of my past: when I was an engineering student, I was in a co-op program. I quickly figured out that even the most technical of the engineers I worked with didn't use much calculus, and the vast majority used none at all. This caused me to lose interest in my multivariate calculus and differential equations classes. One day my math professor made an example of me in front of the whole class -- he asked me why my grades had plummeted. With the cocky self-assurance that only a 19-year old can master, I told him what I had observed at work, and let him know that I didn't "need to learn any of this stuff." In a booming voice he shouted: "Mr. Wilson! I am not trying to teach you your job, I'm trying to teach you HOW TO THINK!"

That's why physicians, engineers, and other folks who are supposed to think for a living have to learn those subjects -- not for the material per se, but to train and adapt the mind to logically solve problems, and use the information at hand to make wise choices.

[Jason Roehl]

... 3.28 feet per yard etc. Now typically one doesn't learn this by just attending one of these after school "tutoring" sessions. I know I didn't. LOL.

Now, I don't know what useless information school you went to, but in all the ones I did (and we moved several times--K thru 12 took me through 9 different schools in 6 different school systems in 3 countries and 2 U.S. states), there were only 3 feet per yard. ;) I suspect you meant per meter, but I'm too tired to bother to figure that one out, as the conversion I learned was 39.37 inches per meter. :rolleyes:

P.S. The information in the parentheses above is utterly and completely useless unless you start to ponder why I'm "not right in the head"...

[Shawn Pixley]

This thread is very interesting. I unfortunately, have the inability to forget even the most trivial thing I ever learned. This is both a blessing and a curse. It has caused real problems in my life as well as given me some advantages.

I think that there are two advantages to retaining this sort of information. It shows an intellectual curiousity, the ability to think, the ability to apply knowlege elsewhere, and communicate it. Additionally, it allows for the application of learning to other situations. Just today we were debating the contributions of a flawed individual (it is review season at work). I brought up the contributions of flawed individuals such as Heisenberg or Haber. One cannot deny the contributions of these Nobel Prize winners. Yet at the same time, we all can lament the later actions of these two men. It defused what was a tense situation and allowed an external situation to better debate the merits of various points at hand.

On the other hand, i have no real need to remember every phone number I have ever had, yet I still do. Insomnia because I can't turn my brain off at night is no picnic.

[Jim Matthews]

I have always thought that the way we are usually taught history focuses on useless facts. What can you possibly do with knowledge of the date of the battle of Gettysburg?

We're also taught what the winners of historical battles recount (http://sundown.afro.illinois.edu/liesmyteachertoldme.php).
What's worst about this notion is that we're indoctrinated as children, rather than developed as critical thinkers.

[Jim Matthews]

Fine - then make the exercises germane.

I still hold that sixteen hours with the Khan Academy kicked the teeth out of my expensive collegiate instruction.
In University settings, there are armies of disaffected graduate teaching "assistants" forced to deal with daunting numbers of students.

These TAs are tasked with the rote steps in the process and can make or break academic careers.
They are, not coincidentally, in the position of teaching people how to think - and provide a miserable example of what success looks like in academia.

Knowing how to use a library is of greater value than memorizing the encyclopedia.

[John Coloccia]

Knowing how to use a library is of greater value than memorizing the encyclopedia.

Yes, precisely the point of the thread.

I turn everyone I know onto Khan Academy, btw.

[Steve Friedman]

I hate to pick nits, but you're describing a double rainbow. That's caused by two reflections in the droplets instead of one, hence the rainbow ends up upside down.

Double Rainbow:
http://FunnyOrDie.com/m/43ri

[Bill Edwards(2)]

Knowing how to use a library is of greater value than memorizing the encyclopedia.

+2 I always taught new programmers that knowing where to get the answer was more
important then knowing the answer.

[Ryan Mooney]

... foot of the plywood extending over the table top edge, you can hit the plywood close to the edge hard enough to break it before it will separate from the paper
The reverse trick where you put a sheet of newspaper over a wooden rule with the end of the rule sticking off of the table, then you can break the rule with a sharp blow is rather amusing as well.


Avogadro's number (no, it's not how many you need to make guacamole).
That's Avocados number and perhaps the most delicious number of all (excepting perhaps Bacons constant).



I have yet to use anything from my American and Brit Lit classes for anything remotely productive.
Same except for amusing anecdotes about how I would write my own poetry to analyze and then have the teacher vehemently disagree with what the "poets intentions" were. Never failed to crack me up, all the pretentious BS.


Well that and being able to utilize obfuscatory verbiage for fun and profit.

I think that actually highlights one of the main undeclared advantages of useless knowledge, it allows one to act like a superior prig (not that I've ever been guilty of that.. noo.... but awareness comes late to some folks...).

[Bryan Morgan]

Be honest. Without counting, how many letters are there in the English alphabet? I can truthfully say that I have never, ever, ever used that little piece of knowledge. Not even once.

I have a theory that your brain is a conveyor belt... as long as you pick up the info and move it to the front from time to time its still there. If you don't, it falls off into the abyss. :)

Although I sometimes think mine is running in reverse as I remember the useless things but can't remember the important ones!

[Rick Potter]

Jim hit it on the proverbial head about knowing how to use the library rather than memorizing the encyclopedia.

I certainly don't know everything, but I know where to look it up. Sometimes right here in the off topic forum.:rolleyes:

Rick P

[Jim Koepke]

Jim hit it on the proverbial head about knowing how to use the library rather than memorizing the encyclopedia.

I certainly don't know everything, but I know where to look it up. Sometimes right here in the off topic forum.:rolleyes:

Rick P

That sounds like something Henry Ford said when he was on trial for being incompetent at running his company.

They were asking him questions in an attempt to show he was a moron. He answered that he may not know the answer to the question, but his skill was in being able to find people who did know the answer to questions. Or something to the same effect.

jtk

[ray hampton]

I was a mechanical engineer for a large automobile maker for 33 years. When I retired, I decided to go back to school & got a masters in teaching. I now teach high school physics & chemistry.

At the beginning of the year, I ask the students to reflect on the slightly hypothetical question "why do you need to know this stuff?" Since most of them have no intention of being chemists or physicists, they struggle to answer.

I give them an answer out of my past: when I was an engineering student, I was in a co-op program. I quickly figured out that even the most technical of the engineers I worked with didn't use much calculus, and the vast majority used none at all. This caused me to lose interest in my multivariate calculus and differential equations classes. One day my math professor made an example of me in front of the whole class -- he asked me why my grades had plummeted. With the cocky self-assurance that only a 19-year old can master, I told him what I had observed at work, and let him know that I didn't "need to learn any of this stuff." In a booming voice he shouted: "Mr. Wilson! I am not trying to teach you your job, I'm trying to teach you
That's why physicians, engineers, and other folks who are supposed to think for a living have to learn those subjects -- not for the material per se, but to train and adapt the mind to logically solve problems, and use the information at hand to make wise choices.
HOW TO THINK!" this is funny in a way because one of my teacher keep telling my fellow students that we did not get pay to "think"

[Rick Potter]

Jim,

Ol' Henry was nobodies fool. That reminds me of another useless bit of trivia. The old story about Henry Ford saying you can have any color as long as it's black was true. It wasn't because he refused to change, it was because in the early days the black paint dried much faster than other colors, and the assembly line could move faster. I think the paint then was called 'Japaning'.

Ohhhh, that was a double trivia.

Rick Potter

[Bill Edwards(2)]

COLORS: All cars were painted a very dark, all-but-black, blue. Black is reported as an available color but Ford records do not indicate black as a standard color. A few Red Open Runabouts and green Town Cars were built in April 1911. It is possible that there were green early 1911 models; the date of the body change is unknown but both “blue” and “green” cars were built in later 1910 (after the 1910 fiscal year ended).
Fenders and aprons were painted body color, although either blue or black, might have been used, based on surviving samples. Records indicate only blue, however.
Striping of fenders and running gear began to be phased out about July on many cars.

__________________


By 1918, half of all the cars in the US were Model T’s. However it was a monolithic bloc; Ford wrote in his autobiography that he told his management team in 1909 that in the future “Any customer can have a car painted any color that he wants so long as it is black”.
However, in the first years of production from 1908 to 1914, the Model T was not available in black but rather only grey, green, blue, and red. Green was available for the touring cars, town cars, coupes, and Landaulets. Grey was only available for the town cars, and red only for the touring cars. By 1912, all cars were being painted midnight blue with black fenders. It was only in 1914 that the "any color as long as it is black" policy was finally implemented. It is often stated that Ford suggested the use of black from 1914 to 1926 due to the cheap cost and durability of black paint. During the lifetime production of the Model T, over 30 different types of black paint were used on various parts of the car. These were formulated to satisfy the different means of applying the paint to the various parts, and had distinct drying times, depending on the part, paint, and method of drying.

[Jim Matthews]

Insomnia because I can't turn my brain off at night is no picnic.

This is why children were invented; you're so exhausted at the end of each bickering session (also known as a "school day") that sleep is inescapable.
Insomniacs are people who's minds are actively engaged, parents are people who's minds have become ballast.

[Hilel Salomon]

I'm not sure what is "useless knowledge?" If you mean knowledge that you do not put to use, as I suspect, then I couldn't disagree more. The process of acquiring knowledge is itself useful. When you put your mind to work, even if it is the act of memorizing or remembering, you are, in effect, using your brain. As with almost any other part of your body, disuse is unhealthy. Now, having said that, too many teachers concentrate on the "what" rather than the "why." One should use the "what" in order to explain the "why." That is where intellectual discipline enters.
Personally, I think that college students who have not taken math (calculus or higher) or studied grammatical syntax have missed out on magnificent tools which provide mental discipline. There was a good reason for requiring Latin and calculus in high school, and it is painfully obvious that the end of such requirements has done our country a disservice.

[ray hampton]

what good is math. if the students can not write
hand writing seems to be a dying art among the students of today schools

[Rick Potter]

Ray,

Some public schools in my area have stopped teaching cursive handwriting. They teach the kids to print and that's it.

Rick Potter

[Larry Klaaren]

[QUOTE= "Shore retired all twenty-six batters he faced, for which he was credited with a perfect game (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfect_game) until the 1990s."[/QUOTE]

Wasn't the issue that all 27 batters were retired in order in a perfect game. Then it was changed to not letting any batter reach base. By that definition you can't walk a batter or hit them and still get a perfect game. Don't forget that ll the fielders have to play an errorless game also.

[Mike Archambeau]

mmmm have you considered decaf?

[Jon Knauft]

One day long ago I was bored and decided to memorize "Pi" to 50 places. Never used it beyond the usual 3.14 but I'm still hoping!

[Rick Moyer]

One day long ago I was bored and decided to memorize "Pi" to 50 places. Never used it beyond the usual 3.14 but I'm still hoping!
That's fuuny, as I decided to memorize the square root of 17 (no idea why), but I only went to about 10 decimals or so......
Let's see: 4.1231056276 ... that's as much as I remember anymore
that was at least 35 years ago. Funny how the brain works (or doesn't) sometimes.

[Chris Kennedy]

I have followed this thread with interest.

Going right back to the topic of the thread, the information that sticks in my mind was learning to interpolate logs. We learned to interpolate logs at a time when scientific calculators were dirt cheap. It used to drive me crazy that my math teacher was teaching me to interpolate from a log table, while my chem teacher just assumed we would punch it up on our calculators.

I think this ranks up their with cursive writing. Cursive looks nice and you can write faster in cursive, but when it comes down to it, I can type far faster than I can write in script. Moreover, when I am at a chalkboard, I can print much faster than I can write in cursive.

So, on the one hand, you have to look at the utility involved in these matters. Will society fail if we cannot interpolate logs or not write in cursive?

And that brings us to one of the other major points in this thread. There are plenty of things that we learn that we may not individually realize the utility of, but we, as a society, need. I can honestly say that I have never interpolated a single log since 10th grade, but we need, as a society, to know what logs are and we need practitioners that know how they work. (Honestly, I am not certain I can make the same justification for cursive -- sorry.)

Cheers,

Chris

[Ed Aumiller]

Info that we consider useless today MAY be very important tomorrow.... I took typing in high school just to be in a class of all girls (1962)... 4 years later I was working for Western Union on computers and the simple (useless at the time I learned it) fact that I knew how to position my hands on a keyboard was very beneficial to know...
(Incidentally, I was thrown out of typing class before the second semester)

[Van Huskey]

One day long ago I was bored and decided to memorize "Pi" to 50 places. Never used it beyond the usual 3.14 but I'm still hoping!

I never bothered past what my "best" calculator displayed 3.14159265

Funny, I was hanging out at a freinds house and noticed he had a collection of slide rules, he still uses them and waxed poetic about the advantages over a calculator, I zoned out after 15 seconds...