using hand tools for dadoes ?

[Matthew N. Masail]

which tools would one need to cover all of his dado needs? I do not own not will I ever (most likely) own a table saw, those things scare the $%@ out of me. I can use a router but I'm not fond of it as much as I love hand tools.
so besides a skew rabbet block plane and a plow plane, what will I need to cover all my dado needs? I'm assuming a large router plane will be in order, but how can you guide it for a straight cut in the middle of a large panel?

Thanks in advance, I'd rather spend a ton on specialized hand tools than risk loosing a finger (I'm a classical guitar player before a carpenter at the moment).

[Jack Curtis]

which tools would one need to cover all of his dado needs? I do not own not will I ever (most likely) own a table saw, those things scare the $%@ out of me. I can use a router but I'm not fond of it as much as I love hand tools.
so besides a skew rabbet block plane and a plow plane, what will I need to cover all my dado needs? I'm assuming a large router plane will be in order, but how can you guide it for a straight cut in the middle of a large panel?...

All you really need is a chisel the same width as the dado or smaller, hammer/mallet, and a ruler (or you could use the piece of wood you plan to dado on edge to mark the dado). Optional, which might make it a little easier/faster: a mid-panel saw (azebiki or stair saw), router plane, side rebate plane(s), and a grooving/dado plane.

Jack

[Mark Baldwin III]

A while back I did a short post on my blog about doing a stopped dado. The method I used was taken from bits of advice from others here. I used a tenon saw, chisel, and router plane. Layout was done with a square and marking knife. I did the write up on stopped dadoes because they are slightly more difficult than a through dado. At some point, I'd like to make or buy a stair saw for this, but it's not necessary.

http://milwaukeemonastery.blogspot.com/2011/11/cutting-stopped-dado.html (http://milwaukeemonastery.blogspot.com/2011/11/taming-of-skew-revisited.html)

[Matthew N. Masail]

I know this will sound stupid but Wow, thanks guy. I'm thinking I can save on the plow plane and skew rabbet plane too if I use a big router plane, a good knife (I ordered some by hock) and chisels, for drawer groves and rabbets until I can afford those more easily. one question though, should
I get some HSS chisels to handle dado's in plywood, or will my white steel ones hold up? again I'd just like to mention that all the tools I have are either in storage or on the way, waiting for me to move to place with a big enough room to open a shop, and since I have to order from abroad I have to ask before I buy, and that's why I'm not checking it out for myself.

Mark, I'm really enjoying your blog !

[Zach Dillinger]

My favorite method is to saw the shoulders with a backsaw and then chisel / gouge out the waste, very close to the final depth. A few passes with the router plane will finish it up. Works very well and is very fast.

[jamie shard]

My favorite method is to saw the shoulders with a backsaw and then chisel / gouge out the waste, very close to the final depth. A few passes with the router plane will finish it up. Works very well and is very fast.

+1 chiseling out most of the waste is faster for sure.

[Mike Holbrook]

The large Veritas Router Plane has a fence as an option. The Veritas Small Plow Plane comes with a fence, but currently the largest imperial blade is 3/8". Most people seem to use the router plane more for cleaning dadoes. The router plane fence systems are not nearly as robust as those on Plow Planes. A popular method is to mark saw lines with a wide sharp chisel that keeps a saw in the chisel's V groove. If you saw the dado cheeks, the router plane can get in there & cut out waste, although it might be faster to start with a chisel sized to the dado. Many people actually mark dado sizes with the chisel they plan to use in it. The Plow Plane is usually more of a tool for smaller grooves where the one plane can do all/most of the work.

[John Powers]

You can set depth on a stair saw. You score edges of dado with a sharp knife, Stair saw done to desired depth and use your incredibly sharp veretas 1/2 inch router blade in your old stanley router plane to remove waste. I don't do this often so I'll yield to the gurus but it works fine for me.

[Pedro Reyes]

I use a crosscut backsaw (like a carcass saw) for dadoes (technically x-cuts). Like others have said, mark with knife, saw the lines with your saw, chisel out waste. I am no chisel-ninja, but I can leave them fairly flat for their use, when more precision is called for, I finish off with router plane, but while I consider a router plane one of the "essentials", not in this case.

You mentioned drawer groves, those are generally groves (with the grain) not dadoes (across), so for that nothing beats my record #50(except a Lee Valley small plow plane ;)) but a #50 is generally not that expensive.

http://i655.photobucket.com/albums/uu274/pars73/116-1656_IMG.jpg

http://i655.photobucket.com/albums/uu274/pars73/116-1658_IMG.jpg

hope this helps.

/p

PS: I am also not a photography-ninja, but I didn't ahve to tell you that.

[Mike Siemsen]

Dados are cut with a dado plane. You nail a stick to the side of the case where the dado will go and you run you dado plane along it. They have stops for depth and come in different widths. Stop dados were uncommon in hand built furniture.

[Matthew N. Masail]

what kind of blade/teeth would work well for a stair saw? seems like it would be the quickest way to saw down to depth

[Matthew N. Masail]

Mike is this what would be called a dado plane http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=46324&cat=1,41182,41192&ap=1

[Matthew N. Masail]

I found this thread http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?139680-Stair-saw-tooth-geometry

[John Coloccia]

For a second there, I thought it said "using hand tools for dodos" and I thought to myself, "Finally, a thread I can relate to". Oh, well...carry on.

[Pedro Reyes]

Mike is this what would be called a dado plane http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=46324&cat=1,41182,41192&ap=1

Firstly, while dado planes are used for cutting dadoes, I don't consider them essential unless you will be doing tons of dadoes, and certainly you can cut dadoes without them.

And the picture you see there is just a rabbet. A dado plane would have nickers on the sides to slice the fibers ahead of the iron. I have a couple of dado planes, sharpening and set up sometimes makes it more troublesome than using the saw/chisel method.

/p

[Matthew N. Masail]

Thanks Pedro, I don't think I need them either.. John just out of curiosity, what did you think the thread was about?

[John Coloccia]

Thanks Pedro, I don't think I need them either.. John just out of curiosity, what did you think the thread was about?

Ah...I detect a slight language/culture gap here :) A Dodo is an extinct bird, but we use the name idiomatically to refer to someone who's a bit dopey and slow. I figured hey, that's my kind of thread :)

[Jim Koepke]

A few things on cutting dados comes to mind.

I tend to cut dados with chisels. Almost all of my dados are stopped dados. A dado is just a big cross grain mortise when you get down to it.

Using a saw to define the lines can be frustrating if one doesn't first cut the end of the dado for the saw dust to escape. For me just getting it done with chisels is faster. Through dados are a different story.

Another point to consider is that it will be much easier to cut a 19 mm dado with an 18 mm chisel that the other way around. Cutting a 19 mm dado with a 19 mm chisel can lead to chipping out at the edges of the dado.

I do not work in plywood so I am not sure about which chisels would be best.

Cutting a groove with the grain is going to work much better with a plow plane. Lots of those available in the second hand market.

jtk

[Matthew N. Masail]

Ah...I detect a slight language/culture gap here :) A Dodo is an extinct bird, but we use the name idiomatically to refer to someone who's a bit dopey and slow. I figured hey, that's my kind of thread :)

L-O-L !! yeah... definitely a gap... oyy... my wife is American and it's crazy how much we miss communicate, as if marriage isn't challenging enough as it is. even though I'm originally from South Africa and my first language IS English.
But, I was stupid (in other words dopey) enough to cut myself on a sliding miter saw with a blade guard... so there's your thread. might be fun "stupidest woodworking accident you ever had".

P.S
I have good Lonny-ton about the dodo... :)

[Mark Roderick]

This might be totally inappropriate, but once you do a dozen of those by hand you might re-consider a router!

[Matthew N. Masail]

It's totally appropriate, and you may be right, but there is something so wonderful about hand tools, I feel 1000000 times more in control and actually involved with the work. I'd rather spend 700$ on joinery planes than the same on a router and bits (which is what it costs here).

[Jerome Hanby]

This might be totally inappropriate, but once you do a dozen of those by hand you might re-consider a router!

I'd like to point out that while I've thought this ever since this thread started, I wasn't the first to say it <g>.

[Jim Koepke]

This might be totally inappropriate, but once you do a dozen of those by hand you might re-consider a router!

I have done a lot by router and gave up on that a few years ago.

Hand tools make mistakes slower.

jtk

[Chris Griggs]

This might be totally inappropriate, but once you [cut off your] hand you might re-consider a router!

mwwwhahahahahahah:D

[James Carmichael]

Ah...I detect a slight language/culture gap here :) A Dodo is an extinct bird, but we use the name idiomatically to refer to someone who's a bit dopey and slow. I figured hey, that's my kind of thread :)

John,
The two should be mutually exclusive. Dodos should never cut dadoes:-)
I still fire up the tailed router for them.

[Joshua Clark]

Wooden dado planes are very easy to tune up and use. So long as they aren't warped there isn't much that can go wrong with them. They are the fastest way to cut a dado by far. They are also a lot of fun to use. Good, usable planes aren't terribly expensive and you only need a few sized for the work you do.

Videos of a couple of dado planes in use:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MgdV4eHrXTE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXhdN1Vl_20

[Matthew N. Masail]

cool planes....