Planning a batch of chairs.....

[Carl Beckett]

Chairs always take a lot of time - this time its going to be 4 basic chairs for every day use.

The key joint in my experience is the back leg to side stretcher (sorry about the lack of correct terminology). This joint takes a lot of stress - leaning back creates a moment with the full weight of the person on it.

So I was going to do a relatively deep tenon, and then pin it. The legs will be hard maple and the side stretchers either hard maple or possibly walnut. I thought about draw-pinning, but a coarse long grain pin like oak would be out of place on this piece. Maybe cherry, maple, or walnut pins would work - does anyone have experience with draw pinning using a pin in one of these materials?

Alternatively I will just put a healthy tenon - then drill/pin (not drawn). And then I was going to put a corner brace at a 45 across the joint, and slide this corner brace in via a dovetail slot coming from the bottom (the top will be an exposed edge so need to bring this up from the bottom). It will take some precision to line it all up (times 16!!), but think I can get there. This will help transfer any bending moment of the slide stretcher right across to the back cross member (also a tenon) - which should really help with stiffness.

Any thoughts? Anyone have experience on making this joint robust?

[Mark Salomon]

The corner brace is very necessary, although you can use screws/glue instead of a sliding dovetail. Drawboring/pinning works well when you are clamping something wider than your largest clamp. I don't think that drawboring has much utility for fine furniture (ever notice what the pin does to your board when it blows out the other side?; how many pieces of fine furniture have you seen that have draw bored tenons?). You can pin the tenon if you like but if the joint is well constructed I don't think that it adds much given the strength of modern glues.

[Mike Henderson]

Don't put a pin in at all. Your corner block will hold the joint together when the glue fails - and just use screws for the corner blocks. I've repaired chairs where the joint was absolutely loose but the corner block was still holding everything together. The chair was wobbly but they used it for a lot of years.

The pin will not provide any advantage but the corner block will.

Mike

[Thomas Hotchkin]

Carl
Jell Miller's book Chairmaking & Design by Taunton Press has a lot of good info on this joint. Tom

[Carl Beckett]

Carl
Jell Miller's book Chairmaking & Design by Taunton Press has a lot of good info on this joint. Tom

Thanks for the reference Tom, indeed a perfect resource.

And hello to Battle Ground - I was a decade in Vancouver so have a few friends there in BG.

To Mikes point - I have heard wisdom on chairs suggesting to never make a joint that isnt repairable. That over the years pretty much anything will loosen just due to the stress it takes, so do joints that can be reworked/retightened.

These will be users - Im not too worried if they get destroyed. But at the same time, given it WILL take some time/effort to make them, I cant help myself but shoot for something nice (Not making a masterpiece - so its a balance of efficiency and actually completing the project, over sophisticated design)

Not drawn, but I DO see a lot of arts/crafts style furniture with pins.... (and have pinned several chairs I have made in the past). Also I see (and even own) a number of chairs that DO NOT have the corner brace, but this seemed like a good idea to me at least.

Thanks for all the insights!!

[Stephen Cherry]

I don't think that drawboring has much utility for fine furniture (ever notice what the pin does to your board when it blows out the other side?; how many pieces of fine furniture have you seen that have draw bored tenons?). You can pin the tenon if you like but if the joint is well constructed I don't think that it adds much given the strength of modern glues.I think that most of the good chairs from the past were held together with sticks. Here's an example from the Wintertur museum, and they do not have much that would not be considered fine furniture. In my opinion, the whole idea of a chairmaking should differentiate from the chairs that are available from target for 2 for 150 dollars. If you want a glued together chair that will look OK, last well enough for a while, and generally serve the function of a chair, then it's cheaper and better to just go to target and get an OK chair. That said, not everyone wants to sit in a wobbly chair. So why not use the pegged mortise and tenon that has shown itself to last a very long time? In my mind, the pegged mortise and tenon joint, particularly with a through tenon for the side rail to rear leg joint is strong, and looks strong.
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[Carl Beckett]

Thanks Stephen,

This is what I meant by 'pins'. Maybe I meant 'pegs'?

[Michael Peet]

After building my bench with drawbored mortise and tenon joints, I am a believer. I plan to use this joinery method wherever possible.

Mike