Silly Question About Drill Presses

[Jared McMahon]

My next major purchase will be a drilling machine, either a drill press or a mill/drill. Among the other key aspects in choosing one is quill travel... but it occurred to me I wasn't sure why. It seems like bits often don't have very long shanks, and run-out (presumably) becomes more of an issue at the extreme of quill travel. This question could very well be born out of ignorance, but with all that said, how useful is it really to have 5"+ travel as opposed to something more conservative like 3-1/2" or 4"?

Ladies and gentlemen, please enlighten me.

[Kent A Bathurst]

I had your basic Delta 14-1/2" DP. Forget the quill travel - 3" maybe?

Anyway - that did not routinely come up as a problem, but when it did, it was a real pain. One annoying detail that comes up frequently is that the shorter quill travel means you are adjusting the table height more often, to get within the travel range for that workpiece and bit length. But beyond that, when you need a deeper hole [and my 1/2" bradpoint is 6", plus I have some extra-length bits], you have to securely clamp the workpiece in place, drill as far as you can, raise the table - being very careful to stay in line - and drill again. Then, reverse those steps to get your bit out.

My current DP has 6" travel. Very nice. I can't give you the $ value tradeoff - doubt that number actually exists - but I'd pay more for the longer travel.

[Brad Patch]

My vintage WalkerTurner quill travel is in the 3.5-4 inch range. While it would be nice to have more travel, I can't remember a instance where I really needed more travel.

I previously used a Jet Floor model drill press, what a piece POS. Supplied chuck very crude, fit and finish poor, excessive vibration,no quill lock. Could never make it drill a deep hole without the bit wandering (probably due to quill tolerances.)

I would strongly suggest to hold out for a well maintained vintage USA made machine.

[Van Huskey]

My next major purchase will be a drilling machine, either a drill press or a mill/drill. Among the other key aspects in choosing one is quill travel... but it occurred to me I wasn't sure why. It seems like bits often don't have very long shanks, and run-out (presumably) becomes more of an issue at the extreme of quill travel. This question could very well be born out of ignorance, but with all that said, how useful is it really to have 5"+ travel as opposed to something more conservative like 3-1/2" or 4"?

Ladies and gentlemen, please enlighten me.

As with most things it all depends on what you are going to be drilling. I would say that 99% of MY drilling while I have been woodworking could have been done with just over 3" of stroke.

I am all for having TIR low and it does mutiply with longer bits and with most drill presses it is worse at full travel than at 1-2" BUT if you are working completely with wood I have rarely if ever seen runout be an issue. Now if the DP has a stupid high TIR then it can be an issue with wood but then you have a DP that is not functioning correctly.

[pat warner]

Good question.
In my view, lengthy quill travel is a way out of a compromised setup but at the expense of runout, (as you suggest). Appreciate, that a drill is a long rod supported at only one end untill it's ~1 diameter in its target. As such, and runout being the enemy it is, the shortest drill possible is the most likely drill to drill on center with the least amount of squiggle. A long drill and substantial quill travel invite runout.
Note, unless deep holes without secondary drilling operations are standard dalliances, the extended quill travel is usually not exploited. If you hate changing table height, close order center drilling is not required, nor are secondary/tertiary drilling operations ordinary, then extended quill travel will be appreciated.
Do dig, however, that 6+"of quill travel demands good & expensive quill assembly & engineering as well as 3 support bearings minimum.

[Jared McMahon]

I had a response half-way written but I was worried it would turn this thread into a series of horror stories and disputes about bad drill press makes and models. So instead I'll just say thanks for the opinions and thoughts, it helps put things in context. Given my shop set-up, my current tools and my applications, it's looking like I'd be wise to get a mill/drill that makes reasonable compromises on things like quill stroke in exchange for the capabilities it provides in other respects.

And I'm keeping my bit brace close by. ;)

[Eddie Darby]

I work with large Forstner bits, larger than the drill press chuck, and usually have to drill 5+ inches in depth, so for me a 6" quill travel is a must.

If you are drilling on a workpiece that has many different levels to it, the ability to slide the thick workpiece under the chuck until you reach the deeper part of the workpiece without having to crank the table up and down for each piece, is more efficient.

If the table didn't swing about, and loose it's centering, when cranking it up and down, then quill travel would not be so important.

[Jay Rasmussen]

Jared,
Mill/Drill, if you can swing the cost I highly recommend getting one. After two drill presses that’s what I have. I was able to get a used one at a great price but still not cheap. I think the M/D offers 10X the capabilities compared to a drill press. Everything wood related as well as metal working. Great for making brackets and miscellaneous parts for wood working fixtures. Mine has a digital readout and X axis power feed. With a little imagination setups are endless.
Mine has 5" of quill travel with a great stop.

[Brent VanFossen]

My 8" drill press has less than 2 inches of quill travel. Let's say I need a 3/8 diameter hole through a part 1 1/2 inches thick. I set the table and drill the hole.

Now, let's say I want a 1/8 inch hole through the same part. I remove the big bit, and insert the small one (which is also probably shorter). I'll often find that the small bit is too short to drill the hole because the quill travel isn't long enough to compensate. I can raise the table, but the table will shift when I do it, and that will throw off any fence or stop I have set up.

With a longer quill travel (like the 6" travel on my 18-inch press), the quill travel is enough that I rarely have to move the table. The greater quill travel makes it so you don't often have to raise or lower the table. It gives you options beyond drilling deep holes.

[John Coloccia]

The only drill press under $1000 (and/or thereabouts) I would buy new today is the big Delta 18-900. I'm still not really happy with it because it's missing basic features (like a quill lock, for example...some will disagree but a plunge lock is not nearly the same as a quill lock...not from an ergonomic OR performance point of view...nope), but were I to buy one new, that's what I would buy and it seems to be reasonably well built. There are lots of metal working drill presses out there that are nice...they're expensive and none of them have articulating tables...at least none that I know of. You would typically clamp your metal work in a drill press vice and use that to tilt it.

Other than that, I would buy a good, used drill press, or if you want to save even more money, buy a mediocre used drill press. It won't be perfect and neither will a consumer grade new drill press...but at least it will be cheaper.

But I digress. Did you say something about quill travel? LOL. Yeah, it's nice to have, but a drill press that makes straight, clean holes is nicer to have IMHO, and it's surprisingly difficult to find one designed for woodworking. That said, the Delta seems pretty reasonable on both counts, though they insist on slapping this goofy laser on the thing which makes me think they're just getting lucky with the ones I've seen so far. I'd love to measure the runout on 20 or 30 of these things to see how they're really coming out.

I tried to buy a Mill/Drill last year, but Grizzly was backordered for several months, and I never got around to reinvestigating it. I've since lost interest. It's just as well as I don't believe the cheap mill/drill I was looking at would perform any better. It would probably be even more frustrating to have a tool that doesn't do two things well rather than just stick with what I have, which only doesn't do one thing well. :)

[glenn bradley]

I felt that 6" of quill was absolutely necessary when I was planning my DP upgrade. A great deal came along on a lesser machine with just under 4" of travel. Its been years and I have never even thought about it. Live and learn ;-)

[Jim German]

I have a small benchtop drill press and would love to have more quill travel. I'm constantly having to adjust the table height. Keep in mind that the difference in height of a spade or a fostner bit, and a small 3/32" bit is almost 3" and if you're drilling anything thicker than 1" you're gonna want more quill travel.

If its a well designed, well built drill press run-out shouldn't be an issue regardless of quill travel.

[Steve Griffin]

Funny how the drill press is so important to some, and an afterthought tool to others.

I've a got a larger bench top model, and don't think I've ever needed anything more. Actually once or twice I needed a really deep hole, and used the DP as far as I could and then a hand drill to finish it off. More "quill" travel wouldn't have helped anyway.

If there was one stationary tool in my shop I could live without, it's the drill press. So base your purchase on what you need for your style of woodworking. If you don't even know, buy a small one and upgrade if you find it's holding you back.

[ian maybury]

I guess it's always going to be a case of what jobs you run into.

Straight away a lot of these cheap drills have chucks and tapers that are not machined accurately, and that create a lot of run out.

The most common issue I seem to run into with short quill travel is the situation where having drilled a hole you need to enlarge it, or to drill a deep countersink/stepped bore - and find I can't get the second longer larger drill into the chuck without dropping the table first. This is a bit of a double whammy, because while it's not too hard to get the table centred again if you can drop your drill into an already drilled hole - you often can't do that if the second drill is larger.

A table that would hold its position while being raised and lowered would help a lot in this situation.

Another issue i run into from time to time is lateral reach when drilling a big part. I'd be very inclined to take a close look at one of those 'beam' type drilling machines where the head is mounted on a horizontal column too and can be moved. No doubt there's downsides to this.

Another limitation of cheap drills is vibration/inability to absorb it - they very quickly get into all sorts of chattering and the like, especially if drilling even small holes in metal.

The other useful feature would be electronically variable speed. Changing belts and washing your hands to get rid of the resulting black dirt which will spoil your workpiece wears thin pretty quickly.

All in all it points towards a scenario where the drill press needs to be treated much like any other floor machine in budget terms. There's all sorts of cheap and limited stuff you can buy very cheaply, but it seems very much you have to put out significant amounts of money if you want to cover the bases with an industrial quality machine....

ian

[Bill White]

My Craftsman KingSeely has about 4 1/2" max. Never been a real problem.
Bill

[Jerome Hanby]

My wife hated having to maneuver things around to drill pen blanks. so much that she green-lighted buying the new Delta 18" press with 6" travel the second I found a deal on one.

[Rod Sheridan]

I would like a drill press with a wide range of speeds via mechanical means.

I would also like it to have a large cast iron table, and have vey little runout.

As to quill travel, I have never needed more than a few inches of that, so it would be the third item on my list.

Unfortunately the first two eliminate many drill presses...............Rod.

[Ole Anderson]

For me, a having a quill lock is far more important than oodles of stroke. For example locking the quill to use a drum sander, or holding your drill bit just above the work, and then moving that board around with both hands to have the drill hit a mark. Another important feature not always present is a table lift crank which in many situations will more than make up for long quill travel. Having to manually lift the table is a pain.

I have a mini mill with a power feed table in addition to the drill press (a 25 year old Craftsman). I can't recall a single instance of using it for wood.

[John Coloccia]

And another feature often absent is a way to positively index the table to dead square. The Deltas have a stop in one axis (let's call it pitch), but this useless dinky little pin for roll. I have to whip out a square every single time.

Ole, you have it exactly right with the drum sander. A real quill lock securely locks the quill in place so you have no vibration and you won't slowly destroy the fit...and there should be a way of adjusting that anyway, but there isn't anymore. Ditto for running a Wagner SafT Planer, which is a big part of my building but sadly has recently been discontinued due to the guy retiring. Now all you can get is a junky import copy. The original, US made one was available for about $50. The cheap import is $35 and unimpressive. I wish someone would pick this product up and continue to make a quality version. Are you listening, Shiraz? LOL. Seriously, it's sad that a whole generation of guitar builders won't ever experience using the beautifully machined version of this great little tool.

[Andrew Joiner]

One way drill 6" with less than 6" of travel:

I hose clamped the raising rack ( the toothed strip) to the column. It keeps the table
in line as you raise or lower. My drill press has a slot in the bracket that rides the rack and it's wider than the rack by 1/32" for normal clearance. I made a 1/32" brass shim to eliminate side swing play of the table as it moves up or down.

[Jeff Duncan]

Like many things it comes down to what YOUR going to do with the machine. If 100 other guys say they never needed more than 3" of stroke, but then you find you need 4", the advice didn't help much. So I say you have to look at how you work and how your going to use your press.

I have 2 drill presses at the shop 1 with a 4" stroke and 1 with a 6" stroke. The length of bits doesn't affect the way I use my press, you just set it to whatever length you need. Where I find I have the most frustration is when Im doing something and need to change bits during the process, but can't move the workpiece/table b/c of whatever clamping situation you have. For example, you drill a through hole with a 5" straight shank bit, then follow it up with a 1" long chamfer bit....PITA. I have a variety of ways to work around it but I'd rather have both presses at a 6" travel.

So look at how you work and make your decision on that.

good luck,
JeffD

[Andrew Joiner]

I made a quill lock. I got a longer bolt than part # 59 screw in this link. Most drill presses have this adjustment set screw. I cross drilled the bolt and stuck in a rod ( like a C-clamp) to tighten it. I made a brass end for the bolt to ride in the well greased quill shaft groove.

http://cdn0.grizzly.com/partslists/g7945_pl.pdf (http://cdn0.grizzly.com/partslists/g7945_pl.pdf)

It's a real quill lock! You can also leave it just tight enough to take out some quill slop.

[ian maybury]

This is all starting to look like a very comprehensive wish list for an ideal drill press.

Pardon the thread grab Jared, but I guess the logical question (for you, and for all of us) that follows is IF you were prepared to step up to the mark in budget terms, what's out there to buy that cost effectively covers most of these bases?

ian

[Jared McMahon]

Too true, seems like there's a big gap between the high-end consumer models around $1000 and the entry-level industrial models at three or four times that much. In a thread from last year (I think), Shiraz said Grizzly was deep into the planning stages on a high-end drill press. I've seen a number of additions to their machinery line-up recently but nothing in that department.

My applications are probably closest to the good Mr. Coloccia's. I used to play guitar and now I've started building a couple bass guitars with a musician friend. Beyond that my interest is mainly period furniture, though I just can't seem to shake the idea of making my own tools. These requirements are nothing too wacky, but I still want to stick to the idea of buying the best tool one can reasonably afford and probably never having to worry about it again. I'm prepared to save up and bite the bullet on a serious machine, but I'm not prepared to jump the gap up to something like a Clausing. And it's this gap as well as a few luthier-related applications that keep bringing me back to mills and mill/drills. They seem to have the extra level of fit and finish that a lot of people find lacking on consumer-grade drill presses, as well as milling-related fringe benefits. For example, I could skip the planer widget and simply get a face mill.

[Doug Colombo]

My Jet (JDP-17DX) has 4 3/8 of travel and so far with the projects I have worked on, I have not found a need for any additional travel.

[Kent A Bathurst]

Jared......I did not switch DP models expressly to get the 6" quill travel. I primarily wanted a VS style. Now that I have the 6", wouldn't want to go back, but it's not a deal-killer - did not want to leave you with the wrong impression from my earlier post.

I ended up with a very good condition early-1980's PM 1150A-VS. If you are not looking for the VS feature, with some searching, a bit of time, and a bit of effort, you can get a PM 1150 or 1150A non-VS [non-VS means you change speeds by swapping the belts on the stacked pulleys] for a fairly reasonable price. The VS are more rare to come across, and cost more. The trick, of course, is to get one that's in good shape, especially in regards to runout.

Mine had new bearings, new belt, relatively new chuck - all in all very good condition. It also has what they call a production table, which means one great big honking slab of cast iron with a big ol' crank handle that makes is fairly easy to move up, and very easy to move down. Depth stop. Swing head. The OEM ph had been swapped out for a 1ph, but I got hte 3ph motor thrown in the deal. I got it from a guy at owwm-dot-org, so I had a very high comfort level making the deal sight-unseen. You couldn't get a new one with the features and overall heft that mine has for less than 3x what I paid - maybe even more. Owwm's a good place to go if you are interested in some old arn.

[Scott T Smith]

I had your basic Delta 14-1/2" DP. Forget the quill travel - 3" maybe?

Anyway - that did not routinely come up as a problem, but when it did, it was a real pain. One annoying detail that comes up frequently is that the shorter quill travel means you are adjusting the table height more often, to get within the travel range for that workpiece and bit length. But beyond that, when you need a deeper hole [and my 1/2" bradpoint is 6", plus I have some extra-length bits], you have to securely clamp the workpiece in place, drill as far as you can, raise the table - being very careful to stay in line - and drill again. Then, reverse those steps to get your bit out.

My current DP has 6" travel. Very nice. I can't give you the $ value tradeoff - doubt that number actually exists - but I'd pay more for the longer travel.


+1. Well stated Kent!

[Jared McMahon]

Frankly this boggles me, the fact that people often advise picking out not simply a particular make/model of drill press, but the actual individual machine. I don't know much of anything about manufacturing, but it's a drill press, not rocket science. What keeps quality from being higher, or at least more consistent? Maybe there's a mechanical engineer reading this who can give a concise technical answer on why this is such a tricky proposition. Maybe it's as simple as cost/benefit not paying off to tighten up QC.

I have two issues with buying old-school big iron machines, and neither is a deal-breaker. The first is that my shop is a one-car garage so space can be kind of tight. The second is the fact that once I'm ready to buy, there's no guarantee that a good one will be available. But since this is my hobby and not my livelihood, I could afford to wait for one to come around.

[Will Rowland]

I have to agree with the others that until I had a DP with 6" of quill travel, and a quill lock, I didn't know what I was missing. The extra travel and quill lock just make it much easier to line things up accurately.

Somehow I have ended up with a Rockwell 15-655 VS (with production table) as well as a Powermatic 1150A VS, both of which have 6" of quill travel. The Rockwell is 1 ph and the Powermatic is 3ph, running off a VFD.

I was in the market for a drill press again (not likely to happen!), I would try to find on Craigslist/eBay a vintage non-VS Rockwell or Powermatic with a 3 ph motor and then slap on a VFD to provide variable speed control. The VS mechanisms are nice to have, but they can cause a few problems (and additional vibration), and the VS belts are quite pricey and can be difficult to find now. As long as the quill doesn't have slop or excessive run-out, you'll be getting a far better machine than anything on the market today.

[Van Huskey]

Maybe it's as simple as cost/benefit not paying off to tighten up QC.



I think you answered your own question. Runout is extremely variable in the Asian DPs that get sold to hobby woodworkers, I haven't found a single model under $1k that doen't vary widely from press to press.

[ian maybury]

:) Here's a his and hers model for Jerome:

http://classified.directindustry.com/used-industrial-machine-equipment/powermatic-1150a-2302.html

[Drew Eckhardt]

The other useful feature would be electronically variable speed. Changing belts and washing your hands to get rid of the resulting black dirt which will spoil your workpiece wears thin pretty quickly.


Link belts are clean and do wonders absorbing the vibration from cheap motors (my first Delta motor was so bad wood walked off the table, and the warranty replacement was just a hair better) and perhaps badly manufactured sheaves.

[Van Huskey]

:) Here's a his and hers model for Jerome:

http://classified.directindustry.com/used-industrial-machine-equipment/powermatic-1150a-2302.html

That may be the cleanest gang of PM 1150 DPs I have seen in a LONG time. The multi gang drilling setups usually are really abused. The Powermatic 1150 and 1200 are two of THE presses to own. I have been looking for a excellent PM1200VS for a while now. Unfortunately, everyone I have seen for sale the owner really knows what they have and holds it VERY dear.

[Rich Engelhardt]

If you don't even know, buy a small one and upgrade if you find it's holding you back.
+1.

I bought a POS benchtop GMC from Lowes about 6 years ago. Since I was a "newbie", I didn't know how inadequate it was.
The only real gripe I have about it is that it's so difficult to change speeds, I have to keep it set on the middle speed.
I honestly can't even tell you how much quill travel it has, 3", 3.5",4" or whatever, because that aspect is such a non issue for the things I use it for.

In retropect, my only mistake was not looking at ease of speed changes & being lured by "the more speeds the better", the DP has to be.
To get those "more speeds", a middle set of pullyes is added. It's that middle set that maks the thing such a bear to change speeds.

One of these days I may get around to replacing it, but, in the meantime it's better than not having a drill press at all.
I use my drill press quite a bit and consider it an essential.

[Kent A Bathurst]

I have two issues with buying old-school big iron machines, and neither is a deal-breaker. The first is that my shop is a one-car garage so space can be kind of tight.

FWIW - My PM1150A fits in the same space formerly occupied by its predecessor - the generic Delta 14-1/2". The production table is certainly bigger than the tilt table that was on the Delta - and bigger than the tilt table that is the other style available on the PM1150 - but that is a moot point, because I took my shop-made table off the Delta and put it on the PM, and it overhangs the production table by 10" each side and 4" in front.

To be honest - the PM fits even better, solely due to the easy of unlocking and rotating the table, cranking the table height, and the ease of unlocking and rotating the swing head. Getting to the Delta's table crank was a major pain with my large table on it......the previous owner of the PM had put a 12" section of pipe on the crank arm, to extend it out from under the OEM table.....clever fellow.

The thing to be most concerned with: the PM weighs a LOT more than the Delta. I got mine in far north WVa, and had to get it into a BMW 5x. The head went in the trunk [ everything else into the flight deck], and had to come out of the trunk in Atlanta - the issue, of course, is how much grovelling you have to do with your friends and neighbors to help. That head is one big chunk of cast iron, which is one of its attractions, of course.

Double pulley bolted to the joists, double pulley strapped on the head, come-along strapped to a column 20 feet away. Jack. Brace. Jack. Brace. Rinse. Repeat. Set the DP post under the head, and let it down slowly. The living room stayed right where it was, so everything was OK. Pulley still bolted to the joists.........might need it some day.

[Kent A Bathurst]

That may be the cleanest gang of PM 1150 DPs I have seen in a LONG time.

Now we're talking........get that setup with two VFD's.............set belt on one for a moderate low speed and on the other for a moderate high speed. Hmmmmm..........nahhhh - not enough room, darnit.

Or - buy the pair, and sell off one and the table. A new floor post is a simple thing to come by..............

[Jerome Hanby]

Wow! 6" travel too <g>

:) Here's a his and hers model for Jerome:

http://classified.directindustry.com/used-industrial-machine-equipment/powermatic-1150a-2302.html

[Jim German]

Maybe it's as simple as cost/benefit not paying off to tighten up QC.

Bingo.

Too many people buy purely based on price or specs, there are a few companies (Apple, Festool) that have been able to carve out a business niche by offering higher qualitly products, but they costs significantly more, and those companies are continually hounded by people saying to just get another brand that is cheaper because since it has the same specs its 'just as good'.

[Rod Sheridan]

Bingo.

Too many people buy purely based on price or specs, there are a few companies (Apple, Festool) that have been able to carve out a business niche by offering higher qualitly products, but they costs significantly more, and those companies are continually hounded by people saying to just get another brand that is cheaper because since it has the same specs its 'just as good'.

How true........................Rod.

[Jared McMahon]

Just to give this dead horse one last soft kick, I've been surfing info about vintage machinery and I think I've fallen in love:

220497

Pretty much all the drill presses I've ever seen have been consumer-grade and oriented towards woodworking. My recent surfing has been a real revelation, and as far as I'm concerned this Cincinnati-Bickford is the prettiest filly in the pasture.

[CPeter James]

If you are looking for a drill press with all those features and more, how about one of these?
220597
It has 6" of spindle travel, 16 speeds from 175 rpm to 8200 rpm (actually indefinite speed selection with the VFD), heavy cast iron construction (about 900 pounds), up to 32" from the column to the spindle, spindle lock and also quill wear adjustment, rotates 360º, and tilts 45º left and right. Cost new is $11,400, but they show up on E*** and CL quite frequently for well under $1,000. This is my second one that I have picked up in three years. There are a couple on E*** right now.

CPeter
220598
220599