warped doors!

[Larry Browning]

Is there a trick to making cabinet doors be flat? I have made a few of these doors, some are flat but it seems to me that most come out a littlle warped. And the other day I was visiting my son's business where I had made a cabinet for one of the partners there and I noticed that both of the doors I had made we warped pretty badly. One of the doors was touching the face frame at the bottom, yet was almost 1/2 inch from touching at the top. I am sure that it wasn't this way when I delivered it to him. What can I do to prevent them from warping when I build them and also after they are attached to the cabinet?

Thanks,

[David Wilson]

Larry
The only thing that comes to mind is to be shure the wood you are using is dry and seal the doors inside as well as out.

[Don Carkhuff]

Quater sawn stock for the frame will warp less than flat/plain sawn.

[Dennis Peacock]

Larry,

When you figure it out....let me know!!!!! There are cabinet doors in my kitchen that have doors that are warped fairly badly. I'd like to learn how to make doors that do not warp. ;)

[Michael Gabbay]

Larry -

When I make doors I always make sure the stock for the frame and panels are acclimated for at least a week or two in the shop. Also, I mill in stages over a few days and I make sure I take material off of all sides. Finally, if I am painting the doors I never use softwood for the frames. I've had too many doors move on me after the painting and installation. It's cheaper in the long run to use maple or other hardwood to prevent movement.

Mike

[Mike Vermeil]

Two of my rules for flat doors:

1) Always save the flatest stock for the doors.
2) Make sure that the surface you're working on when assembling & clamping the doors is absoultely flat - you'd be shocked how much twist you can put into an otherwise properly made door by gluing it up on a twisted work table. I used to lay down cardboard over my table to keep it clean, but I've stopped that all together because of problems with twist.

OK, here's one more:
1) On the rails, make sure that the shoulder is the same distance back from the end of the tennon on BOTH sides of the rail. If one is slightly farther back from the end of the tenon, that can induce twist into the door when clamping.

[Bob Smalser]

In addition to seasoning...

...are you evaluating your stock for grain runout? Qsawn wood is more stable on its face, but that's no guarantee it won't warp if the board was milled crossgrain to the tree....which many are in the tapered first log (the one with the most figure you picked for your cabinet).

You don't want any runout....especially in stiles. In flatsawn wood the edge grain needs to be straight as a new arrow and evenly-spaced. In qsawn wood it's harder to evaluate the edge, but it's doable.

The first selection from any batch of rough stock are the stiles based on grain runout and flatness...then the rails....panel selection comes last.

Flattening a twisted rough board and then using it in a stile or long rail is a crap shoot not in your favor.

Also make sure you are planing down both sides of your stock evenly in case there is a moisture gradient that didn't season out entirely....even if that means leaving in a blemish you'd like to plane out. Hide the blemish with finish.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=9175&highlight=ring+count

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=7528&highlight=drawknife

[Keith July]

Hello Larry,
Are these frame and panel doors?
If so...I have a idea or two. When selecting the wood for your doors, look for the straightest grain possible.
Was the wood kiln dried or air dried? I have built doors from both and had good results. When I build doors I make sure that all of the wood is at the same moisture content. This will help because the door parts will all move the same amount(shrink or expand).
The center panel should be several narrow boards glued together. This helps to minimize movement. A solid panel will move more than a glued up panel and cause your door to warp.
I hope this helps.

[Larry Browning]

Two of my rules for flat doors:

1) Always save the flatest stock for the doors.
2) Make sure that the surface you're working on when assembling & clamping the doors is absoultely flat - you'd be shocked how much twist you can put into an otherwise properly made door by gluing it up on a twisted work table. I used to lay down cardboard over my table to keep it clean, but I've stopped that all together because of problems with twist.

OK, here's one more:
1) On the rails, make sure that the shoulder is the same distance back from the end of the tennon on BOTH sides of the rail. If one is slightly farther back from the end of the tenon, that can induce twist into the door when clamping.
Mike,
1) When I was having problems with drawer sides the advise was "save the flatest stock for the drawers". I guess the advise here is always use flat stock for everything :)
2) I have been setting my Bessys on the bench and then assembling the door on the bars and clamping that. Is there a better way?

extra 1) I really don't understand what you are saying here. I always get confused about which is the stile and which is the rail.

[Mark Singer]

On solid doors, reverse the grain on glue -ups. Both sides should be sealed. Don't flatten the boards until the moisture content is close to tha ambient moisture in the room. For frame doors with glass or wood panels, stile material must be chosen with care and laid up om a flat surface. It should be checked with strings or winding sticks to verify the flatness. I have really not had too much of a problem with warping. Another trick is the Euro hinges will allow a lot of adjustments to remove the effect of warping. Some woods are difficult and should be avoided. Sheet goods is another solution. A friend of mine made a desk from Gongalo Alves and it went crazy!

[Alan Turner]

("2) I have been setting my Bessys on the bench and then assembling the door on the bars and clamping that. Is there a better way?")

Larry, I think there is a bit of a better way for the glue ups. On the bench, which needs to be flat, I place two boards of the width of the glue up, or longer by a bit. The height of the boards off the bench needs to be the height of the Bessey bar, plus 1/4" or so. cover the tops of the boards with packing tape so you don't have any glue sticking problems.
Then, lay the stock, or door, to be glued on the boards, and slide your Besseys under the stock and then twist to upright. What this avoids is the tendancy of the Bessey bar to bend a bit under pressure. It still bends, but the deflection is not taking your stock out of plane.
My glue up boards live in the joists over my bench and are used often. They are also my winding sticks. Mine are of mahogany for stability, but anyuthing will work as long as it stays straight and true.

[Byron Trantham]

"Drying" is essential. I have made dozen of raised panel and glass panel doors. None have warped except one. :mad: I bring in the rough cut lumber into my shop and let it sit for at least two weeks. After I size the boards, face joint them and thickness plane them I TRY to let them sit again. I have had good luck. The one that did warp was about 1/4"-3/8" off at the top. Fortunately the client wanted those spring clips to hold them closed. I had provided self closing hinges. The "requirement" for the spring clips saved me making a new door. :rolleyes: