If you had to choose: Jet 14" DXPRO or Powermatic 14" PWBS?

[Jim Laumann]

Fellow 'Creekers

I've got the ok from wifelet to get a saw - purchase will likely be within the coming month or so....

I thought I'd nailed the selection down to the Jet, but while on a road trip this weekend - to look at saws (and other shop goodies), it was suggested to me by a clerk at one of the retailers to look at the Powermatic. The reason being that by the time I get the Jet fully equipped, I would be approaching the price of the Powermatic.

The thing I like about the Jet is the built in 12" resaw capability - no riser block required. It's two speed, and comes w/ ball bearing blade guides (no blocks, but I don't know whose bearings they are - ie Carter). Also has the blade tension lever. Motor is 1.25hp. This saw is about 35# heavier than the Powermatic.

Bad thing - no rip fence (Kreg for $107), miter guage (Jet for $54.95).

A mobile base is $74.95 (Jet). Blades are $27.95-38.00. Call it a rough total of $1235 w/ the stock blade.



The Powermatic is $1199, a riser block is required (but is included as part of the current sales promotion). Comes w/ a rip fence and miter guage. Also has a work light and dust blower. The clerk at the store indicated that the blade guide bearings are Carter. I was told this is a single speed saw, although I can't find this stated in the literature I have. Motor is 1.5 hp.

Two options for the mobile base (Powermatic's at $200 +/-, due to the design of the base cabinet of the saw), or go w/ a generic base and put a sheet of 3/4" ply down first - so $74.95. W/ just the stock blade and generic mobile base, the unit comes to $1273 - so its close to a wash.

An issue - somewhat minor, is that if I do the Powermatic, once I mount the riser, it is likely to stay on and never come off - so I'd need to buy the equivalent "riser" blade to the one that comes stock, and have a stock blade which never get's used.



I need to get this "as right" as possible the first time. Comments (pro-con) from owners of either machine are welcome.

Many thanks

Jim

[Jake Elkins]

I've got the PM with riser block, and have had it since 2009 or so. I got it on sale for a few hundred less than your price. The saw took some time to get everything aligned a co-planar. Once there, the saw has worked well, with just a few gripes. The miter gauge and rip fence are garbage. The miter gauge broke, and I am just waiting for the right sale to come along to replace the rip fence.

The saw is one of my most used in the shop. It is my go-to tool for most rips, especially for rough lumber. I've processed a few logs through this, and the motor was surprisingly robust enough to resaw logs into lumber. My favorite blade for rips and resaws is a 3/4" timberwolf blade. The saw can tension this, but I've had problems with clearance for the 3/4" blade. I had to modify the blade guard, etc. to get it to work. Otherwise, its been a fine saw. It easily passes the nickle test, and dust collection is really nice. However, had I known how much I'd use a bandsaw, I would have saved up to get either a larger Grizzly, or really saved up to get an Italian BS. But if (er, when) I upgrade, I will most likely keep this one.

[Bruce Page]

A friend of mine has the Powermatic and loves it.
A few points to consider:
The Powermatic will have better resale value if you ever decide to upgrade.
The unused OEM blade is most likely not very good anyway and shouldn’t enter into the decision.
I believe that PM still uses re-branded HTC mobile bases. I have one under my jointer and had one under my old planer – I hated both of them and suggest you look for a Delta base that will fit the PM.

[Cary Falk]

I know it is not on your list, but if I was spending that kind of money, I would buy a Grizzly G0513x2f steel frame 17" with a 2hp motor.
cary

[David Weaver]

Ditto that. At that price range, I'd be getting a bigger saw, too.

I was in the same place about 3 years ago and went with the 18 inch X-series jet, back then prices were lower (it cost me $1050). I am glad I did. I suppose I'd spend a few hundred more for the same thing now if I had to choose between it and an $1100 14-inch bandsaw.

[Brian Tymchak]

Was kind of thinking along the same lines but different... The Rikon Deluxe 14" seems to have everything in the OPs requirements list except for a mobile base and miter gauge. And is "only" $949 at Woodcraft. And if the Woodcraft store doesn't have it in stock, you should be able to order it through that store with no delivery charges and pick it up there. At least I was able to when I bought mine a few years ago.

Man, tool prices sure have taken a big jump in the last several months. This bandsaw is $200 more now than what I paid for it.

[Jeff Monson]

Jim I own the powermatic with the riser block installed. Its a nice saw, a larger bandsaw is on my "next tool purcase list". I'd like to get $700.00 for my powermatic as its only 1.5 years old. I'd take a long look at Cary's advice on a Grizzly 17" for the same money. The throat on the 14" bandsaw's just does not work for me. IMO you will outgrow a 14" and be kicking yourself for not getting more capacity.

[Van Huskey]

Between the two I would pick the PM, but one thing the guides are NOT Carter guides they are very similar to them and work better than the stock guides on any other currently available 14" cast Delta clone but they aren't Carters. The only actual Carter bit on the PM is the quick release which is very nice. The PM is outfitted better than any available cast 14" saw currently BUT the last price increase from $999 makes it a dubious purchase when it is not on sale, if it were during one of the WMH 15% off sales it would be more appealing.

The Rikon is also a good buy and I prefer the steel spine but the guides and fence are its weakness, Carter guides can be added but then you are over the PM price and the fence is still weak, it in the past was a much better buy also, in the last few years it went on sale for 699 while the PM went on sale for ~850.

Bottom line at $1200 I am getting the Grizzly 513X2 or for $100 more (both prices shipped) I am getting the 513X2F with the foot brake. The quick release and guides are quite as nice but both are servicable but it is a 17" saw and has more power and capacity compared to the PM. The only thing that may be an issue is it does require 220v.

[Van Huskey]

Jim I own the powermatic with the riser block installed. Its a nice saw, a larger bandsaw is on my "next tool purcase list". I'd like to get $700.00 for my powermatic as its only 1.5 years old. I'd take a long look at Cary's advice on a Grizzly 17" for the same money. The throat on the 14" bandsaw's just does not work for me. IMO you will outgrow a 14" and be kicking yourself for not getting more capacity.

NEVER sale a bandsaw until you have at least 4 left after the sale and certainly never sale one if you only have 2!!! :D

[Joseph Tarantino]

Was kind of thinking along the same lines but different... The Rikon Deluxe 14" seems to have everything in the OPs requirements list except for a mobile base and miter gauge. And is "only" $949 at Woodcraft. And if the Woodcraft store doesn't have it in stock, you should be able to order it through that store with no delivery charges and pick it up there. At least I was able to when I bought mine a few years ago.

this is the best advice in this thread. WMH tool group products are premium priced tools that are never rated as top tools in comaprative tool tests of the major, popular types of power tools (table saws - benchtop, contractor, hybrid or cabinet, band saws, bench top planers and 6" jointers). rikon receives ovewhelmingly positive comments regarding their technical and customer service and, as the owner of a preowned 18" jet band saw, i would humbly advise reconsidering a jet ot powermatic purchase. IMHO, those brands are only trading on their past reputations and are mere shadows of their former selves appealing primarily to tool snobs.

go with the rikon. if you can wait, woodcraft reduces them ~$200 twice a year. so at $750, a better saw than the jet or powermatic is available at a much better price, resulting in a better value and more intelligent tool purchase.

[Van Huskey]

this is the best advice in this thread. WMH tool group products are premium priced tools that are never rated as top tools in comaprative tool tests of the major, popular types of power tools (table saws - benchtop, contractor, hybrid or cabinet, band saws, bench top planers and 6" jointers). rikon receives ovewhelmingly positive comments regarding their technical and customer service and, as the owner of a preowned 18" jet band saw, i would humbly advise reconsidering a jet ot powermatic purchase. IMHO, those brands are only trading on their past reputations and are mere shadows of their former selves appealing primarily to tool snobs.

go with the rikon. if you can wait, woodcraft reduces them ~$200 twice a year. so at $750, a better saw than the jet or powermatic is available at a much better price, resulting in a better value and more intelligent tool purchase.

Never is a dangerous term and in this case incorrect. I know you have a chip on your shoulder as a result of your experience with your $40 Craig's List 18" Jet bandsaw but I am curious, have you ever owned or used a PM machine?

I do agree that the Rikon can be a better saw if the guide issue is addressed and maybe the fence as well, due to its steel spine.

[Bruce Wrenn]

Used is the way to go for a 14" bandsaw, IMHO. If I were buying a saw as you suggest, I would hit CL for an American made Delta 14". Expect to pay $200 - $400, mainly depending upon which type base (open or closed.) Saws with riser blocks don't appear as regularly as ones without. From Ittura Design, get a spinner tension knob, or make your own. Last year, Wood had a "Top Tip" on adding DC to a 14" BS, which required no cutting of the saw. Proud owner of three Delta 14" BS.

[Paul McGaha]

[QUOTE=Joseph Tarantino;1852888]this is the best advice in this thread. WMH tool group products are premium priced tools that are never rated as top tools in comaprative tool tests of the major, popular types of power tools (table saws - benchtop, contractor, hybrid or cabinet, band saws, bench top planers and 6" jointers). rikon receives ovewhelmingly positive comments regarding their technical and customer service and, as the owner of a preowned 18" jet band saw, i would humbly advise reconsidering a jet ot powermatic purchase. IMHO, those brands are only trading on their past reputations and are mere shadows of their former selves appealing primarily to tool snobs.

Not true. i bought a Powermatic 719 Hollow Chisel Mortiser based on the reviews of a tool test performed by American Woodworker magazine. Had it several years now and it has been a very positive experience to own it. This was actually my first Powermatic tool, Others followed, Happy with all of them.

I really have no idea what your problem is with Powermatic. I read posts all the time of people that are perfectly satisfied with their lathe, or shaper, or table saw, or jointer, or planer or whatever else. To some people, Powermatic seem to be their preferred brand and favorite tools.

Self moderation is a good thing. I think people should not comment on the performance of a particular tool unless they have at least used it.

PHM

[Brett Robson]

I was trying to decide between those two saws last month. I ended up with a Steel City Granite Deluxe saw instead. It has all the extras included - roller base, 12" resaw, 1 1/2 hp, quick detensioner, lamp, fence and roller guides. The granite lower wheel makes it resaw well without noticeably slowing down.

Mine's been great sofar although the factory tires were junk and totally out of round, which caused a ton of vibration. I replaced them and added a couple little stick-on weights to balance the wheels.

Right now they're $800.

http://www.steelcitytoolworks.com/pdf/USA2011_lowres.pdf

[Stephen Cherry]

I would buy used. I've seen Italian saws for cheaper than this. One thing to remember with bandsaws is that size matters. You want a pretty robust machine to tension the blade adequately. Especially if you want to resaw.

And the best thing about buying used is:
1) You'll likely get a bunch of free blades
2) if you don't like it, you'll be able to change your mind without loosing your shirt.

Also, if you want to resaw, you may want to consider at least a 20 inch saw, that way the blades take less fatigue going around a smaller wheel.

If there is one tool to splurge on, it's the bandsaw. A nice one is a pleasure to use, while a smaller one trying to do a large saws job is no fun. I'm all for a 14 inch saw, I would like to have one, but it would be a 200-400 dollar delta.

[Joe Angrisani]

I would buy used. I've seen Italian saws for cheaper than this......
......I'm all for a 14 inch saw, I would like to have one, but it would be a 200-400 dollar delta.

I'm pretty much with Stephen on this, Jim.

If you're after a 14" saw, buy an older used saw. I'd add: If you're after a $1200 bandsaw, look at the 17" Grizzly offerings.

[Van Huskey]

I don't know where the OP is from but there is a Minimax MM16 in the deals forum in Oregon for $1500. That is a LOT more saw than anything discussed here and certainly worth the extra couple of hundred bucks. The difference between the MM and even the Grizzly 513 series is night and day, much less comparing it to the cast clones or Rikon.

[Stephen Cherry]

I like this one:
http://www.irsauctions.com/popups/bidders_paddle.asp?lot=223861&auction=JLRODUXN4TJCTP7MB7TOSALN9ZEQQM&id=15562

[Van Huskey]

I like this one:
http://www.irsauctions.com/popups/bidders_paddle.asp?lot=223861&auction=JLRODUXN4TJCTP7MB7TOSALN9ZEQQM&id=15562

I like that Agazzani also, but their math is off, that is a 24" saw not a 22" a 22" would be a 550 not 600. As with most auctions they usually jump near the end and you will likely have to hire a site approved rigger to take delivery unless you have the million dollar insurance policy IRS usually require for non-hand loadable items. Could still be a bargain though. The Rapid series still isn't built as heavy as the Minimax MM series though.

[Stephen Cherry]

I like that Agazzani also, but their math is off, that is a 24" saw not a 22" a 22" would be a 550 not 600. As with most auctions they usually jump near the end and you will likely have to hire a site approved rigger to take delivery unless you have the million dollar insurance policy IRS usually require for non-hand loadable items. Could still be a bargain though. The Rapid series still isn't built as heavy as the Minimax MM series though.

That's about the same saw that I have. It just cuts whatever you put in front of the blade. I have never had to worry about tracking, drift, anything. Plus, 24 is a comfortable size.

I talked to IRS auctions a while back, and it seems that a pallet jack is hand carried. You don't need the big insurance unless you need powered moving equipment. It's been a while though, and if I were going to bid I would confirm this.

[David Kumm]

If you have the ability to haul used is the way to go. My newest saw, an ACM Laguna LT 18 vintage late 90s is sitting in storage, for sale for $1200 while the saws I use are from 1936,1938, and 1953. Dave

[Van Huskey]

That's about the same saw that I have. It just cuts whatever you put in front of the blade. I have never had to worry about tracking, drift, anything. Plus, 24 is a comfortable size.

I talked to IRS auctions a while back, and it seems that a pallet jack is hand carried. You don't need the big insurance unless you need powered moving equipment. It's been a while though, and if I were going to bid I would confirm this.

That is interesting about the hand carry issue, may open up some items I didn't bother with before!

For a long time I touted the B-24 as the "best buy" in Italian saws, when it was just north of 3K (haven't checked it lately). It is a "traditional" bandsaw with a resaw in the 16-17" range and though not the huge resaw heights we are seeing with some of the mid-sized saws today it is good for most people. Compare that to a MM20 that was ~$700 more at the time (3 more inches of resaw but 4 fewer inches of throat) it just fits a really sweet spot for the hobby or light commercial guy that wants a serious saw.

[David Kumm]

I think Aggi has beefed up their saws lately. They used to be refined but a little lighter than the Centauros but I think they are heavier now. Don't know the pricing but Euro stuff has really gone up in the last years. 24" or so is a great size although i think the Oliver 217 is the best small footprint large saw- but I'm biased. Dave

[Stephen Cherry]

If you have the ability to haul used is the way to go. My newest saw, an ACM Laguna LT 18 vintage late 90s is sitting in storage, for sale for $1200 while the saws I use are from 1936,1938, and 1953. Dave

That would make a fine deal, especially if there are some blades thrown in.

[Van Huskey]

I think Aggi has beefed up their saws lately. They used to be refined but a little lighter than the Centauros but I think they are heavier now. Don't know the pricing but Euro stuff has really gone up in the last years. 24" or so is a great size although i think the Oliver 217 is the best small footprint large saw- but I'm biased. Dave


Agazzani didn't change the traditional saws but added the B18-18 and B20-20 which are beefed up to accomodate the extra resaw height, they still are built a little lighter than the Centauro built saws but more in reality pretty much a draw.

The Oliver 217 is a GREAT saw, though I dunno if I consider it a small footprint saw... 30" saws pretty much mean big footprint to most people here! I do know what you mean though. Not having owned an Oliver leads me to disagree since the best 30" BS I have owned (though not any more) was a Yates Y30, again I am biased also.

[David Kumm]

Agazzani didn't change the traditional saws but added the B18-18 and B20-20 which are beefed up to accomodate the extra resaw height, they still are built a little lighter than the Centauro built saws but more in reality pretty much a draw.

The Oliver 217 is a GREAT saw, though I dunno if I consider it a small footprint saw... 30" saws pretty much mean big footprint to most people here! I do know what you mean though. Not having owned an Oliver leads me to disagree since the best 30" BS I have owned (though not any more) was a Yates Y30, again I am biased also.

No disagreement that the Yates is top of the food chain. I've got a Y20 snowflake that is scary quiet. The Y30 footprint is the same as the Oliver 36" in terms of floorspace. The 217 is 54 or 56" from C frame to end of table so about 8-12" less than either Tanny or Yates. Dave

[Van Huskey]

No disagreement that the Yates is top of the food chain. I've got a Y20 snowflake that is scary quiet. The Y30 footprint is the same as the Oliver 36" in terms of floorspace. The 217 is 54 or 56" from C frame to end of table so about 8-12" less than either Tanny or Yates. Dave


1. I didn't know the 217 was that much smaller if any!

2. The Y20 Snowflake is the only big iron BS I would make enough room for in my new shop but that would mean getting rid of my MM20 which would make me sad and might not even happen.


Sorry to the OP for the long thread jack!

[David Kumm]

1. I didn't know the 217 was that much smaller if any!

2. The Y20 Snowflake is the only big iron BS I would make enough room for in my new shop but that would mean getting rid of my MM20 which would make me sad and might not even happen.


Sorry to the OP for the long thread jack!

Maybe we talked him into a Snowflake.

[Van Huskey]

Maybe we talked him into a Snowflake.

Or if not a Y-20 maybe a J-120, I really like the J-120 (looks COOL) and would love to find one to replace my Delta 28-350.

[David Kumm]

Or if not a Y-20 maybe a J-120, I really like the J-120 (looks COOL) and would love to find one to replace my Delta 28-350.

Agreed. We need to start a cool old bandsaw thread.

[Eric DeSilva]

If the OP is in the DC/NoVA area, I'll sell you a PM 14" for a lot less than new, plus a bunch of blades. I keep it around with a thin blade for curvy things, but if the goal is resawing, in all honesty I don't think I'd recommend the PM. Unless you are resawing really soft woods.

I ended up replacing--or is that "supplementing," since I still have that mustard thing in the basement--my PM with a Laguna 14SUV. There is no comparison in terms of resaw capability. Price new is a little higher, but not that much. I tried wide blades, thin blades, different tensions, tuned from start to finish multiple times, carbide, drift fences, pretty much everything you could think of. In contrast, the Laguna resawed like a champ right out of the box.

[Joseph Tarantino]

Never is a dangerous term and in this case incorrect. I know you have a chip on your shoulder as a result of your experience with your $40 Craig's List 18" Jet bandsaw but I am curious, have you ever owned or used a PM machine?

I do agree that the Rikon can be a better saw if the guide issue is addressed and maybe the fence as well, due to its steel spine.

my comments are based on my personnal experience with one of jet's products and the company that backs it up. and i stand by my statement about WMH tool group products never being judged top tools in comparative tool tests of the 7 tool categories mentioned in my previous post in wood or pop. wwing. and because their new products are so pricey, they are never awarded top value honors. if there is a comaprative test of any of the 7 tool categories mentioned above by either of the publications noted within the last 6 years where a jet or powermatic tool has won top tool honors, i would be interested in reading it.

as far as actually using a product, that would entail an expensive mistake i have no intention of making. looking at ~6 years worth of comparative tool tests by respected publications like wood and pop. wwing provides an overwhelming impression that jet and powermatic are primarily trading on their past reputations, and that the current products, given their prices, are poor values.

[Paul McGaha]

my comments are based on my personnal experience with one of jet's products and the company that backs it up. and i stand by my statement about WMH tool group products never being judged top tools in comparative tool tests of the 7 tool categories mentioned in my previous post in wood or pop. wwing. and because their new products are so pricey, they are never awarded top value honors. if there is a comaprative test of any of the 7 tool categories mentioned above by either of the publications noted within the last 6 years where a jet or powermatic tool has won top tool honors, i would be interested in reading it.

as far as actually using a product, that would entail an expensive mistake i have no intention of making. looking at ~6 years worth of comparative tool tests by respected publications like wood and pop. wwing provides an overwhelming impression that jet and powermatic are primarily trading on their past reputations, and that the current products, given their prices, are poor values.

Joseph T,

So then the answer to Van's question is no?

You've never used a Powermatic tool before?

With all the critisizing you do of Powermatic tools you've never actually used one?

PHM

[Jeff Monson]

my comments are based on my personnal experience with one of jet's products and the company that backs it up. and i stand by my statement about WMH tool group products never being judged top tools in comparative tool tests of the 7 tool categories mentioned in my previous post in wood or pop. wwing. and because their new products are so pricey, they are never awarded top value honors. if there is a comaprative test of any of the 7 tool categories mentioned above by either of the publications noted within the last 6 years where a jet or powermatic tool has won top tool honors, i would be interested in reading it.

as far as actually using a product, that would entail an expensive mistake i have no intention of making. looking at ~6 years worth of comparative tool tests by respected publications like wood and pop. wwing provides an overwhelming impression that jet and powermatic are primarily trading on their past reputations, and that the current products, given their prices, are poor values.

I'm going to have to disagree here, I have owned several Powermatic machines (air cleaner, dust collector, bandsaw, tablesaw, shaper) to which all served me very well. IMHO they are very well built machines. I read alot of WW publications, I dont seem to recall too many stating Powermatic is a "poor value".

[Joseph Tarantino]

I'm going to have to disagree here, I have owned several Powermatic machines (air cleaner, dust collector, bandsaw, tablesaw, shaper) to which all served me very well. IMHO they are very well built machines. I read alot of WW publications, I dont seem to recall too many stating Powermatic is a "poor value".

the poor value is my judgement call. what else would you call a tool priced at, say, $3300, or any appliance for that matter, that performs the same function as another tool or appliance that costs half as much. and if powermatics were so superior, wouldn't the comparative tool tests performed by publications that are in the business of using power tools for projects, support such a position? even this thread has a post from a powermatic BS owner offerring it for sale because he was dissatisfied with it. hopefully, the OP realizes now that the rikon is a better tool, a better value and is supported by a more responsive and technically proficient company.

[Charles Robertson]

Jim, my dogs bigger than your dog.
There is some good advice above. I'd like to join three of the guys, Bruce Wrenn, Stephen Cherry, Joe Angrisani. Buy used, North American. Delta, Powermatic,General-(Canada). Not cutting down the Italian saws by any means. Have heard nothing but good about them. Don't let 3-phase stop you either. A driver to single phase is less than $130. Look for $500 or less for highrise American made 14". If you can find a oriental version (Delta, Powermatic, General) or a Ricon, it will probably serve your needs. I have older Delta and Powermatic-(green) tools. 20 by count. 1-18" Jet bandsaw, which has served me well but would leave my shop should a Mini-max get too close. Whould not trade any of my old beat-up Delta and Powermatic tools for the newer oriental versions. Have not seen the new Delta table saw up close-will reserve judgement there. If I have offended anyone by this interjection, I do so humbly apoligise.
Yeah, right.

[Joseph Tarantino]

If the OP is in the DC/NoVA area, I'll sell you a PM 14" for a lot less than new, plus a bunch of blades. I keep it around with a thin blade for curvy things, but if the goal is resawing, in all honesty I don't think I'd recommend the PM. Unless you are resawing really soft woods.

I ended up replacing--or is that "supplementing," since I still have that mustard thing in the basement--my PM with a Laguna 14SUV. There is no comparison in terms of resaw capability. Price new is a little higher, but not that much. I tried wide blades, thin blades, different tensions, tuned from start to finish multiple times, carbide, drift fences, pretty much everything you could think of. In contrast, the Laguna resawed like a champ right out of the box.

another example of the superiority of a WMH tool group product. that's the kind of tool i want to buy. spend more on it than a comparable tool and then spend even more money trying to get it to perform like its supposed to.

BTW, not meaning to hijack this thread, did jim ever disclose his BS purchase decision?

[Jim Laumann]

......BTW, not meaning to hijack this thread, did jim ever disclose his BS purchase decision?

Joseph, others.....

No - not made a decision yet. I've started looking at the Grizzly 17" saws, and the Rikons - at this point - I just don't know. Thrashing I guess.

For the record - I've been watching CL for several months - most BS listed in my area are Craftsman, the few 14" Delta/Jet/other brand saws which do show up (few and far between) are $ky high, hence my thinking to buy new - may as well get a warranty, etc.

Am pondering the Grizzly G0513X2 & G0513X2F. I've got a Woodcraft about 100 miles away - so the Rikon's are a possibility as well...

My intended use for a BS is some of everything - general sawing (curves), roughing out blanks for turning, and some resaw for a project the wife wants.

Thanks to all who responded so far...

Jim

[Joseph Tarantino]

FWIW, don't be too quuick to turn your nose up at some of the c-man saws. they offerred a steel frame model (22401) that was a dead ringer for the rikon 10-320, but with CI wheels, a light, 8" resaw and a fence. the 10-320 is a stripped down version of rikon's 10-325. i think sears was clearancing them for <$200. could represent a good value on a functional band saw.

[Kent A Bathurst]

Jim....I have seen the same thing on the used pricing for the classic Delta C-frame 14". Beats me why. Having said that, I just got done resawing some 8" WRC on my Delta....12+ years old with a few upgrade accessories, going strong. I don't resaw a lot, mostly general use...works well.

Also - FWIW - 30 year old PM VS drill press [USA built], 12 year old PM 8" jointer [off shore], 12 year old PM floor mortiser [off shore] are all ducky.

[Eric DeSilva]

another example of the superiority of a WMH tool group product. that's the kind of tool i want to buy. spend more on it than a comparable tool and then spend even more money trying to get it to perform like its supposed to.

My comment was not intended to be a commentary on WMH Tool Group products in general, only the PM 14" bandsaw. In fact, I recently bought a Jet 1642 EVS during their Code Red sale, and I have a 25Cs 3HP Jet shaper I picked up second hand. I have been very happy with the quality and price/performance of both machines. I've also used a number of other PM products, including their PM66, as well as a number of new and older planers and jointers. I've thought those were exceptional products, would not hesitate to buy one at the right price, but I tend to buy most of my heavy metal used, and the right deal didn't come along for PM products at the right time.

Bottom line--I simply don't like the PM 14" bandsaw as a resaw machine. Other than the 14SUV, which is a very different creature than the 14" bandsaws offered by other manufacturers, I haven't used any other 14" saws. I know my Laguna is vastly superior to the 14" PM for resawing, but you might argue its price puts it in a class with less expensive 17" saws. That said, I have some reservations about whether any 14" BS can be tensioned sufficiently for the use of large BS blades I favor for resawing.

[Jim Laumann]

Joseph

The Craftsman's I am seeing on CL (been searching 4 area cities) are mainly the style where the table stays put, and blade/wheels pivot. Some of them are pretty rough....looked on-line for Craftsman - only seeing table top models - haven't been to the local Sears store - yet.

Jim

[Van Huskey]

Bottom line--I simply don't like the PM 14" bandsaw as a resaw machine. Other than the 14SUV, which is a very different creature than the 14" bandsaws offered by other manufacturers, I haven't used any other 14" saws. I know my Laguna is vastly superior to the 14" PM for resawing, but you might argue its price puts it in a class with less expensive 17" saws. That said, I have some reservations about whether any 14" BS can be tensioned sufficiently for the use of large BS blades I favor for resawing.

The Laguna LT14SUV is superior to EVERY other 14" saw made or ever made, except the eastern European Laguna 14" saws which I have only seen but never used. To satisfy one how overbuilt the SUV is look at the size of the bearings and compare that to the bearings on any other 14" saw, then compare the tensioning assembly. There has only been 2 other 14" bandsaws I have seen/used that were built as beefy, Oliver made one and of course the PM 141/143 neither of them have near the resaw capacity nor the motor (stock) to handle what the Laguna does. If one doesn't need a wider throat the SUV beats all the cheaper 16/17/18" saws at resawing.

I do still think the PM is the best of breed new cast iron saw, it has all the upgrades one might consider over time for a lesser equipped saw, I however don't think resaw and 14" cast clone go together well so I don't recommend any of them for resawing. The steel spined saws with the Laguna at the top are the way to go for for 14" resawing saws. That said with the latest round of price increases for pretty much all bandsaws the 14" cast clones are a poorer value than before and would only consider the entry level versions like the G0555P with the understanding of their limitations. If you are not going to buy an entry level 14" saw I suggest moving to the steel spined saws and either get the Rikon and replace the guides, move up to the Laguna or go with a 17/18" saw like the Grizzly 513 series or the Rikon 18" saw. That all said I have never bought a new bandsaw but have owned dozens and would certainly suggest used IF it becomes available, but I do know that in a lot of places in the US good BS are rare and/or overpriced. I do understand the desire to just get the saw and use it as opposed to showing it some TLC before it is functional.

[George Panagopoulos]

I have also had great experience with Powermatic and Jet tools. I find the PJ882HH jointer to be an upgrade over my previous European jointer/planer and the Jet 208HH to be an excellent planer. I also agree the Powermatic 719 mortiser is very good. The tools do carry a premium and have better fit and finish from what I have observed but they are made in Taiwan vs. China so there is a cost associated with that.

[Brian Weick]

I would choose neither......



Oliver- anything before 1980
Northfield,
Yates,
etc..etc..etc...



B,

[Van Huskey]

I have also had great experience with Powermatic and Jet tools. I find the PJ882HH jointer to be an upgrade over my previous European jointer/planer and the Jet 208HH to be an excellent planer. I also agree the Powermatic 719 mortiser is very good. The tools do carry a premium and have better fit and finish from what I have observed but they are made in Taiwan vs. China so there is a cost associated with that.


Just FYI some of the PM stuff is indeed made in China.

[David Kumm]

I would choose neither......



Oliver- anything before 1980
Northfield,
Yates,
etc..etc..etc...



B,

Brian, we tried that all ready. The problem with current 14" saws is they have all become price point units as sizes have moved up in low cost steel saws. The castings are pretty thin compared to how they used to be built. The old saws had Meehanite ratings. I doubt the new ones are of the same structure in the cast. Dave

[Jeff Nicol]

The first thing is that PM and Jet are owned by the same company, you can even by them in other countries where the PM lathe is painted Jet colors but with the same number like the 3520b lathe, so a search and you will find this for sure. The next thing is that just about everything that has any cast iron parts, those cast parts are made in china or taiwan, so nothing is completely made in the USA. If you look at the castings of the regular Jet 14, the Delta 14, the PM 14 and many others they are vertually identical, but the milling after the casting or the casting itself may be a little better on the more expensive saws. The pricey ones will also have better bearings and motor, but not always, you would have to do a one on one comparison in person to make the call on that. The new style Jet, Rikon and Laguana all look surprisingly similar now too, and it comes down to a few things like cast iron wheels, foot brake, multiple speeds, quick change blade and good guides will be the things I would look for. I have a Jet 14" with a riser that I have had for 12 years and I put carter guides on it and made my own fence and I rarely ever use a miter gauge on it but when I need to I use the one from my table saw. I have resawn 10" wide oak and maple with my Jet and with a sharp blade and good set up I have no trouble at all. I then have an old 26" heavy cast bandsaw with only a 10" depth of cut, but I can cut a big circle with it! I am going to put a foot brake on it due to the heavy cast wheels it will keep running for a long time after it is shut off. I have a 2HP 3PH motor and a VFD running it so I can have any variable speed I want and can set the VFD for braking also but the mechanical foot brake will be quicker. But I am spoiled when it comes to sawing and re-sawing as I have a LT30 Woodmizer sawmill to cut most anything I need.

So If I had $1200 to spend on a BS I would look for the most bang for my buck, if you want new go with the bigger jet, Rickon, Grizzly or the Laguna. The Minimax are nice saws too so it is still a hard choice, but it will always depend on how much you intend to use it and what you plan to cut with it. Just like any big purchase you will be happy for a while and then something else will come along and you will say.......MMMMM maybe a new saw????? We are all toolaholics at heart!

Good luck and enjoy whichever saw you buy,

Jeff

[Van Huskey]

The new style Jet, Rikon and Laguana all look surprisingly similar now too, and it comes down to a few things like cast iron wheels, foot brake, multiple speeds, quick change blade and good guides will be the things I would look for. Jeff

Don't lump the Laguna saws in with the Jet and Rikon steel spined saws, the only similarity is the overall outside geometric shapes. "Under the hood" they are as similar as a Ford Ranger and a F150.

[George Panagopoulos]

Van,

Fair point. I did not mean to make a general statement that all Jet and PM are made in taiwan. The experience that I have with my items has been good but they are made in Taiwan. I do think each tool needs to be compared to what is available in its category not just buy by the brand.

[Van Huskey]

Van,

Fair point. I did not mean to make a general statement that all Jet and PM are made in taiwan. The experience that I have with my items has been good but they are made in Taiwan. I do think each tool needs to be compared to what is available in its category not just buy by the brand.

I think your experience parrallels mine, the machines made in Taiwan tend to be better than those made in China but that is too much of a generality as well, as you say you must buy the machine not the brand.

[Joseph Tarantino]

Joseph

The Craftsman's I am seeing on CL (been searching 4 area cities) are mainly the style where the table stays put, and blade/wheels pivot. Some of them are pretty rough....looked on-line for Craftsman - only seeing table top models - haven't been to the local Sears store - yet.

Jim

i'm not sure i know what you mean by wheels pivoting. this is the saw i was referring:

http://www.sears.com/craftsman-professional-1-hp-14-34-band-saw-22401/p-00922401000P

i realize it notes it's presently unavailable, but checking with individual stores, you just might get lucky. popular wwking rated it a top value in their 2006 14" BS review. BTW, what cities are you focusing your search on?

[Jim Laumann]

i'm not sure i know what you mean by wheels pivoting. this is the saw i was referring:

http://www.sears.com/craftsman-professional-1-hp-14-34-band-saw-22401/p-00922401000P

i realize it notes it's presently unavailable, but checking with individual stores, you just might get lucky. popular wwking rated it a top value in their 2006 14" BS review. BTW, what cities are you focusing your search on?

Joseph

Am located in SE MN - near Rochester. Twin Cities metro is to the N - 100 miles +/-.

See attached pic - this is the style of Craftsman saw I most often see on CL. This one is listed @ $250.

When I looked on the Craftsman web site yesterday - I didn't see the one you described - thanks for the link.

Jim

220231

[Joseph Tarantino]

i'm not familiar with that model saw, but with an aluminum table, it's probably realatively light weight. and $250 just seems to be a bit much for it. perhaps someone else can add a more informed opinion about its serviceability.

[Brian Weick]

All I will say is once you get a piece of Arn in your shop, the addiction has begun.......


Like niight and day compared to the new saws IMO........

The Oliver 192 would be suitable , I realize it's an 18" but it would be considered an upgrade.....

http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/detail.aspx?id=978

Just my 2 cents...

B,

[Van Huskey]

That 12" Craftsman is an odd little duck, not worth near $250.

You will probably see lots of the ubiquitous 12" CMs (not this tilter) on CL, they can be a decent little saw within their capacity. Many of them are over priced but if you are patient you can usually pick one up for under (well under sometimes) $100.

[Van Huskey]

All I will say is once you get a piece of Arn in your shop, the addiction has begun....... Agreed.


Like niight and day compared to the new saws IMO........ You can still buy saws just as good, big uberheavy CI saws are still made here and in Italy but cost

The Oliver 192 would be suitable , I realize it's an 18" but it would be considered an upgrade.....

http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/detail.aspx?id=978

Just my 2 cents...

B,

I do love old iron though, I just wish more of the ones I want would show up at a decent price NOT half way across the continent. Then again maybe not, I would end up with a shop full of nothing but old bandsaws!