looking to buy a laser

[TAMI WILSON]

I want to buy a laser later this year. The problem I am having with Trotec is the rep doesn't seem like he wants to talk to me as I won't be buying it today.
I will be buying a small machine sometime after I go to the next trade show and look at all three Universal Epilog and Trotec.
I have been following the Laser threads here and appreciate everyones input. From what I am reading I am assuming Trotec is more $$$ than the comparable Universal and Epilog?? Now i know you trotec people will say there is no comparison. LOL But since the Trotec rep is not interested in talking to me I need to ask your help.

Thanks
Tami

[Dan Hintz]

Tami,

A number of us have had similar issues with Trotec in the past (plenty of partial threads about it). In my case, I couldn't get them to call me back at all, and I ended up with a ULS. As far as pricing, Steve, Keith, et.al. say the pricing has come down significantly (Trotec was the most expensive, by far, of the machines I looked at back in the day) and is now quite competitive with the other major brands.

[Gary Max]

If they won't talk to you now what happens after they have your money???????? Personally-------- service is everything and without it you have nothing.

[Mike Null]

Tami

Why not call Trotec headquarters. For what it's worth I ran into the same situation with Universal when I bought my last machine. I ended up with a Trotec and it has been incredible including the tech support.

I don't think anybody can tell you accurately what the prices are except the company you're buying from as all prices are negotiable.

[Michael Conley]

Tami,

I had the same problem with a Trotec rep and I was ready to buy. I was unable to get a written quote from the rep, so I scratched Trotec from consideration and bought an Epilog Mini 18 instead. The rep also promised to provide a couple of sample engravings that never arrived.

I know many people will tell you that it is after the sale support that matters but there is no reason to tolerate an unresponsive sales representative when Epilog and Universal cheerfully provide pre-sale assistance and like Trotec, both provide excellent support after you purchase their products.

[Scott Shepherd]

I have had numerous discussions with our Trotec sales rep, telling him repeatedly that Trotec's reputation was that their sales reps don't follow up very well, or in many cases, at all. That's a real shame. When we bought our first laser (Epilog), we bought it because the sales rep was super friendly and helpful during the sale. The machine was installed and we never heard from him again. We had problems with the machine, not a peep from him. We just about begged him to help us and all he would do is refer us to the factory for a long, long time. So that "helpful sales rep" can quickly turn into nothing once your check clears.

When we bought our Universal, we decided that the rep didn't matter, all we needed from them was for them to take the order. After you get the machine, all help questions should go through the factory anyway. So we bought the Universal, and moved on. Any issues, we'd call the factory to get them resolved. That rep did turn out to be very good and he would contact us to see how things were going and if they could do anything for us.

Personally, we buy machines based on their capability, not their sales rep. We're in business to make money so we buy the machine that fits our needs the best. If the best machine for us is out there and we have to struggle through the sales rep to get it, then we'll do that. For us, it would be shortsighted to purchase a machine that didn't do what we need just because we couldn't get a sales rep to call us back. If the machine is what we need, then we'll pick up the phone and make the call to him, instead of waiting for them to call us.

A Trotec might not be the best machine for you, or it might be the perfect machine for you, but discounting a machine because someone doesn't call you back isn't a great business strategy in my opinion. We're talking about sales reps here, not service people. Trotec has outstanding service, as do Epilog and Universal, and all 3 of them will pick up the phone when you call and get you parts the next day. Personally, I have called all 3 for service. He's what I have found. More often than not, I get a voice mail from Epilog and Universal. More often than not, I get a person first try from Trotec. I've only called them a few times to ask simple questions, so my experience with them so far is limited.

How many times has the sales rep for your car called you since you bought your car? Expect a laser sales rep to call you about the same number of times.

[Michael Conley]

I have never dealt with any car dealer who was too busy to provide me with a written quote. If somebody is too busy to do something as simple as generate a written quote, it refllects very poorly on the company. When I bought my first Epilog, the sales rep was there for me before the purchase and when I decided to exit the business and he helped me dispose of the laser at a fair price when I decided to close my business. A laser engraver is not a commodity and people have a right to expect both a professional sales staff and outstanding after the sale support.

[Scott Shepherd]

I have never dealt with any car dealer who was too busy to provide me with a written quote. If somebody is too busy to do something as simple as generate a written quote, it refllects very poorly on the company. When I bought my first Epilog, the sales rep was there for me before the purchase and when I decided to exit the business and he helped me dispose of the laser at a fair price when I decided to close my business. A laser engraver is not a commodity and people have a right to expect both a professional sales staff and outstanding after the sale support.

I agree, you should EXPECT it, but in the end, you're not buying a sales rep, you're buying a machine to use in your business.

If you used that same philosophy, you could have the worst machine in the world and a super attentive sales rep. So what would that leave you? A bad machine with a good sales rep. So what have you got to run your business? I merely suggest you should pick the machine that's best for your business and just deal with the fact you might have some issues with the sales rep.

I'm pretty sure Universal has taken an approach to sales that is crippling the old time sales reps. You used to have factory designated sales areas and people had their regions. I suspect they could charge what they wanted and they made decent money. From what I can see, Universal is bringing the pricing down on the lasers at the expense of the reps. So where you might have made $3000 on a sale, you're probably lucky to clear $500 now, and for the time invested in the sale, you're hardly making it. I say that not because I have inside knowledge, but as an outsider looking in, watching their practices, like selling their machines directly to the customers as well as offering them up to large regional distributors, where you used to have to buy from the regional dealer.

Trotec does have an issue, they need to do a better job on sales leads. Period. But I'd make a couple of phone calls myself if I thought it was the machine that was right for us, instead of saying "Well, they didn't call me back, so I'll disregard their entire product line". I have people not call me back on a daily basis from a variety of industries. People are stretched thin these days and many people are working 10-12 hour days just trying to do the work they have.

[Mike Null]

I can't add a whole lot to what Steve has said but I ran into the exact situation when I bought my first laser (Universal) I had a rep in Chicago and I went there to see the machine--the reps didn't care enough to come to St. Louis. After I bought it I never saw nor heard from the rep again but their tech support was excellent.

Don't get hung up on reps--they are relatively unimportant in the whole scheme of things. The other thing is that the reps are NOT employees--they are independent business men. Good ones are the exception not the rule.

I bought the Trotec because I did a lot of homework and determined that it was the best equipment on the market.

[Michael Conley]

I agree, you should EXPECT it, but in the end, you're not buying a sales rep, you're buying a machine to use in your business.

If you used that same philosophy, you could have the worst machine in the world and a super attentive sales rep. So what would that leave you? A bad machine with a good sales rep. So what have you got to run your business? I merely suggest you should pick the machine that's best for your business and just deal with the fact you might have some issues with the sales rep.

I'm pretty sure Universal has taken an approach to sales that is crippling the old time sales reps. You used to have factory designated sales areas and people had their regions. I suspect they could charge what they wanted and they made decent money. From what I can see, Universal is bringing the pricing down on the lasers at the expense of the reps. So where you might have made $3000 on a sale, you're probably lucky to clear $500 now, and for the time invested in the sale, you're hardly making it. I say that not because I have inside knowledge, but as an outsider looking in, watching their practices, like selling their machines directly to the customers as well as offering them up to large regional distributors, where you used to have to buy from the regional dealer.

Trotec does have an issue, they need to do a better job on sales leads. Period. But I'd make a couple of phone calls myself if I thought it was the machine that was right for us, instead of saying "Well, they didn't call me back, so I'll disregard their entire product line". I have people not call me back on a daily basis from a variety of industries. People are stretched thin these days and many people are working 10-12 hour days just trying to do the work they have.You are making some false assumptions to set up a straw man argument. I had settled on a Trotec Rayjet and requested a demo. No dice. I assume that I could have driven a few hours to see a Rayjet in action but that would have cost me a few hundred dollars in lost income. After watching all of the video that I could find and reading comments on this website by members who had seen the Rayjet, I decided that I could live without a live demo. So, I asked for a small sample engraving using my fully processed CorelDraw file. The Trotec sales rep agreed but never sent me the sample that he promised. I requested a written quote during a phone call and followed up with multiple email messages. Still no response.

Contrast my experience with Trotec with both ULS and Epilog. In both cases, I received quotes on multiple systems within a few hours of requesting them - and I did not ask for a speedy response. Both reps answered all of my questions and neither disparaged the products of their competitors (The Trotec rep did so).

If Trotec had a monopoly on quality laser engravers, then I would have been willing to jump through their hoops just to buy their product. But they have no such monopoly, so their indifference to my modest requests was intolerable.

This was not a case of getting my feelings hurt by a single unreturned phone call, as you suggested, and it was not a case of settling for a Yugo when I could have had a Mercedes for the same price. The Epilog Mini 18 is a better machine than the entry level Rayjet and it was only slightly more expensive. The Trotec sales rep did me a favor by making it difficult to buy from his company.

[Mike Null]

If the Trotec rep was truly that negligent then he deserved to lose the business.

I hope you have a great experience with your new Epilog.

[David Fairfield]

Sales reps are individuals, you get all sorts. Same as you shouldn't let a super sales guy make your choice for you, you shouldn't let a bad sales guy make your choice for you either. Talk to the laser manufacturer and see if they can get him to move.

I had a good experience with my Epilog sales rep, kept his appointments, soft sell, came to the house for a demo, has been in touch.

Dave

[Keith Outten]

Fortunately for us we don't need to contact a Trotec sales rep anymore.

We are now connected to someone in the Michigan office who can quote prices, make a decision and offer a substantial SawMill Creek discount.

Anyone who is serious about purchasing a Trotec laser engraver can send me a Private Message and request the information. I will be glad to provide the name, and number of someone who will be absolutely happy to assist you in every way possible.....if you have been a Member here for awhile.

[Dee Gallo]

Wow, Keith, where's the LIKE button?

[Braden Todd]

Hey Tami,

I can only speak of my Epilog, and thus far I have loved having it! After the sale my rep did kind of vanish, but Epilog tech support has been great! I had an issue with a fan control switch and it was solved that day, helps that the plant is just 1 town over.

I would love to learn more about Trotec, mostly because of the speeds they can run (pending your power).

Are there any specific machines you have narrowed it down to?

Good luck in your search!

[Neil Pabia]

I spent a year searching for the right laser, it just happens that my salesman is the same as Davids and a great guy. I was out of the country when my laser was to be delivered so he arranged for it to be delivered to his house and then brought it to my shop when I returned home. He is also the only one that would come to my house, discuss a price, and spend any time showing me how the laser would work in the capacity that I needed it, not just showing me what it could do but what it would do for my application. I also met the owner of Epilog and he is a very easy guy to talk to as well and is available if there is ever a problem. I will be coming up on a year with my Helix and am extremely happy with the salesman, the tech support, and the machine.

[Ross Moshinsky]

Like many here, I wouldn't think much about the sales rep. It's far more important to be able to call the 800 number and get someone on the other line who can help you out. A good sales rep for me is just an added bonus.

If a sales rep won't get back to you. Talk to someone higher up in the food chain. They will make sure you get what you need. The big bosses have zero tolerance for that kind of nonsense.

[Jim Reinhard]

I have to disagree about the sales rep not being important.My rep has been very active.If I have a probelm or question about my laser he always answers and is happy to help with any questions.He is also quick and follows up to make sure the problem was resolved even months after my purchase .If I were you I would look at GCC lasers also.

[Dee Gallo]

I agree with Jim. My rep, Jeff Aichinger (Epilog) was great to arrange my buy with, but more importantly has always been there if I call or email him for anything at all. He set me up with a great tech guy when I needed one, helped me with settings when I was starting out, organized laser conventions for the upstate NY area, sends out a newsletter and notices whenever there are used lasers or sales going on, even tax info. He's friendly and helpful and always available. When I was thinking about buying a fiber, even though I told him I was just researching (not buying right then), he sent me full specs and literature about many options related to marking metal. Having someone who knows his industry saves me a lot of time and effort ... and getting wrong info from people who don't really know. On the other hand, he does not pester me with constant selling pitches.

cheers, dee

[Mike Null]

Dee

I know Jeff. He's one of the exceptions I was referring to.

[TAMI WILSON]

I want to buy a laser later this year. The problem I am having with Trotec is the rep doesn't seem like he wants to talk to me as I won't be buying it today.
I will be buying a small machine sometime after I go to the next trade show and look at all three Universal Epilog and Trotec.
I have been following the Laser threads here and appreciate everyones input. From what I am reading I am assuming Trotec is more $$$ than the comparable Universal and Epilog?? Now i know you trotec people will say there is no comparison. LOL But since the Trotec rep is not interested in talking to me I need to ask your help.

Thanks
Tami

Isn't Social Media Wonderful. I just got a call from Mubarak at Trotec. He was ever so helpful and answered all my questions. Trotec just jumped up to the top of my list. :-) I was happy to hear Trotec's price was comparable to Epilog and Universal.
I look forward to checking out the "Big Three" at the next trade show.

Tami

[Dee Gallo]

I hope Trotec reps are paying attention, Mubarak is making a smart move. We all know that word of mouth is a great help in this business and it can hurt too. One rep taking the right steps might influence the others and it's a win-win for all. I know that many of the Epilog reps make a real effort to provide fast and friendly service, and that is encouraged by the Epilog company...with good results. Sounds like ULS has done the same. The Chinese laser companies have made some progress there too. A laser is not a cheap or common tool to buy, and buyers deserve to be treated well.

I would like to think that SMC has made a difference here. Yay us! Good luck with your research, Tami.

cheers, dee

[Scott Shepherd]

Mubarak Akram is our sales rep as well. He called often and was easy to deal with. You can reach him at mubarak.akram@troteclaser.com.