Rut? Groove? Similar? Same?

[David DeCristoforo]

We often hear about "signature style". Among turners, signature style seems to be something of a "holy grail". Turners seem to want their work to be immediately recognizable as theirs. Many turners produce pieces that are more or less "the same". More often than not, these pieces are not "the same" but "similar", based on a concept, shape or combination of elements that become a "signature". You could look at Doug Fisher's sculptural platters or the hollow forms done by Andy DiPetro or Joe Landon or the cast pieces that are instantly recognized as the work of Allen Trout. It's not often that a Keith Burns piece goes unrecognized as his and the list goes on and on.


It is seeming to me that this may be either a blessing or a curse, depending, of course, as is the case with many things, on one's perspective. So I would like to ask: Where does "signature style" morph from a "groove" to a "rut"? At what point does the exploration into the variations a particular form offers become a stagnant pool?


Obviously this is going to vary wildly from one person to another. And it might be obvious why I pose this question at this particular point. But the answers might make for interesting reading on a quiet Sunday afternoon.

[Mark Hubl]

Interesting topic. I am lucky that I am not yet skilled or creative enough to get in a rut. But, I had a nice conversation with a well known artist at SOFA. He intimated that he was in a rut and wanted to try some new and different stuff. I noticed that he and some of the others are expanding their signature by casting either metal or glass to add breadth to their line. He also pointed out that one of the problems of the "rut" is that once you do have a particular style or signature that is what the galleries/collectors/customers want. Kind of a two edged sword. I guess if the "rut" pays the bills it must be dealt with.

Another fella was taking one of his signature styles and having glass blown and then adding wood bits to them. He leads the glass blowing efforts by dictating the colors used. The glass series compliments his work because he is really known for his use of color. He was not so much in a rut but chasing new revenue streams by leveraging his past and current success.

[Dennis Ford]

I think it being a "rut" is more of a problem to the turner than anyone else.

[Robert McGowen]

I think that the answer to your question is fairly simple. Are you doing what YOU want to do?

I personally have never quite understood having a "signature" piece simply because the audience deciding what your signature is is so small, maybe a couple hundred people or less if you are on SMC.

I think you go from a "groove" to a "rut" when someone else is telling you what to turn instead of you deciding what to turn. If you really want to turn tall slender pieces on a stem and you look forward to turning the next one, that is being in the "groove.". If a gallery tells you they want 10 tall slender pieces on a stem because they sell well, and you had rather be turning a bowl, then you are in a "rut.". I guess you could also be in a rut if you try to turn a bowl and it ends up being a tall slender bowl on a stick!

To me, it is all about doing what you want to do when you want to be doing it. YMMV

[David E Keller]

Interesting topic... As a hobbiest, I suppose I don't have the same perspective that many of you who sell through galleries. The signature style has always seemed more of a burden or a hindrance than a grail. I'd rather be known(if I'm known at all) as a person who's capable of turning just about anything. Jimmy Clewes comes to mind as someone who lacks a particular signature but is obviously respected for his turning abilities. I'm no Clewes, but that situation appeals to me more than one where I'm expected to turn a particular doodad because it's my signature. Actors and actresses often try to avoid playing similar roles over and over so as not to limit their available roles... The signature style seems to be the turners equivalent of type casting. I'd rather be De Niro than Schwartzenegger I guess.

I'm not suggesting that the turners you mentioned aren't capable of numerous other forms and techniques... They most certainly are, and many of them have shown works outside of their signature style. I think variations on a theme are a great way to develop a technique, but after a while, I start to feel like I'm watching Rocky 217. The signature seems to be 'safe' after a point, and that's where I begin to lose interest. With that said, those folks aren't turning for me, so I suppose my take on the matter is pretty irrelevant. I've changed the verbiage on this post a number of times, and it still doesn't read the way I intend it, but I'm tired of revising it.

What say you, David? Do you feel you're in a rut or a groove?

[John Keeton]

I struggled with this for a few months, and felt the "need" to acquire a "signature style" - even though I am a relative newbie at this turning thing. But, within the last couple of months, I have come to the conclusion that I need the freedom to venture out. I also need to accomplish a variety of things.

I have satisfied myself I can do finials and pedestals, and I can do the standard hollow forms. Now, I want to play with dyes for awhile. So many things - so little time!!

Even though one of my goals is to sell more of my work, it is taking a back seat to the fun part. With the economy the way it is, few of my pieces are selling, and I don't feel the need to pile up a bunch of work that isn't going anywhere. Time to have some fun and experiment!! The reality is - I will never by a well recognized turner, but I can enjoy the self satisfaction of accomplishing a variety of turning skills as I travel down this road.

While I like your amphora series, David, I could never do that - at least, for very long. I need more variety, and there are so many things I haven't tried yet. My recent health issues have profoundly affected my outlook on life in general, and I suspect that may be at play here, as well.;)

[Allan Ferguson]

I shift around on the things I turn. Today, turned a would be Aspin lamp shade. May be a bit too thick but have to try and sand it when it dries. Often try new things. And the odd flat work that might come my way.

[James Combs]

I shift around on the things I turn. Today, turned a would be Aspin lamp shade. May be a bit too thick but have to try and sand it when it dries. Often try new things. And the odd flat work that might come my way.

I am very much like Allen, I will turn a few pens one day, maybe a bowl or platter the next, make a tool I have been wanting the next, repair a nice old ladies chair next etc. Don't like to get in any kind of rut turning/making the same basic think over and over. To me this is truly hobby work with the hope of selling enough to keep me in supplies. My signature is usually JD Combs :D or something similar to that.

[Curt Fuller]

I think it depends on who you're turning for. If you're turning to satisfy your own creative side then you're constantly trying new things. But if you're turning to keep the checkbook in the black you're going to have to have a certain amount of "signature style" that can be recognized at a glance. After all, who's gonna pay the big bucks for a collectible DeChristoforo if you can't tell it's a DeChristoforo. But I don't think that means you can't branch out and try new things either. If you look at any of the work of well recognized artists you'll see transitional changes in their style over time. Just look at the albums of those artists you've mentioned as an example.

[Baxter Smith]

At least you have enough "style" to entertain having a signature one David.:) Since I am lacking in "style", there is no point in me looking for one.:) Similar perhaps to something David Ellsworth has said about "finding your voice". Maybe someday I will trip over mine, but for now I am not really looking. A requirement perhaps to have your work be "in demand", but since that isn't why I play, drifting here and there is good enough for me. As long as you are enjoying what you are doing, either way doesn't really matter.

[Ed Morgano]

David,
I think Robert has the best answer so far. I haven't been in this vortex that long, but I have really enjoyed trying different shapes, processes etc. Admittedly I've mainly been focused on developing the skills to do the work. At this point, my skills are fair so I'm looking for new challenges to keep this fun. Recently, I signed up for a "Arts & Crafts" fair in March in a local town. Not so much for sales as for some local exposure. However, I have already come to a point where I'm not excited about doing this. It is a commitment that requires that I finish enough things to present a presentable display of my work. That = pressure which takes away from the fun. I'm going to deal with this but it's something to think about. First and foremost, you need to enjoy what you're doing. You have an exceptional talent that a lot of us admire so keep up the great work...whether it be a continuation of your series or something new.

[Jamie Donaldson]

I had this same discussion many years ago with the owners of del Mano Gallery in LA, and the gist was/is that they want a signature style from an artist in order to enhance the recognition and marketability of that particular artist. I have been turning for 25 yrs. now, and have no interest in establishing a style, as that would bind me to a repetition that would make my turning feel like a job requirement. So I know that I will never be a "recognized" turning artist, and that's just fine with me, because I'm retired and not interested in having another "real" day to day job! Been there, done that, and have the T shirts to prove it!

[John Beaver]

David, thanks for starting this thread. It is certainly a double edge sword, however I guess we all have to look at our motivations for turning. Someone once said to be successful you have to be the first or the best.

My "signature" has opened many doors and given me many opportunities that I don't think I would otherwise have. While I'm always experimenting and looking for that next idea, I know that there is an expectation and market for my "wave" bowls, and they definitely outsell my other pieces. I am now left walking that tightrope between being a creative artist and a businessman. I spent 25 years in the motion picture business and while there was a lot of creativity, after a while you definitely get pigeon holed and end up repeating things you have done before. It may not be the ideal creative situation, but it pays the bills. So now I'm up against the same situation in woodturning. I have one variation that is my highest priced design, and the most work for me - yet I have sold every one I have made. Am I going to make only that design? - no. Am I going to keep making that design? - you bet. I am always working on new versions but if I make a piece that I like and it sells, then I want to remake that piece so I can offer it to the next client or have it at the next show.

I know a turner who had a very successful signature but has moved on to another style. He is not selling as well as he was and had to take a different job to make ends meet. I keep asking him, would he rather be doing this other job, or repeating his signature and turning for a living? Jamie said he will "never be a recognized turning artist and that's fine with him." Personally I want to be a recognized artist so I am willing to accept those compromises. I am getting to a point where the turning is feeling like a job sometimes (I'm probably working more hours now then in my old job) but I can say that's it's the best job I can imagine.

[Bill Hensley]

There is a fine line between a rut and a groove. My take on it as a hobbiest is if it is fun then I'm in the groove. If it starts feeling like work it's a rut.

Like others have mentioned, my style or type of turnings varies and my interest in each style is typically short term so for the most part I stay in the groove. Am I willing to sacrifice the groove for a signature "rut"? That all depends on the return and in my area the return seems to equate to $2 to $3 an hour for local turners. Maybe someday....maybe

[Kenneth Hertzog]

If its selling it is signature style
if it isn't then its a rut or groove
the object is to keep the flow going and having fun doing it
if not then it becomes a JOB not freedom of expression
ken

[Cody Colston]

I guess when one eventually tires of a form or seemingly exhausts all the variances of it, then it becomes a rut. Personally, though, I feel that with each piece of wood being unique, each completed turning is also unique, regardless of form.

It's impossible to turn two exact pieces even when trying. The changing properties of wood do not allow it. Now imagine trying to select wood whose color, texture and character make the piece unique...that's easy to do because the wood itself is already unique...ie, one-of-a-kind.

Woodworkers (especially turners) are blessed with such variance in our chosen medium. That's what makes the process almost rut proof. :)

[David DeCristoforo]

Lots of interesting perspectives. Personally, I do not feel like I am in a rut. I really enjoy exploring the "amphora on a stick" thing and I do not feel like I have even come close to exhausting the possibilities. As Cody pointed out, even though they are the same basic form, each one has been, at least to my eyes, unique. I do feel the tug of other ideas. Right now it's spheres. There's a gorgeous piece of maple burl on the lathe being made into one right now. I had a big argument with myself over whether or not this was the best use for this wood (part of one of the chunks David Reed gave me) but the sphere won. I think I will continue to play with the amphora form for some time to come while allowing the other ideas that go zinging around in my head room to breathe also.

[Alan Trout]

I think John Beaver pretty much sums up my perspective. I am always working on an idea either with my hands or in my mind and how I can accomplish those ideas. I turn because I enjoy it. I have never had a problem selling any piece, and it is not because I am getting money but because others enjoy the piece enough that they want to own it. In some ways my pieces are kind of like my kids. I know where I went wrong with them and I know their faults, but I love them just the same. At times portions of the task are like a job, but the entire process as a whole is just so much fun it is never a burden and I hope it will never be.

I have so many ideas that i can use my techniques with that I should have new pieces for several years but I plan to do the tried and true as they are still fun to make and as long as people like them I will make them.

If you look at the people that I consider true professional turners they have a style and a niche. I think that Is really how they became pros. But most of the pro's venture out and test new waters.

Alan

[Wally Dickerman]

It's interesting how often many of us can look at a thumbnail pic on WoW and can instantly identify who the turner is. With many turners it isn't a "signature" piece, just a style. Some of the top turners turn a number of pieces and call it a series of work. Ellsworth has done that. Christian Burchard with his hollowed spheres and his group of wet turned madrone pieces is a good example. John Jordan had a style of mostly textured small opening, tall hollowforms, then went to his present series of hollowed, carved and textured pieces. He is being copied a lot now so I expect John to go on to something else one day.

While these series of pieces are being done, they could be called their signature work. None of these turners could be said to be in a rut. At least not in my opinion.