More Finishing Details?

[Peter Blair]

I have read and watched all the responses to Gregg's "Start to Finish" but wonder if there is any chance any of you could add a just little more detail regarding final finishing/polishing? Most of these threads seem to touch on this subject without a lot of specific detail.

I am in total awe of final Creeker results, but what I read is "sand with XXX then XXX etc then apply finish". Is it really that simple?

Do you H have a separate finishing room? I know some of the finishing takes a long time so how do you keep working on finishing one piece while you begun a new one? Do you leave the piece in a chuck or ????

I know a lot of you use the Beale polishing system but for those of us who don't, how do you get rid of the dust bits and nibs? Have you used Auto polish? If so what sort, etc. etc. etc. Did or does it work?

It would be great if some detailed sequences could be either added to Greggs 'sticky' or comprise a new one for future reference.

[Bill Hensley]

Peter the finishing process can be as elaborate as you want to make it. I try to keep mine simple. I typically sand to 600 and prefer to spray lacquer. I'll seal the wood with either shellac or sanding sealer then spray on or off the lathe. I have a buffing system so I'll lightly wet sand with 600 after the lacquer has had time to harden. This step removes dust nibs and levels the finish. I'll then start buffing with white diamond and followup with wax.

Before I had the buffing system I would wet sand with Micro Mesh going through the grits, 1500 - 12000. Then follow that up with auto polish and maybe wax. The buffing system eliminated the Micro Mesh step. The end results, for me, are very similar.

I don't have a finishing room or area so I don't often do slower finishes like oil. If I do I'll set items out of the way or under a box or some type of cover to minimize the dust nibs.

Final suggestion - don't rush it, take your time, patience is a virtue, etc...

[John Keeton]

Pete, everyone is going to have a different method, and that method will vary somewhat depending on the wood used, the type of work being done and on the finish of choice. It will also depend on whether the piece is being dyed.

Typically, my ultimate finish is Minwax wipe on poly - satin. I prefer the satin for a couple of reasons. First, it seems to lay down much flatter for me and has less chance of runs or defects. That may just have to do with my application skills. And, it remains soft a little longer allowing me to buff the piece with less effort, which I typically do within 24 hours of the last coat.

On a non-dyed piece, my finishing schedule is as follows:

On the lathe, I sand to 320, then apply boiled linseed oil with a piece of paper shop towel, then sand with 400 with the lathe on. I apply one more coat of BLO, and crank up the speed and burnish with 0000 steel wool. I then apply dewaxed shellac - 2-3 coats, using the same piece of oil laden towel, burnish with the towel at high speed and again buff with 0000 at high speed. At this point, I am done on the lathe and the piece is removed, reversed and the bottom finished by hand with sanding, BLO, and shellac - after being signed.

Off the lathe, and after waiting a couple of days, I begin applying the WOP - usually around 5-6 coats. Then, wet sand with mineral spirits to level the finish, and apply a couple more coats. I do this in the house to avoid contaminating the finish with dust. Then, triple buff with Tripoli, white diamond and Renaissance wax.

If the piece is being dyed, then the piece is removed from the lathe for finishing. I "set" the dye with lacquer. If the entire piece is dyed the same color, I will rub on Deft brushing lacquer, diluted about 10-20% with Acetone (Jamie Donaldson secret!) - 2-3 coats, perhaps more depending on the absorption. This step can be done quickly as the lacquer will be dry enough to re-coat in 15-20 minutes - usually. I normally will not use shellac over the lacquer to avoid the amber tone of the shellac. From here, the wipe on poly schedule is the same.

When a piece is dyed, that is normally done on the lathe, and depending on the wood species and desired effect, black will be applied first, then sanded back with 320 and 400 to remove what will appear to be most of the black. Then apply the final color. I use water based dyes now, and that requires sanding again - usually at 600 in both forward and reverse to rid the piece of raised grain.

Hope this helps.

[Peter Blair]

HI John. This is a tremendous help. So many pieces, so little time. My plan is to print out all the suggestions I get and then experiment with them to try to find the way that works best for me. Looks as though I'll have to weaken and get a buffing set-up of some sort . . .

Thanks!

[Scott Hackler]

Peter,

Here is my finishing processes:


Power sand (on lathe, speed about 600rpm on bowls or larger items/ around 2000 for finials and stems), with good quality paper. I, personally, use Vince's pink Cera-Max discs. I like them a lot because of the consistancy in the grit and the way they cut. I generally start and follow this progression 120 - 180 - 220 - 320 - 400. Sometimes a little hand sanding with the same grits (with the grain), between the grits. I also sand in forward and reverse with every grit and blow off the piece in between every grit and direction. Light touch/pressure. Let the paper do the work.

Finials and stems are ONLY sanded with 220 - 400 - 600 wet/dry auto sandpaper and followed up by synthetic steel wool grey then white.

One of the very best suggestions for sand paper has been said as "use the sand paper as if someone else is paying for it", meaning throw out the worn out stuff! I use a new set of discs on every project (for the most part). It helps more than you know. I also use, contrary to popular thinking, really like the black 3M wet/dry paper for hand sanding in the higher grits. I think the grit is better and the paper lasts longer (for me).

Satin/soft finishes:

On figured or dark colored wood, I like BLO (boiled linseed oil) for a first coat. I like to apply it on the lathe (spinning) and apply pressure until I can feel the heat through the paper towel I use for applying. This help a little to start curing the BLO. Smaller stuff (Christmas ornaments) will get assembled after this, set for 30 mintues and spray lacquer. Larger stuff gets some shelf time for at least 1 day (or until the BLO doesn't smell real strong and there is NO oily residue on your hands after touching it). Then I will either wax it up, or Beal buff to smooth and then wax. Sometimes I will substitute Antique Oil, Danish Oil, Walnut Oil or just the thinned shellac.

Glossy finish:

All of the above and then a light rubbing with 600 grit wet dry or 0000 steel wool and then I apply a coat of thinned shellac (50% dilluted Bulls-Eye clear) for a sanding sealer. The next day I rub it down again with the steel wool. Next a coat of gloss WOP (wipe on poly). Next day, sand it with 600 wet dry until all parts are matte/dull. Repeat x 4 minimum. Then a finial rub down with the 600 and a trip to the Beal wheels.

Final for all projects is a hand waxing with Ren Wax. I switched to this wax because Carnuba (on the Beal system) tends to leave finger prints.

Of course there are different variations. One is substituting rattle can lacquer for the WOP. I personally like lacquer because of the shorter time between coats, but the WOP seems to give more depth. I have also had issues with lacquer "orange pealing" and so it gets stripped off and I begin the WOP regiment.


Pens and stoppers:

I don't do many, but I use the wet dry 220 - 400 - 600 and then micro mesh pads.

Hope this shed a little light on another method.

[Wells Jacobson]

Great question and terrific responses. For many of us who are fairly new to the game, answers like these help put the variety of finishes and techniques in a logical sequence that is sometimes hard to otherwise find. I would love to see additional responses.
Thanks.

[David E Keller]

I tend to jump around a bit on finishes... I suppose I'm hoping to hit on that magic finish that essentially applies itself. No luck so far.

I sand through the grits on the lathe with my starting grit varying from 120 to 220 depending on the condition of the surface. I spend most of my time with the first grit then proceeding fairly quickly though to 400 on most utility pieces. I'll go to 600 on more artsy stuff. I like to wet sand for my final grit, and I generally use walnut oil of utility pieces and BLO on the others. I find that wet sanding give me a better 'feel' to the finished product.

For utility pieces, I generally apply beeswax on the lathe then buff with a clean paper towel... I do the entire finish on the lathe. That's the final step for my utility pieces.

For other pieces, I'll generally apply a coat of super blonde shellac over the oil if I'm using a film finish like lacquer or poly. If I'm using oil as a final finish, I skip the shellac. For film finishes, I generally apply one heavy coat to saturate then wipe off the excess. Then, I follow with multiple thin coats until I get the build I'm after. Lately, I've been playing around with Krylon rattle can matte acrylic spray. It can be recoated almost instantly, and I've buffed within a few hours without any issues. Regardless of the finish chosen, I hand sand after the finish has cured with 1200 or 2000 grit to get rid of the nibs then buff with tripoli and apply ren wax.

For finials, I'll often sand on the lathe to 2000 grit then buff and ren wax. I use a fair bit of African blackwood, and it doesn't need a finish... The rosewoods and many of the Aussie burls do just fine with nothing but a little renaissance wax... Just be careful to keep the wax off of parts that you plan to glue later. DAMHIKT!

[Peter Blair]

Thanks to all of you who took time to fill in the details which I'm certain have helped others besides myself.

Much appreciated!

After printing, re-reading and filing your responses it seems obvious that I should try buffing as well as a bunch of other stuff.

One last question for those of you who buff, or is it two questions?

What speed do you use when buffing with a wheel and what speed do you spin the bowl buff?

Thanks again!

[John Keeton]

Pete, I buff with wheels at about 750. Most buff faster, but at 750 there is little chance of burning the finish. I have bowl buffs, but rarely use them. They need to be spun faster because of the smaller diameter. You also need to be careful about overloading them with compound.

[Peter Blair]

Perfect, thanks John.

[Jamie Donaldson]

I'm one of those turners who doesn't use the Beall buffers or any other, but for glossy pieces just build a lacquer or WOP surface and then allow to throughly dry, sometimes a week or more depending on seasonal conditions. I then hand sand with 3M Trizac pads used in the auto finishing industry, 1000 grit up to 3000, then hand polished with NuFinish car polish. I apply like a French polish, a soft cotton pad made from an old T shirt, and wiped off with a microsoft cloth, and requiring no final wax to enhance the very durable shine.

[Kevin Lucas]

We just had our monthly meeting and this time it was on finishes. A lot used wipe on poly or spray lacquer. One used Walmart spray can acrylic?. The car polish was brought up as a final hand buffing and made a really nice sheen. Some used buffers others did not. Three things that really stuck with me were do not buff shellac it melts and clogs your wheel. Used one kind of finish for a while so you know how it affects different woods. Last instead of a t-shirt try a gauze pad. It's cheap and pretty lint free. Jamie was there maybe his memory is better than mine )

[Justin Stephen]

Off the lathe, and after waiting a couple of days, I begin applying the WOP - usually around 5-6 coats. Then, wet sand with mineral spirits to level the finish, and apply a couple more coats. I do this in the house to avoid contaminating the finish with dust. Then, triple buff with Tripoli, white diamond and Renaissance wax.


John, what do you wet sand with at his step?

Thanks!

[John Keeton]

Justin, mineral spirits as noted. When I wet sand on the lathe prior to finish, I use BLO or a mixture of BLO and WOP depending on the finish desired. If I intend to use lacquer, I will wet sand with mineral spirits.

[Justin Stephen]

Justin, mineral spirits as noted. When I wet sand on the lathe prior to finish, I use BLO or a mixture of BLO and WOP depending on the finish desired. If I intend to use lacquer, I will wet sand with mineral spirits.

Sorry, I meant what grit are you sanding with at that point?