Cored Beech and a Question on Stretch Wrap

[Baxter Smith]

I have been meaning to ask this question for the last month but kept putting it off. I have wrapped several rims on turned thin bowls with stretchwrap to try and prevent cracking around the rim and reduce warping. The bowls were then placed in paper bags to dry. The area where the stretch wrap was placed has resulted in a difference in shade. The wrap was left on until the bowl was dray and sanded. (close to a year for the madrone and about the same for the sycamore). This madrone bowl has been sitting in my dining room(lots of sunlight) for the last couple of months and has not evened out. I doubt it will.
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This Sycamore bowl has been finished about a month and sitting in the light.
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Any thoughts?
This is some beech that I turned thin today. It is pretty wet. To try and avoid the multiple hours of sanding on the dry sycamore bowl, I wet sanded these to 150 with walnut oil. The future sanding should be less tedious! I hope!!
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They are now in bags to dry. I am hesitant to wrap the rims because of the color differences in the past. Any one experienced this?
Thoughts and suggestions are always welcome and appreciated!

[Bernie Weishapl]

Those are some nice looking bowls Baxter. Did you soak them in walnut oil?

[David E Keller]

Man, that's a sweet looking nested set! I've never used the stretch wrap method, so I can't help you there... Maybe Reed will chime in shortly.

[Hayes Rutherford]

I don't think you need to wrap the rims if the drying is well controlled. The last time I dried madrone was very successful. I used plastic bags (individual pieces) and turned it inside out every day or so for about two weeks, then left the pieces in an unused bathroom with very little air circulation. No cracks.

I think your bags will work just fine as long as they are not in a location that is going to have a quick drying effect.

Also wanted to say that I love the look of those bowls and that set should fetch a good price.

[charlie knighton]

nice beech, Baxter, i may have to get some of that walnut oil

on the stretch wrap, i have received blanks that have been stretch wrapped instead of anchor sealed, never have used it myself, especially after turning, maybe experiment when you have a whole tree to turn, not on your burls

[Pete Jordan]

Sweeeet Baxter!

[Dan Forman]

I think that's the first "Beechware" I've seen, and it sure is pretty! I'm not sure if Reed bags them or not, maybe just wraps and lets them dry, which would take less time, and might explain why they don't turn color. Not sure though. I'd PM or email him if you need to know right away.

With the oil on them, I would think that your bowls should dry slowly enough not to cause problems if just bagged, but don't quote me on that either.

Dan

[Bob Wolfe]

Baxter, I've had a similar problem with stretchwrap, plus my bowls molded under the plastic. I'm still trying to find the right method for drying in my climate. It must be a fine line between molding and cracking and I haven't been able to hit on it yet.

[David DeCristoforo]

Great looking set of bowls. Makes me want to try a few...

[Mark Hubl]

No thoughts on the stretch wrap color diff, but that set of bowls is great looking. Will be a wonderful set when done.

[robert baccus]

This brings up the old question--natural or round. both have their arguements. ifyou want round you should consider wqxing and returning--makes power sanding easy and lathe finishing feasible. if you want the natural look you have many options--most of which you have covered. OBTW beech is very unstable in drying and is used in the industry to make small turned things. good luck------------old forester

[Jim Burr]

I know Reed has done this in the past, and may still. See if he pops in on this or send him a note. I guess all the little bowls are sons of a Beech?:eek:

[Kathy Marshall]

That's a beautiful set of nested bowls Baxter! I've been planning to try out my McNaughton system again this weekend, if mine turn out a fraction as nice, I'll be happy!

[Reed Gray]

Well, I have never gotten any color difference from my plastic wrap. I don't put them in bags of any sort, they didn't need them. Just putting them in bags didn't do anything that I could tell, even double and triple bagging. Just the wrap, and on edge on the concrete floor. It might be an oxidation thing, where the part under plastic doesn't oxidize (patina if you want to get fancy). My bowls are about 3/8 inch thick, and dry in 10 to 14 days.

robo hippy

[Jon McElwain]

Looks really nice - as usual! Did you core those with your Oneway system? I think I remember seeing a Oneway coring tool in one of your posts anyway...

[Baxter Smith]

Thanks for the thoughts!

....Did you soak them in walnut oil?
No Bernie. I'm too cheap to use that much Mahoney's!;):) Wiped some on when I was sanding then again when finished. I am sure they could have absorbed more in spots.


I don't think you need to wrap the rims if the drying is well controlled. ....
I think your bags will work just fine as long as they are not in a location that is going to have a quick drying effect.

Also wanted to say that I love the look of those bowls and that set should fetch a good price.
Thanks Hayes. They will be setting on the concrete floor in the unheated part of my shop for the next couple of months. I walled off a section in the back corner under my lumber racks so there is little air movement there. I have no clue what a good price is though!
Have never tried to sell but I suppose I need to look into it with the number of things I have piling up. I have read on here, that 5 or 6$ per inch for a 6 inch bowl up to 100$ for a very nice 12 inch bowl. With the number of bowls you turn out, you must have a market for them and some experience. Assuming they all survive(big assumption)where would one start with something like this. The largest is about 18" then 15" etc. I really have no clue!


...... OBTW beech is very unstable in drying and is used in the industry to make small turned things. good luck------------old forester
Hopefully I will get lucky! I have tried to make sure the grain is as evenly balanced as possible on all these blanks when cutting them out of the tree. I know there is a reason I don't see many people post things made from it!:eek:

Well, I have never gotten any color difference from my plastic wrap. I don't put them in bags of any sort, they didn't need them. Just putting them in bags didn't do anything that I could tell, even double and triple bagging. Just the wrap, and on edge on the concrete floor. It might be an oxidation thing, where the part under plastic doesn't oxidize (patina if you want to get fancy). My bowls are about 3/8 inch thick, and dry in 10 to 14 days.

robo hippy
Thanks Reed. I think you are probably right about the oxidation part. Maybe if I hadn't left it on as long. I know you don't bag yours and I didn't bag the madrone you sent me to start. As soon as I saw that big crack in the largest bowl, I started cussing myself and grabbed the bags. Got to practice stitching anyway.


.... Did you core those with your Oneway system? I think I remember seeing a Oneway coring tool in one of your posts anyway...
You are correct on the Oneway system Jon. Came with the lathe when I bought it. A couple times I have wished I had the McNaughton but the price was right and it is dependable.

[Leo Van Der Loo]

Baxter that is some real nice Beech wood and you turned it into a lovely set, well done :)

About the different coloration, I would expect it to even out, but probably will take a year or better, I had a bowl that I returned after it had sat in my house all finished for probably a year or two, the part I did return was a area of about 1 1/2" or so, it took a long time to get evenly colored again, but it did, now not saying this is exactly the same, but I do expect it to all become equally colored.

What I don't understand is why you would put stretchwrap around the bowl, certainly that plastic hasn't got a snowball change in hell to prevent wood from splitting or twisting, I always understood that the only reason it was used was to keep the paper that was wrapped around the bowl from sliding off, as the paper was not over the bowl past the rim, and by placing it with the open side down the thought was that the bowl would dry mostly from the inside and not split for that reason, however I have never tried it, as I have no problems drying my tried and true drying in closed brown paper bags .

Now whatever works for you is what you should use, though climatic conditions, (that also change during the year) should be kept in mind, I will go to different locations in my house, the shop or cabin depending on the time of year, especially for the initial drying when lots of moisture is lost if the drying is not strictly controlled and slowed down to give the wood time to change shape and to try to keep the moisture gradient in the wood as low as possible, as that is the mayor reason for splitting in wood.

Like wintertime here means quite dry desert-like conditions in the house, while summertime means very humid conditions here with temps in the 30ish for prolonged periods, so I addapt and move from unheated rooms to my drying cabin and for those first critical days to a week or two, I do check the pieces closely, as that is the time when the splitting and checking occurs most.

[Baxter Smith]

...
What I don't understand is why you would put stretchwrap around the bowl, certainly that plastic hasn't got a snowball change in hell to prevent wood from splitting or twisting, I always understood that the only reason it was used was to keep the paper that was wrapped around the bowl from sliding off, as the paper was not over the bowl past the rim, and by placing it with the open side down the thought was that the bowl would dry mostly from the inside and not split for that reason, however I have never tried it, as I have no problems drying my tried and true drying in closed brown paper bags ....

Leo, RoboHippy sent me a piece of Madrone last winter in exchange for some of that Amrosia Maple from my front yard. Since I was using his wood, I went with the drying method he uses with Madrone and for all of his turned thin bowls. My understanding from what he has said, is that the stretch wrap pulled tight around the rim, helps slow moisture loss from that area. I remember seeing little droplets on the inner part of the wrap that extended over and into the open part of the bowl as it was drying. The moisture can only escape from the inside and not from the outer and top edge. Whether it can actually reduce distortion to any degree does seem questionable but he said he has found that to be helpful. I started the Madrone without the bags(like he does) but in they went as soon as one developed a crack. Perhaps it is just more humid where he is.

[Dave Ogren]

I have been using the stretch wrap per Robo Hippy's suggestion for quite a while. Late last summer I was wrapping then bagging in 1 bag and was getting mold and mildew on the majority. Since fall I have been using the sanding sealer on the outside as soon as they are turned and then wrapping with stretch wrap and putting them on a concrete floor. The results so far are no mold and no cracks. If I understand Robo Hippy indicated that if the drying was from the bowl inside that would lessen the cracking. Let me know if I have missed something here.

Thanks,

Dave

[Reed Gray]

It is all theory, and what I picked up from the DNA soakers. I seem to remember the idea was that by wrapping just the outside with newspaper, and covering the rim, that would allow the bowl to dry slightly faster on the inside than the outside, and would 'pull' the outside inwards. To me this translates as 'compression' on the bowl. For sure, the rim is the vulnerable spot, especially if there is a tiny crack that you do not turn out. The wall thickness changes, a lot if you leave the rim square, and less so if you radius the rim, both inside and outside. I would guess that if you have a wide strap that you can wrap around the rim and tighten, the same compression would help the drying. It will not prevent warping, though if you make a doughnut type rim thing that compresses, it will control the oval part of the warping, but not the up and down part. My tests with paper bags did little or next to nothing to prevent cracks. Your local weather/relative humidity plays a huge role here as well, and you will have to fine tune your drying in summer and winter, and according to where you are. It is an art. There is a big difference in wall thickness as well. I turn to about 1/4 to 1/2 inch max, and let them dry. That is a huge difference compared to the 10% thickness rule, and can change all the other rules as well. It isn't an exact science. Here in Western Oregon, it is pretty humid most of the time. In the summer, day time temps to maybe 90 degrees, and 50% or so humidity, then at night, temps down in the 50s and humidity to nearly 100%. If you have a wine cellar like Mike Mahoney does, that will give you a pretty constant temp and humidity, and would make controlling the drying process more consistent. Having air conditioning, and or heating changes all those factors again. I would expect that if you are in hot and humid areas, the bagging could make molding a problem.

The only certain drying rule I know of is, "Dry it too fast, you get cracks. Dry it too slow, you get mold."

robo hippy