Sharpening table saw blades

[Pat Barry]

What does it take to sharpen table saw blades in your shop? Are there some simple jigs or tools to accomplish this? What if you wanted to do this - what would it cost to get started? Does anyone have experience?

[John McClanahan]

For expensive blades I would send them to an expert. For run of the mill blades, Harbor Freight sells a saw blade sharpener for $49.95 that doesn't do too bad. You have to set it up by eye, as there are few setup marks. I have one, and I would say it has paid for itself.

[Bruce Wrenn]

Half a million dollar Walter's Five axis grinder and about ten years of experience will get the job done. Oh yeah, you will need three phase power. For what Dynamic saw (dynamicsaw.com) does my blades, I couldn't even think about sharpening a blade unless it's a hand saw.

[Pat Barry]

Thanks for the tip. I also see another one that might be a bit more expensive from Universal Sharpener. Anyone have experience with that unit?

I see that the Universal Sharpener costs about $1800. Thats a lot less than half a million but slightly out of budget. Maybe the Harbor Freight unit??

[Phil Thien]

I think the HF unit is worthless. The "cup" that came with mine is nothing more than a rather aggressive diamond blade you might use to cut tile.

[Van Huskey]

Half a million dollar Walter's Five axis grinder and about ten years of experience will get the job done. Oh yeah, you will need three phase power. For what Dynamic saw (dynamicsaw.com) does my blades, I couldn't even think about sharpening a blade unless it's a hand saw.

+1

I understand the idea of saving money but I don't think one can. I bet doing it "at home" would cut the number of sharpenings in half. I am all for DIY stuff but if you spend a little time educating yourself about the complex shapes of modern saw teeth and how small changes in those shapes drastically change the efficacy of the blade having it professionally done makes more and more sense. If it is designed as an exercise in learning more about saw tooth geometry that is a whole different story, but if it is an attempt and "gaming the system" and saving money, I don't think it is gonna happen.

[Pat Barry]

It can't be all that complicated to do this for ordinary saw blades can it? I found a video on-line of a guy doing it who claimed he had 30 years experience and he didn't have any computerized equipment, just a couple dedicated grinding setups. What am I missing? Now, I should add, I'm not a professional woodworker with a large shop, just a weekend warrior with a bunch of saw blades needing a tune-up.

[Van Huskey]

It can't be all that complicated to do this for ordinary saw blades can it? .


Modern saw blade's tip geometry has gotten VERY complex and requires VERY tight tolerances in sharpening to retain the quality of cut we initially pay for. Again if it is just a learning experince then go for it, if you want blades that cut well, like they did when new, just pay a company with MILLIONS of dollars of equipment to do the job correctly. Some of the equipment to sharpen modern blades correctly: http://www.cookssharpening.com/id3.html BTW that web site has a coupon for a free sharpening.


An analogy is car tire balancing, the guy that was the best in the world 30 years ago with a passive balancing machine couldn't get close to what someone can do with a few month training and a Hunter Road Force 9700, I pick my tire stores partially by the machines they use, a blade sharpener should be picked the same way.

[John McClanahan]

Somewhere between "simple jigs and tools" and an $1800 sharpener, I got lost. :confused::eek:

[Jeff Duncan]

Make sure your comparing apples to apples! Back in the day blades were made out of HSS, which is much easier to grind, and depending on the type of blade probably had fairly simple grinds. Newer blades are usually carbide tipped, much, much harder to grind, requires special wheels to do it, and is also probably not a good dust to be breathing.

Take a close look at a newer good quality carbide blade and you'll see many different angles. There's a grind angle for the bottom of the tooth. Another angle for the top of the tooth, and depending on the blade possibly 3 different angles for the top of the tooth. Then there's the sides of the teeth. So at a minimum 3 different grinding setups for a single blade, and possibly many more again depending on the type of blade. Then of course there's the ability to very precisely set the grinding wheel to the tooth each and every time and possibly have to account for the small amount of wear the grinding wheel. Repeatable precision like this is going to be tough to accomplish without a significant outlay of money and time.....ie probably not a harbor freight type of thing;)

So compare that to taking a blade to the local outfit that charges say $15 or so....it's probably a goose chase. Unless your blades are all HSS which could be a different story.

good luck,
JeffD

[Neil Brooks]

My first thought is ... if you decide to play the home game ... talk to a local framer or two who has blades that they're DONE with, and might otherwise throw away.

Practice on something that doesn't matter, if you trash it ;)

[Tom Walz]

A pro shop will also check for flatness and replace teeth as well as correct tension issues.

Tom

[shane lyall]

I bought one of those from HF a year or so ago just to try it out between projects. It did ok on some 7.5 HSS baldes and an old plate joiner blade. I think I may have tried it on an old miter saw blade as well IIRC. I played with it a time or two and put it away.

Think about it this way, one wrong grind could destroy a $100+ blade. I send mine out.

[Van Huskey]

A pro shop will also check for flatness and replace teeth as well as correct tension issues.

Tom

Tom, I can only assume you didn't have much time to post. I expected you to wax poetic about the complexities of sharpening cabide TS blades...

[glenn bradley]

Modern saw blade's tip geometry has gotten VERY complex and requires VERY tight tolerances in sharpening to retain the quality of cut we initially pay for.

I can't agree with this enough. Anyone who has had an average sharpening job and then had a good one can testify to the impact that an improper geometry can bring to a cutter's performance.

[Pat Barry]

I appreciate everyone's feedback but I don't own a $100 blade so I'm not too worried about trashing something valuable. I just want to get some additional life out of some old blades.

[Van Huskey]

Let me suggest buying a high quality combo blade with the money would have spent on sharpening supplies, something like a Forrest WWII, Freud Fusion, Infinity Super General or Tenryu Gold Medal. I think they will change your view of table saw blades forever.

[Bruce Wrenn]

Let me suggest buying a high quality combo blade with the money would have spent on sharpening supplies, something like a Forrest WWII, Freud Fusion, Infinity Super General or Tenryu Gold Medal. I think they will change your view of table saw blades forever.Add the Delta 35-7657 for $17 and shipping from Cripe Distributing. It's my everything blade. (I do own two Forest WWII's, one of which has never been on a saw.)

[Pat Barry]

OK - I have an Oldham Industrial 60 tooth 10" carbide blade for my miter saw and a Freud industrial combo rip cross-cut thin kerf carbide blade for my table saw. I don't recall but suspect I paid about $30 ea for these a few years ago. I do moderate amounts of work cutting lots of materials (mostly pine it seems, with hardwood plywood, and red oak, and a little bit of cherry and walnut). Both blades worked great at first but now they tear out significantly and burn a bit. I have tried cleaning them numerous times to remove the pitch from the pine. I am ready to buy a new blade or two and was thinking I could tune them up. Maybe these aren't worth fooling with. What do you guys think?

[Van Huskey]

I am not as familiar with the Oldham but the Freud is an excellent blade. Off hand is that the LU88. In any event send them out to be sharpened and they will be back good as new, there have been a couple of threads on sharpeners lately and I posted the link to Cook who will give you one free. The key with pine is the pitch, it builds up and causes heat, heat kills blades. Clean them OFTEN and they will last much longer.

[Phil Thien]

I don't think there is any magic to blade sharpening. The basic HF unit would work for face grinding, if it weren't for the inferior "cup" (again, just a diamond tile blade) it is supplied with.

[John M Wilson]

Here's another recommendation for Dynamic Saw -- after very gingerly getting "my feet wet" with them, I was so impressed I sent nearly every blade I had to them to be sharpened (this included some real low-budget cheapo blades, too). "Better than new" doesn't do justice to what I got back -- some of the best bucks I've spent in a while.

I'm not at all affiliated with the company -- just a very happy customer.

[Van Huskey]

Phil, I agree there is ZERO magic involved in sharpening a TS blade but do you think anything sold at a decent "hobby" price is going to sharpen even a relatively simple ATB blade to a high degree of precision with 60 alternating bevels on a single blade? High quality CNC based sharpening is cheap and excellent, I think one of the best bargains we have in woodworking.

[Phil Thien]

Phil, I agree there is ZERO magic involved in sharpening a TS blade but do you think anything sold at a decent "hobby" price is going to sharpen even a relatively simple ATB blade to a high degree of precision with 60 alternating bevels on a single blade? High quality CNC based sharpening is cheap and excellent, I think one of the best bargains we have in woodworking.

Not arguing with you. I guess my point is, with a decent cup, that HF unit seems like it would work pretty darn good.

But you're right, top-notch sharpening is nearly given away.

Furthermore, I have received (as gifts from family and friends) more blades than I'll probably be able to use in 10+ years. So I'm in no hurry to get blades sharpened.

[Jeff Duncan]

It sounds like your not doing much volume, like maybe need to sharpen your blades every couple years?? I just don't see any advantage to trying to sharpen them yourself. Have them sharpened for short money and your back in business for a couple years. If you go buying a machine to sharpen them and then go through the learning curve of how to use it and the results aren't that great, or worse, you'll have wasted time and money and may have to buy a new blade or bring them to a sharpener anyway. I just can't see a way where trying to do them yourself is going to be practical?

good luck,
jeffD

[Tom Walz]

Van Husky,

Short of time and sort of mind boggled by the complexity of the issue. Of course, I spent a couple years figuring out allowable particle sizes in grinding coolant used to sharpen saw blades so I get kind of deep into it.

Philosophically I think he should try sharpening his own blades. I don't do any sharpening professionally because it is way too complicated. I do like sitting by a campfire and putting an edge on my axe. Besides, America used to be a land of tinkerers where guys were always screwing around with something. I think that is a good tradition.

If you are going to sharpen your own blades, be really careful of creating too much heat. You can severely crack the carbide. Attached is a photo of a tip on a factory new saw from a company often rated as #1 here. This company really is very good but sharpening is very complex and they burnt some tips to the point where they are dangerous.

Tom

219570

[Matthew Sherman]

Half a million dollar Walter's Five axis grinder and about ten years of experience will get the job done. Oh yeah, you will need three phase power. For what Dynamic saw (dynamicsaw.com) does my blades, I couldn't even think about sharpening a blade unless it's a hand saw.

Thanks for linking that place. I was browsing their prices and they are very reasonable. When I need mine sharpened I am trying them out.

[Ole Anderson]

I just had a couple of Freud blades sharpened by dropping them off at a large local tool store where they send them out. I have no idea of the type of equipment they use, but I doubt it is 5 axis CNC grinders. They come back sharp, but it looks like they don't side grind the teeth. And if they did, wouldn't the tooth width start getting narrower and narrower? So you start with a full 1/8" blade and before long you are using a thin kerf.

[Pat Barry]

OK - After careful consideration of the input I have received I have decided to send my blades out for sharpening. There is a local company in Minnesota, name Eide Saw and Tool service. Has anyone here had experience working with them? I have requested info from them on-line and am waiting for a response.

[Jim Andrew]

I bought the HF sharpener to sharpen some steel blades I use for cutting up stickers. They just sharpen the face of the tooth. As for my carbide blades, when they get dirty I just clean them, and they cut like new.