Putting a camber on sharp planes already in use

[Mike Kelsey]

I've been using my WC V3 jack, #4 smoother & killer LN #8 to build my first moxon vise. Since all hand wood working is fairly new to me & I wanted to use water-stones I first practiced with a cheap Buck Bros plane to get the technique down, using the Veritas MK II honing guide. I honed straight across. All the planes cut really well (even the Buck), but I do notice edge marks.
So I figure I need to "round" the blade edges. A Chris Schwartz video says to go to the grinder with the blade back 90 degrees to the wheel & rotate the blade edge back & forth to your marked radius curve. If I do that I'm back to square one. Are there other techniques to add the camber such as using the "sign of the X" technique using 220 sand paper. Or is grinding simply the most efficient way to go?

BTW I have a Grizzly slow speed wet grinder as well as the WS3000. Just haven't used them, deciding to start out with a hand method.

[Derek Cohen]

Hi Mike

The only cambers one uses the grinder to create is on jack or scrub planes. These are quite strong curves. For a smoother or jointer one wants a subtle curve, and the only place to do this is on a waterstone (or equivalent).

David Charlesworth has a good procedure for a fine camber, which I term "cambering by numbers". Simply, adding the same number of strokes on each side of the blade to create a camber. Below is a link to a pictorial. Note that this is about BU blades, but the process is exactly the same for BD blades (and, indeed, the picture of the blade on the honing guide is a BD blade). About 2/3 along ...

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/WoodworkTechniques/TheSecretToCamberinBUPlaneBlades.html

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Russell Sansom]

Depending on the task, it doesn't take much camber to make a plane perform at its best. A conscious effort to work the far left and right of the leading edge is almost all you need for a very subtle arc. Your LN #8 will become a completely new machine. I generally use the Tormek to create a square hollow, then work the sides a little more than the middle on the water stones. As an indicator of success, more of the hollow will be used up at the edges than in the center.

[Matthew Hills]

The Veritas Mk II honing guide doesn't lend itself real well to getting a pronounced camber. The stock roller keeps things pretty stable. If you focus on trying to hone the corner, you will slightly relieve it, but you won't get much of a camber. This means that the feathering on the edges will be relatively modest -- you can get a good smoothing cut, but you won't be able to get a heavier cut without leaving tracks.

Veritas also has a cambered roller that I don't have any experience with.

The eclipse-style jigs have less stability due to the thin center roller. This affords the user more control over the result.

Matt

[Derek Cohen]

Hi Matt

The Veritas honing guide is perfect for honing cambers ... with the camber roller. The straight wheels are only good for straight edges.

HOWEVER ....

If you go to the following link, near the end is a method of honing scrub-like cambers on the flat roller version.

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/WoodworkTechniques/Advanced%20Angles%20on%20the%20Lee%20Valley%20Honi ng%20Guide%20Mk%20II.html

The way to do this is to use the honing guide upsidedown! Yes, you read that right. I developed this method before the camber rollers were in production.

Have fun!

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Gary Viggers]

Hi Mike

The only cambers one uses the grinder to create is on jack or scrub planes. These are quite strong curves. For a smoother or jointer one wants a subtle curve, and the only place to do this is on a waterstone (or equivalent).


I would like to make one of my extra 2" irons a highly cambered (curved) blade for my No. 5. It currently has the factory bevel. Is regrinding it on a low speed grinder the best way to this? Can I then hone it business as usual on stones? Will I still be able to hit the edge of the iron evenly all the way across? I use an Eclipse-style jig.

Speaking of Eclipse-style jigs, is there any difference in quality between a name brand one, like the Robert Larsen, one from LN, or a no name cheapie like at Rockler?

[Mike Kelsey]

Derek,

I just recalled I do have the Veritas camber roller. I bought the complete system when I was just starting my hand-tool venture & didn't quite understand it's use.

Anyway, if I take, say, my jack plane blade which has a 30 degree secondary bevel on & start on the 1000 grit at the secondary bevel setting, using the camber roller, applying pressure from one side to the other as I move along the stone will a measurable (useful) camber develop? Or should I reset the honing guide for the primary bevel & start out with 220 grit sand paper?

From what reading I've done on the subject of cambers I'm not sure why the jack needs a more definitive radius than the other planes, since some woodworkers don't use any camber at all.

BTW I have a LN scrub plane (a CL find) & I understand the need for short radius camber as it "digs" out the wood.

Thanks,

Mike



Hi Matt

The Veritas honing guide is perfect for honing cambers ... with the camber roller. The straight wheels are only good for straight edges.

HOWEVER ....

If you go to the following link, near the end is a method of honing scrub-like cambers on the flat roller version.

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/WoodworkTechniques/Advanced Angles on the Lee Valley Honing Guide Mk II.html (http://www.inthewoodshop.com/WoodworkTechniques/Advanced%20Angles%20on%20the%20Lee%20Valley%20Honi ng%20Guide%20Mk%20II.html)

The way to do this is to use the honing guide upsidedown! Yes, you read that right. I developed this method before the camber rollers were in production.

Have fun!

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Jim Koepke]

Mike,

I am one of those wood workers that doesn't purposely camber blades.

I have thought about it at times, but haven't really found much need. I am starting to get a bit more rough wood and may camber a blade for one of my #5 or 5-1/4 planes.

Here is a post of mine on a different way that works. It was discovered by accident while trying to flatten the backs of some old blades.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?158373

Remember, everyone has different milage.

jtk

[Mike Kelsey]

Thanks for the info link Jim. My thinking on the subject follows what you said there.....

[Joe Leigh]

The confusing part of most of these hand plane camber threads is the intended use of the OP. Are we talking about producing a radius on a straight blade as a scrub plane would have, or are we talking about simply easing the edges of a straight blade slightly to prevent track marks?? Two different worlds..

[Jim Matthews]

I would take Derek's advice seriously, his suggestions have worked for me, thus far.

That said, I take little interest in using powered grinders in my shop.
To save time in cambering a blade, I use a file to shape the profile of the blade.

Two passes with a 1" wide medium single-cut file on each edge, working from back to front (down the bevel, with the stroke pointing in the same direction as the blade) is enough to get started.
I use the Kell honing guide, and it offers some flexibility in mounting the steel to be sharpened. Deeper camber requires more passes from the file.

I then layout some heavier sandpaper on a granite substrate (cut out from a sink countertop) and grind with only the outer third of the blade in contact with the paper.
A couple passes on one of the sides, then the same on the opposite third. I aim for two little "triangles" in each corner with the same scratch pattern.
I don't grind the center of the blade until I see the triangles.

I proceed to a slightly finer grit, and grind the entire edge, taking pains to press harder on the outside thirds of the blade - 2 left, 1 center, 2 right.
I think of it as a slow "roll" back and forth across the blade. This should follow the shape filed in the blade.
I'm looking for an even curve across the edge.

These two steps must be done without adjusting the guide, for a consistent pitch. I stop when I establish a wire edge, when I can't see a reflection.
With the tool steel I use, it's less than ten minutes, and there's no grinding wheel involved.

I hone with Shapton stones, following the Charlesworth method mentioned.



Jim
Westport, MA

[Derek Cohen]

Mike,

I am one of those wood workers that doesn't purposely camber blades.

I have thought about it at times, but haven't really found much need. I am starting to get a bit more rough wood and may camber a blade for one of my #5 or 5-1/4 planes.

Here is a post of mine on a different way that works. It was discovered by accident while trying to flatten the backs of some old blades.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?158373

Remember, everyone has different milage.

jtk

Hi Jim

We are following two different processes.

You mention (in your link) clipping the corners of a #5 to prevent track marks. In other words, you are using your #5 as a smoother.

What I, and I assume Jack, are focussed on is using the #5 as a jack or fore plane ... to remove a lot of waste .. and quickly. Not quite a scrub, but a great nearly so.

To do this a 8" radius is required on the 2" wide blade (for comparison, a scrub plane has a 3" radius on a 1 1/2" wide blade). This needs first to be ground, and then beveled and honed.

Regards from Perth

Derek