Shoulder plane, edge trimming plane and rabbeting plane

[Matthew N. Masail]

So I got access to Rob Cosman's hand tool workshop when I bought a Woodriver no.3 smoothing plane. I got this one to make sure I have a working plane in case the wooden ones didn't work out for me.
from watching the video I realized I'm going to need a Shoulder plane - which one would you pick? so far I'm leaning towards this one http://www.axminster.co.uk/veritas-veritas-medium-shoulder-plane-prod724701/ because of the side set screws. the LN are the same price though.

It also seems to me that an edge trimming plane would be real nice, which one would you pick out of these two, if you think one to be worth having at all?
http://www.axminster.co.uk/lie-nielsen-lie-nielsen-no-95-bronze-edge-plane-prod20369/
http://www.axminster.co.uk/veritas-veritas-iron-edge-trimming-plane-prod724910/
does anyone know if the LN blade needs lateral adjustment or is it inset square?

Rob mentions this http://www.lie-nielsen.com/catalog.php?sku=140 on the essential tool list, how important is a rabbeting plane such as this?

if there is any special plane needed for most furniture work please advise, I don't have thw pleasure of ordering as I need because all my plane shopping is international.

[Chris Griggs]

Ok, Rob Cosman surely knows a heck of a lot more then I do, but I don't consider any of those essential planes.

The shoulder plane I'd say is the most essential of the 3 you linked to but one can make a case that it doesn't do anything that you can't learn to do with chisels. My shoulder plane is very small, but if you're looking for versatility I'd think that the LV large would be better then the medium.

The edge trimming plane won't do anything that you can't do with a standard bench plane and a shooting board, so I'd skip it entirely for now. If you're just starting out that money would be probably be better spent elsewhere.

A fenced rabbeting plane is an essential tool for me, and if you want to cut rabbets you'd probably be better of getting the Lee Valley skew rabbet (http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/page.aspx?p=59999&cat=1,41182,41192&ap=1) over the LN you linked to. You can use a skew block to do the same task and it's probably more versatile, but I wouldn't call it an essential tool. Also, if you are so inclined, with a little practice you could could use the large shoulder plane (no fence) to cut rabbets by just opening up the mouth and deepening the cut.

If you are cutting joinery by hand (as opposed to tweaking machine cut joinery) I'd also say consider a router plane and/or a plow plane. To me those are much more important than any of the planes you listed. Just my one cent. (my opinion isn't worth 2). Best of luck to you. Let us know what you decide!

[Matthew N. Masail]

Hi Chris, your opinion is of more than 2 cents to me! but it's still hard to decide without much experience. I want to do as much as I can by hand with exception of ripping and such. I bought the small LV router plane. do you use both skews or is a right handed one enough? I guess I could always use a router and a fence to cut rabbets right? is a plow plane good for anything but drawer bottoms? I'm having a hard time deciding exactly where to put my money.. I bought some Japanese saws for dovetails and such, a bunch of rasps and files, a low angle block and some blades to fill up the plane set with woodies and some good hand forged chisels. a 220/800/4000 set of water stones and I got the MK II honing guide plus accessories just in case. all this will arrive in about a month.
also a lot is going into a nice ACM bandsaw. when I think about it any recommendation about any tool is welcome with me! I don't want to get stuck needing a certain joinery plane and not have it. a jointer/planer combo is no option at the moment money wise, I'm going to have to do that by hand, and I'm counting on building a good jointer and a good scrub plane. (-: man I love woodworking.

[Matthew N. Masail]

how about these two

http://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-axminster-duplex-rebate-plane-prod459473/

http://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-axminster-no-19-(92)-shoulder-plane-prod816488/

My title should have been "help me shop!" (-:

P.S
I know they look good enough... but then again someone who knows might be able to tell me why it's not worth the saving.

[Chris Griggs]

A plow plane can cut rabbets, but a dedicated rabbet plane does it better and with a bit more flexibility. Also, a large router plane with a fence can fill in quite well for a plow when it comes to cutting 1/4 and 1/8 grooves in face grain. It's not as fast as a dedicated plow, but I got by without a plow for quite some time by using my router plane. I never had much luck cutting rabbets with my router plane but where there's a will there's a way. Folks here are probably getting sick of me pining away about my love of router planes, but I think they are a great specialty plane to get early on. I don't know anything about those other two planes you linked to, but when it comes to specialty planes make sure you know what your getting - they are more complex and, to me, seem a lot harder to tune up then a sub par or vintage bench plane. Just thinking out loud here, in terms of maximum versatility for getting started I'd think a large shoulder plane (http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/page.aspx?p=50273&cat=1,41182,68490) (I don't have one) and a large fenced router (I love my LV) (http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/page.aspx?p=52609&cat=1,41182,48945) would enable you to do the most. Still a chunk of cash, but less expensive then buying a plow and and skew rabbet. They won't be ideal for a number of the tasks you use them for, but they allow you to get done what you need to get done. The router can cut grooves (though a plow would be better) and dados and also do a number of other tuning tasks. The shoulder in addition to doing end grain shoulders can also do rabbets as large as you would ever need. At some point you'll still probably want to get a plow and fenced rabbet plane, but until then I think you'd at least be able to accomplish what you need to without a lot of trouble.

[Chris Griggs]

do you use both skews or is a right handed one enough?

I just have the right-handed. Having both would be nice but for most people it would probably be more of a luxury. It's certainly not a necessity in most cases.

[Kent A Bathurst]

I have two block planes - the LN rabbet block [not the skew] and the tried-and-true LN 60-1/2 low-angle adjustable mouth. If for some reason, I could have only one of those two, it would be the rabbet block, hands down.

I also have the large LN shoulder plane. Knowing what I know now, I would have preferred the medium - a better all around size, and I have never really needed the extra size the large provides. The LV plane gets very good reviews, from what I have read here. My shoulder plane does not get used as much as other planes, but no other plane does what it can do......It's mostly a question of how much time do you spend on tenons. The more you hand-cut tenons, the more valuable the shoulder plane - in my opinion. And it works like a charm..........Harry Potter type of "charm"....to true up or slightly shave down shoulders.

[Mike Allen1010]

If you do many Mortice and tenon joints, I would highly recommend getting a shoulder plane. They are ideal for trimming the shoulders of tenons to to get a nice tight fit around the periphery of the joint which is typically visible.

That said, I would recommend getting a "large" (typically blade width 1 1/4 inches) for two reasons; the extra mass of the playing is really helpful in triming the end grain of shoulders and also the extra width of the blade makes it ideal for trimming tenons themselves and allows you to sneak up on a perfect fit of the tenon into the Mortice.

I have a LV medium shoulder plane which is an excellent tool, for the reasons I've mentioned above and I use it all the time. However I'm planning to get a large shoulder plane (hoping to pick up a used Record 73 to save a few $, vs. a new LV or Lie Nielsen).

I recently completed legs and stretchers for a Ruobo style workbench that had large 4 inch wide by 4 inch long tenons and the large would have been ideal. I had to make do with pairing chisels etc., but I do think for hand cut M&T joints the large shoulder plan is essential.

Just my two cents. All the best,
Mike

[Matthew N. Masail]

Thanks everyone. I think I'm going to get the two cheaper one's I linked to above.... then, if I need it, I'll invest in a LN/LV shoulder plane.