Chris Griggs
01-11-2012, 2:47 PM
I just wrapped up doing a bit of refilling on a 16” 12ppi Disston backsaw. Recently, there’s been a small amount of discussion about the combo/hybrid filed Gramercy Sash and the Bad Axes, as well as combo filing in general. FWIW, this post will present you with NO new information. It is nothing that hasn't been said or done before, but I thought I'd share my experience nonetheless.
First let me say, I’m often not a fan of multi-function tools, as they tend to do a few things pretty well, but nothing exceptionally well. However, with backsaws, hybrid filing interests me for a couple reasons. The first being that I have limited space, both on and around my workbench, so even one extra saw that is out on the bench can get in the way. The second being that small toothed saws (around 12ppi or higher), even when filed with no fleam, are pretty easy to crosscut with compared to larger toothed panel/hand saws, so tweaking them to do double duty seemed quite plausible.
Anyway, long story short. I got so intrigued with combo filing on the Gramercy saw, that I decided to file a nearly identical geometry into my 16” 12ppi Disston. That is, I filed it with about 5 degrees of rake and around 7.5 degrees of fleam. Wow! Mr. Moskowitz is onto something. I have questioned several times on this forum the practicality of the combo filed saw he sells, and after filing a saw with that same geometry, I am here to say that my doubts have been permanently put to rest.
There seems to be some magic place (on fine toothed saws) in between 5 and 10 degrees of fleam, where one gets:
1) A saw that rips extremely smoothly, with little to no noticeable loss of speed and…
2) a saw that crosscuts probably 95%, as smoothly and quickly as one filed with a more standard 20 degrees of fleam.
I really like this filing, and can honestly say that the saw rips as well as any rip saw I’ve used (not that I've used that many) and what it gives up in cross cutting (compared to my dedicated LN 14” xcut) is negligible.
As one would expect for ripping, this filing works particularly well in harder woods. When I used it in white oak it immediately became apparent to me why many people will add 2-5 degrees of fleam to saws that they plan to use as dedicated hardwood rippers. The fleam REALLY smooths out the cutting action, to the point where it actually felt like the fleam was making it rip faster in the oak. This also seemed to carry through in more moderate hardwoods (walnut and cherry). In softer wood (poplar) the fleam did make the saw feel ever so slightly less aggressive (no surprise there), but again I didn’t notice any dramatic decrease in speed, it just kind of felt less aggressive.
Similarly for crosscutting hardwoods, it seemed to cut just as nicely as my dedicated xcut. The resulting surface it leaves is every bit as smooth. The only time I noticed any loss of performance (compared to the LN xcut) was in the softer poplar, where it felt a little sluggish and may have left a little bit more splintering on the bottom/exit face of the board (I'll need to do more testing/comparing to say for sure though)
I hope folks find this information helpful. Based on this experience, I would say to anyone who has been on the fence about purchasing or filing there own a combo/hybrid to give it go. If I can get a saw to function so well as both a rip and xcut, then surely Mr. Harrel and Mr. Mowskowitz, who actually know what they're doing, must be offering something pretty fantastic.
I think you'll be pleasantly surprised how well a saw can be made to both rip and xcut - I know I was!
Cheers!
Chris
First let me say, I’m often not a fan of multi-function tools, as they tend to do a few things pretty well, but nothing exceptionally well. However, with backsaws, hybrid filing interests me for a couple reasons. The first being that I have limited space, both on and around my workbench, so even one extra saw that is out on the bench can get in the way. The second being that small toothed saws (around 12ppi or higher), even when filed with no fleam, are pretty easy to crosscut with compared to larger toothed panel/hand saws, so tweaking them to do double duty seemed quite plausible.
Anyway, long story short. I got so intrigued with combo filing on the Gramercy saw, that I decided to file a nearly identical geometry into my 16” 12ppi Disston. That is, I filed it with about 5 degrees of rake and around 7.5 degrees of fleam. Wow! Mr. Moskowitz is onto something. I have questioned several times on this forum the practicality of the combo filed saw he sells, and after filing a saw with that same geometry, I am here to say that my doubts have been permanently put to rest.
There seems to be some magic place (on fine toothed saws) in between 5 and 10 degrees of fleam, where one gets:
1) A saw that rips extremely smoothly, with little to no noticeable loss of speed and…
2) a saw that crosscuts probably 95%, as smoothly and quickly as one filed with a more standard 20 degrees of fleam.
I really like this filing, and can honestly say that the saw rips as well as any rip saw I’ve used (not that I've used that many) and what it gives up in cross cutting (compared to my dedicated LN 14” xcut) is negligible.
As one would expect for ripping, this filing works particularly well in harder woods. When I used it in white oak it immediately became apparent to me why many people will add 2-5 degrees of fleam to saws that they plan to use as dedicated hardwood rippers. The fleam REALLY smooths out the cutting action, to the point where it actually felt like the fleam was making it rip faster in the oak. This also seemed to carry through in more moderate hardwoods (walnut and cherry). In softer wood (poplar) the fleam did make the saw feel ever so slightly less aggressive (no surprise there), but again I didn’t notice any dramatic decrease in speed, it just kind of felt less aggressive.
Similarly for crosscutting hardwoods, it seemed to cut just as nicely as my dedicated xcut. The resulting surface it leaves is every bit as smooth. The only time I noticed any loss of performance (compared to the LN xcut) was in the softer poplar, where it felt a little sluggish and may have left a little bit more splintering on the bottom/exit face of the board (I'll need to do more testing/comparing to say for sure though)
I hope folks find this information helpful. Based on this experience, I would say to anyone who has been on the fence about purchasing or filing there own a combo/hybrid to give it go. If I can get a saw to function so well as both a rip and xcut, then surely Mr. Harrel and Mr. Mowskowitz, who actually know what they're doing, must be offering something pretty fantastic.
I think you'll be pleasantly surprised how well a saw can be made to both rip and xcut - I know I was!
Cheers!
Chris