Just sounding out this idea...

[Jerome Hanby]

I've been thinking about trying to build a set of hollows and rounds. I've run across several cases where I've seen the statement that the easiest way to build a set is to already have a set. Think that there might be enough interest in getting a group together to buy a set from LV and start shipping them around for this purpose. Seems like a matched pair would work for building that pair yourself then pass them along to the next guy. That should let nine folks at a time be working on planes. This a dumb idea? Guess if you could get enough folks involved you could go with that expensive set that the Shwarz likes.

Okay, I misremembered, the set is for 12, so six folks at once could be working on a set...

[David Weaver]

What if they don't have the radius that you want?

[Jerome Hanby]

What if they don't have the radius that you want?

That would definitely be an issue. I'm thinking that you would work around the sizes that you have. Of course that doesn't help at all if you are trying to reproduce a particular profile...

Maybe I'm missing something basic here. Is there some "easy" way to establish the hollow and round faces? I can copy with grinding the cutters, but getting a consistent face all along a 9 inch or so length sounds tough.

[Jim Koepke]

Maybe I'm missing something basic here. Is there some "easy" way to establish the hollow and round faces? I can copy with grinding the cutters, but getting a consistent face all along a 9 inch or so length sounds tough.

A few ways to do this come to mind. A scratch stock would be one way. Once you have a single hollow or round the mating plane could be made from it.

Another way might be to use a plane like a Stanley 45 to cut the profile of one plane and then use that to make the mate.

jtk

[David Weaver]

Well, the process larry uses in the video works well, you just have to take good care to mark the circles identically on both ends of the plane. If they're not marked exactly, then the bottom of the plane won't be the same along its length.

I find getting the marking exact on each end to be harder than executing cutting to the marks accurately (bearing in mind that cutting the hollow is just a little bit of plow plane work and then a lot of sanding back and forth with the two planes once you get the bottom of the round mostly cut accurately).

I have a pair that i'm redoing from my first pair, and I haven't made any in a while, maybe i'm remembering it incorrectly. I think for this pair, I might cut the sole on the round on a jointer plane holding the round instead of the jointer plane, because it'll be easier to keep the angle constant on the round as passes are made (it's tall and narrow).

[Tony Shea]

That;s not a terrible idea Jerome. But as David pointed out, it is not absolutely neccessary to have the mating hollow or round to make your attempt. Marking the correct radius on each end is def important. Then being able to get consistant facets along the round with a #5 or larger plane with a straight iron is the key. Eventually these facets will be very slight and can be sanded out with little effort. But all the while paying very close attention to your marks on the ends and checking with a straight edge that the shape is all along the same plane.

The biggest tip I can offer you is to buy Larry Williams DVD on Making Traditional Side Espapement Planes.

[Jerome Hanby]

That;s not a terrible idea Jerome. But as David pointed out, it is not absolutely neccessary to have the mating hollow or round to make your attempt. Marking the correct radius on each end is def important. Then being able to get consistant facets along the round with a #5 or larger plane with a straight iron is the key. Eventually these facets will be very slight and can be sanded out with little effort. But all the while paying very close attention to your marks on the ends and checking with a straight edge that the shape is all along the same plane.

The biggest tip I can offer you is to buy Larry Williams DVD on Making Traditional Side Espapement Planes.

I'm ordering that on payday (and trying to keep my blinders on so that LN doesn't get any more of my money this time around). So (and I'm sure this is clear in the video, but...), I'm thinking you make the round first because it can be roughed out with all (for lack of a better term) exterior cuts so that you end up with what looks like a multifaceted dowel (or at least part of the arc of the dowel). then, you smooth that out as best you can, grind, sharpen, and mount the blade, and finally use the the newly produced round to make the corresponding hollow. At that point I guess you can use that new hollow to build a better round then start over with the next size.

I guess if you grind and sharpen your pair of blades first thing, then they can be used like scrappers to help true the soles?

[Jim Koepke]

At that point I guess you can use that new hollow to build a better round then start over with the next size.

Or just use the new hollow to improve the original round.

jtk

[David Weaver]

I'm ordering that on payday (and trying to keep my blinders on so that LN doesn't get any more of my money this time around). So (and I'm sure this is clear in the video, but...), I'm thinking you make the round first because it can be roughed out with all (for lack of a better term) exterior cuts so that you end up with what looks like a multifaceted dowel (or at least part of the arc of the dowel). then, you smooth that out as best you can, grind, sharpen, and mount the blade, and finally use the the newly produced round to make the corresponding hollow. At that point I guess you can use that new hollow to build a better round then start over with the next size.

I guess if you grind and sharpen your pair of blades first thing, then they can be used like scrappers to help true the soles?

Yeah, I'd just save the whole plane until you watch Larry's video, unless it's too late for that.

Otherwise, yes, round first, plow the hollow down the middle and use the round to make the hollow, and then back and forth. I can't remember exactly what was in the video but it's something along those lines.

You'll like the video, best video on any topic that I've seen, and Larry doesn't even come across as a curmudgeon in it (inside joke for the wood central folks).

[Jerome Hanby]

Yeah, I'd just save the whole plane until you watch Larry's video, unless it's too late for that.

I have to post, think, fret, research, and worry myself to death before I actually get started doing anything. I've been watching saint Roy using some molding planes and they seem like some worthy additions. Since I can't afford new ones (other than maybe that small set from LV) and it looks like the old ones are going to be difficult to gather a full set and even then require a lot of work to get them usable, this seems like a good excuse to start another tool making project. Plus this project seems like one I can tinker with whenever I have a spare hour or two. Even bigger plus, I get to play with fire!!!!! bwhahahahaahah.

[David Weaver]

Unless you luck into a reasonable price of old ones that are still in use and are in good shape, I'd just make them. I spent about $350 on moulding planes in various places until I got tired of looking for enough matches.

If I just went out and bought matched pairs of planes that I needed, and did it on a whim, I would've probably got stuck spending about $60 a pair.

If you buy the steel (and have a belt sander) you can probably make them for about $10-$15 each, less whatever it would cost you in use of floats, etc, if you sold them off at the end.

[Brian Cameron]

I wish you well on making them..I would like to do it also and, now that I am retired, may make an attempt. However, I am now sitiing a missing 5 planes for a complete 36 set of18 Century Holllows and Rounds by Madox and Mutter..looking forward to finishing that set...and then start another quest for the side bead set..

[Peter Cobb]

Jerome,
I enjoyed Tod Herrli's DVD (http://members.bellatlantic.net/%7Evze2nwp6/planes/hollow.html) on the subject. Walks you through the whole process (includes making your iron). Also explains how to make your own floats if you want to save a couple of bucks on that side of things. I started building the OWT/router from Haywards' (http://toolemera.com/Books%20%26%20Booklets/booksplans.html) book and need a couple of floats to correct a mistake (another project on the list!).
Cheers,
Peter Cobb

[Russell Sansom]

You might want to make a similar non-curved plane first. A rabbet plane is always good or a dovetail plane is useful if you make shelving at all. It's just so much easier for a beginner to make squared-up irons from scratch, compared to curved ones. If you can't get a rabbet plane working perfectly, you probably won't be able to master a hollow or round working until you have a little more practice and you get an intuitive grasp of the unexpected reliefs and angles involved in all these kinds of planes.

[Jerome Hanby]

Jerome, Also explains how to make your own floats if you want to save a couple of bucks on that side of things. Peter Cobb I started out thinking I'd have to make floats, but the Lie-Nielsen models don't look completely out of my price range, $50-$60 a pop. They show Bed and Edge floats in both 1/8" and 3/16" sizes and Side and Small Cheek floats in both push and pull models. Which floats do I really need? I'm guessing that the push or pull models are a preference, but I'd like to hear from someone that knows. Found this in another forum
However, I sent a version of this question to Old Street Tools (http://planemaker.com/) and I was delighted to get a response back in less than a day. The specific recommendation was a push side float and the two edge floats – the cheek floats being nice to have but not critical. That sound like a good starting point?

[David Weaver]

Push cheek float, pull side float and whatever edge float you want to get.

It is convenient to have them all (to be able to easily do whatever you want to do, and do it without blowing the edges of anything out), though not necessary.

Of course, you could buy them all, decide which ones you don't use and then sell them and get most of your money back.

Or you could buy the three I suggested above and then make a pull cheek float yourself (it's not that much filing) and buy the wide edge float and make a 1/8th edge float on your own - that'd also be a pretty easily filing job, and you can just harden the teeth on the end and have a pretty functional float.