Fairness Question on Classified Sale [Archive] - Sawmill Creek Woodworking Community

Mike Henderson

01-10-2012, 11:31 AM

I had an unusual situation occur recently in making a sale through the classified section of the forum, and I would like your opinion so that I can avoid the situation in the future.

I listed a router plane on Monday. The first response was from someone who asked me to hold the plane until Friday, when he could make payment. I responded that I wouldn't do that - that I'd accept the first response that provided payment. He understood and replied that he'd check back on Friday to see if it was still available.

The second response was from someone who wanted the plane but couldn't pay until he arrived home that evening. Because of how I had responded to the first response, I felt it only fair that I respond the same way to the second person, and did so, saying essentially the same thing - I'd sell to the first person who provided payment.

I then received two more responses and sent my PayPal ID to the first of those two, who paid me via PayPal.

Do you think I handled this in a fair manner? The only difference between the first two responses was the time period. I felt that if I wouldn't wait several days, I had to take the same approach to several hours.

How would you have handled it?

Some issues I see:
1. What if someone wanted to send a check, while someone else was willing to pay via PayPal. The PayPal payment closes the sale immediately, while the "check in the mail" doesn't close the sale for several days. Would it be fair to favor the PayPal buyer over the check buyer, even if the check person responded first?
2. How much time should a person be given to provide payment via PayPal? Would you wait until tomorrow if you had other buyers ready to provide payment today?

A seller should probably specify a policy when listing the item so that everyone knows how things will be handled. Perhaps from the discussion in this thread we can come up with a policy that we can all follow.

Mike

Derek Gilmer

01-10-2012, 11:46 AM

Back to back like that I see why you made the choice. But waiting til afternoon doesn't seem unreasonable to me. The person might be on phone checking the forum and can't get to paypal or paypal is blocked at work and they can pay when they get home.

It is similar to someone sending a message saying "I'll take it, what is your paypal address to send payment" while checking the forum at lunch. Then not being able to check again until after work to see your reply to send payment.

On the check thing, if it was a contributor or someone with a decent number of posts I'd wait for the check.

Mike Cutler

01-10-2012, 11:47 AM

Mike

It's always a balancing act, and what makes it even tougher is that the people here on the board are pretty much straight up folks, and you're trying to do right by them.
A few years back I sold a few of my planes, and about the only ethic I abided by was to honor the first commitment of payment, and specify a time frame, I kept it to one working day.
I then PM'd back the other folks that expressed interest, and told them what their relative position was should the original commitment fall through.
I don't know that I like a formal policy as I did hold one plane for a few days, but it was an extreme case. The memeber was in the armed forces on active duty and serving in Bagdhad at the time. I guess there are some delays in the ability to correspond, and effect payment, from there. Which I found understandable given the circumstances. And yes, He did buy the plane. ( It was kinda cool shipping something to Bagdhad too.)
I also recieved payments by check, in addition to PayPal, and still it was based on the first commitment. I didn't favor one payment method over another.

Jeff Hamilton Jr.

01-10-2012, 12:04 PM

Just my personal opinion.

We are, fortunately or unfortunately, in a world of immediacy. Further, it is not unusual (in my personal experience) for folks to "change minds" in the course of trying to negotiate a price on an object. It seems an unfair burden on the seller to "wait" under the above circumstances rather than taking a completed payment as THE conclusion of the sale.

Therefore, I believe PayPal is really the only reasonable way to conduct transactions here. We feel like we all know each other - but really don't - and PayPal gives some level of protection to both the buyer and seller. It is not difficult to open an account and is certainly easy to use.

If someone makes a personal choice to use a check, then it would seem to me they do so at the risk of losing the purchase. Is the seller supposed to forgo other "sure" sales while awaiting the Post Office? Then the bank clearing the check? What if the check NSF's?

Simply put, the first party ready willing and ABLE to conclude the transaction should prevail.

David Weaver

01-10-2012, 12:23 PM

First with paypal payment is how I'd specify it. Not because I'm trying to be cruel, but one of the things that prevents me from posting a lot of stuff on the classifieds here is that there is too much back and forth once you do it. Too many people who say they're interested, but they're going to look around for a little first and will get back to you, etc. I understand they're not intending to make things complicated, but I will sell paypal only unless I know someone I'm dealing with, and whoever can pay it immediately.

If someone can't pay, then I would ask them to send a PM again when they can. There's no lay away, or you'll just convince yourself that it's too much of a hassle to sell, anyway.

It's already a pain dealing with taking pictures, describing something, packing, etc. It can be an hours worth of screwing around in total for something that we might be better off (time-wise) throwing away than yielding a few bucks on.

So, anyway, I'd specify all sales as paypal only, first to pay gets it so you're not spending your day keeping a list of who might do what.

Dan Hintz

01-10-2012, 12:34 PM

Tough call. Personally, I look at who is offering to purchase it. If it's a relatively new poster, I generally won't wait more than an hour or two before expecting payment in my PP inbox. If it's someone I recognize or has been here a while, I may be willing to wait a day or two for payment. I want to be fair, but I also don't want to create an atmosphere where someone can hold up the purchase of an item for long periods of time when they were not serious about it in the meantime.

Take my recent lathe purchase from Bill Grumbine. It's a $7k purchase, but he knows me and is willing to wait a while for a check to arrive. I told him I'd get a check in the mail in the next day or so, but if I was a bad person I could hold that sale up for a week or more. If he didn't know me, I would expect to pay a non-refundable deposit at the very least.

Bruce Page

01-10-2012, 1:37 PM

There’s an old adage “A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush” and based on a few sales through Craigslist falling apart I can easily understand not wanting to wait a week. That said, as a buyer that committed to the purchase, I don’t think it is unreasonable to expect the seller to hold the item for a few hours.

glenn bradley

01-10-2012, 1:43 PM

I agree that the interval between the events makes your decision sound. If the follow asking for you to wait till "this evening" had been an isolated event I would have done so. Given your situation I feel that you acted appropriately. I still have an item that I denied to one person because another had said he would buy it . . . still waiting . . . never again, sorry ;).

Mike Henderson

01-10-2012, 2:02 PM

If the fellow asking for you to wait till "this evening" had been an isolated event I would have done so. Given your situation I feel that you acted appropriately.
I agree and would have waited if I hadn't refused the first person.

Mike

Jim Koepke

01-10-2012, 2:26 PM

"I will gladly pay you next Tuesday for a hamburger today."

I have had trouble with checks, caused by my bank making a mistake. They were checks I sent and it took quite a bit to clean up the mess. I imagine my name may be on a few lists of sellers.

Paypal has not been a problem for me.

There have also been a few times where I held an item for someone that never came up with the funds. The tools were set aside and for a few weeks every time I saw them setting there made me wonder if it would ever close. Finally I gave up and put the tools back with my users.

These are the kinds of difficulties that keep me from selling for income. My selling is limited to raising money for a new toy.

jtk

Brian Elfert

01-10-2012, 2:43 PM

Whenever I have purchased something locally on Craigslist it has always been the first guy to show up with the cash gets it. Rarely will anyone hold an item unless they seller can't meet right away to make the sale.

Too many people won't bother to tell a seller if they aren't going to be able to complete the sale at the agreed upon time. If the seller holds something for 24 hours and the sale falls through the seller may have missed several other buyers who would have purchased immediately.

Jeff Monson

01-10-2012, 3:06 PM

I think you did the right thing Mike. Selling on classifieds through the internet is a tough thing to be consistently fair on. If I had a dollar for every "I'll take it" pm's that I have received on other forums, I could buy a nice steak dinner. I've adopted the same policy, 1st to pay gets what I have to sell.

Matt Meiser

01-10-2012, 3:29 PM

I don't think what you did was wrong, nor do I think holding it until the evening would have been wrong. I'd definitely be inclined to take into account whether I know the person or not. If I was "holding" it until evening, I'd probably just hold off responding to further PM's until then. Also if I didn't receive the payment as promised, I'd probably send a PM giving a very brief grace period.

Van Huskey

01-10-2012, 4:41 PM

Your sale thus your conditions period.

Everyone is different but one thing to keep in mind from the potential buyers POV is he/she probably isn't sitting at the computer all day wating for the reply. I would say waiting 24-48hrs for payment would be "normal" but again your sale your rules.

The funny thing is in reality I would do something similar to Dan. I would give everyone that has replied to this thread for example extra time compared to a name I didn't recognize. If it was Mike Cruz I would hold it maybe 2 minutes... Just kidding if Mike wanted something of mine I would hold it for as long as he liked, because he held something for me for months before I could pick it up and wouldn't even take payment in the meantime.

Being totally honest (maybe I shouldn't be) if I had something for sale here and got a PM from a name I never see and then before I responded got a PM from a name I see all the time, and feel a "friendship" with like the people in this thread I would feel rather compelled to respond to the "friend" first, no it wouldn't be fair but if my grandfather called me just after that "unknown" persons PM and said he wanted what ever I was selling he would be the one to get it. Once I say I will sell it to you I will provided you pay in a resonably prompt manner, until I say I will sell it to you I suppose I "reserve the right to refuse service".

Anthony Whitesell

01-10-2012, 4:50 PM

For the situation you ended up in with the first four callers, I do would have done and expected the same response.

As to your first question, about waiting for a check versus paypal. I'm not sure what I would have done. I would have waited for the check to clear before the plane was headed out of my hands.

For question #2, now that I see it in writing, if someone tells me they will pay when they get home is better than some saying they will pay and not tell me when. Taking into account caller #1, I still may have ending up going to the slow paypal caller not knowing when they would pay.

Here's a third question: What would you do if caller #2 (I can pay this afternoon via paypal) had said I can pay you CASH this afternoon? Would you have waited?

Joe Angrisani

01-10-2012, 5:47 PM

Scott Donley

01-10-2012, 6:34 PM

Just to point out something about checks. The money isn't yours when the check "clears". Your bank can come back to you for ninety days, and it may be even longer. They can come back to you long after a typical ten day clearing period shows the funds available.

I would never take a check from a stranger.Just to point out, PayPal is not fault free ether. I quit PP a number of years ago after PP deducted 300.00 out of my checking account, odd, as I had not bought anything for a while. After Many many e-mails and phone calls AND 4 MONTHS, I got my money back. I closed my PP account and will never use it again. If that means I can not buy from someone on this forum, so be it. I have bought 2 different items from here in the past using a check. It is highly unusual for a check to take 90 days to be paid, even when fraud is involved.

Kent A Bathurst

01-10-2012, 7:11 PM

I think you're fine. As said above - Your stuff. Your rules.

I only sell to Contributors. They have some skin in the game, I figger. I have handled things in various ways, depending on the situation. For a firm commitment, I'll give them a time frame to execute, and list it as "PP". For an item of modest amount, when someone wants to pay by check, I go ahead and ship....if a Contributor is going to stiff me over a $50 item, then my faith in humanity was misplaced that one time, but not forever - and this has never happened. I just won't run scared, I guess. For something of bigger value, a check has never come up - always been paypal, so its a bang-bang txn. If it was someone I "know" from the Contrib list that wanted to send a check, I'd still send it out check-unseen. I have a pretty good feel for many of you characters by now. ;)

Tim Morton

01-10-2012, 7:29 PM

i think you did the right thing in terms of the first guy, a week is a long time for someone to change their mind. I don't know how much the item was selling for, but if it was a larger item and i needed a week to get the money, and i really wanted the item, i may have offered you a non refundable $100 deposit or something.

But the guy who was willing to buy it and pay you that same day, i would have accepted that and placed a tight deadline. This way if i had another offer in the mean time i would have been able to let them know that there was payment pending, and let him know the deadline.

All that being said...i have no problems with the way you handled it, and choosing to go with first one to provide payment is certainly fair and reasonable.

Anthony Whitesell

01-10-2012, 7:57 PM

I was once stiffed my an eBay seller and I had used PayPal cash for the transaction. I thought I was safe due to their protection. I found out (at the time, things may have changed since) that I only get the money back if the seller had the cash in their account. Stiffed by the seller then stiffed by PayPal. Most of the time I now pay with a credit card through PayPal (for 'creek business and few select others, I'll do cash). Atleast the credit card company is good enough to do something about it. Wait minute. Did I really just give praise to credit card companies?

Jim Matthews

01-10-2012, 8:45 PM

Joel Goodman

01-10-2012, 10:08 PM

I think we should be excellent to other contributors to the creek.

Perhaps my stuff isn't as valuable, but I'll send it out for an inspection first.
If it meets their specs, I ask them to send me a check.

Most of the tools I sell are extra, in any case. I couldn't say how I would feel about shipping something expensive.
I'm still waiting on a saw I sent out improperly filed so I can make it right.

Most everything I've purchased in the Creek has exceeded my expectations, and that's my aim as well.

jim
wpt, ma

I still like to pay by check (can't stand Ebay, Paypal) and usually say to the seller please hold the check until you're comfortable. I had Sandy Moss (on my first transaction with him) tell me to send the check after you see the tools. I was impressed!

My feeling is that if I'm buying from a fellow Creeker (or selling) I am inclined to be a bit trusting and have found others to be too. But I understand that others may dislike checks as much as I dislike Paypal and should sell in the fashion that suites their preferences.

As to Mike's original issue: I think he's feeling a little bad about the buyer who needed till that night to get Paypal going. Another way to handle it would have been to hold the item until that evening -- but keep the buyer who was ready to go in reserve -- I'm sure he would have waited a few hours before buying another item. The sellers I've dealt with have all taken my word that the check was in the mail and held the item -- they haven't been disappointed by me.

But all in all I wouldn't lose sleep over it. The fact that you're trying to figure out the most ethical way to handle this in the future is commendable!

Rick Potter

01-11-2012, 3:41 AM

I would have raised the price. :D

Seriously, we all have different circumstances. Your stuff, your choice Mike.

Rick Potter

John Coloccia

01-11-2012, 7:54 AM

There are people that I trust in that if they say, "I want it...I'll work out the details tonight" I'll trust them on it. For other folks, I may simply change my listing to "sale pending" and if it falls through, I start going down the list of other interested parties. Generally, though, I sell to the first person who actually buys it. Simple.

Phil Thien

01-11-2012, 9:04 AM

Perfectly fair in my book. Nothing in the least wrong with how you conducted yourself.

Jim Matthews

01-11-2012, 9:51 AM

For other folks, I may simply change my listing to "sale pending" and if it falls through, I start going down the list of other interested parties.

That's perfectly reasonable.

Harry Hagan

01-11-2012, 9:57 AM

I’ve wondered how the seller updates the status of the item (i.e. sold or sale pending) since regular postings can’t be edited after a certain period of time.

It would certainly be helpful to state your preferred method of payment when the item is offered for sale and also not be unreasonable to make a concession for someone you trusted and wanted to accommodate; especially if you have the option of posting: “Sale pending”

Michael Moscicki

01-11-2012, 9:58 AM

Here's a third question: What would you do if caller #2 (I can pay this afternoon via paypal) had said I can pay you CASH this afternoon? Would you have waited?

If it was me I'd take cash over paypal. It means the the buyer will pick it up in person. Saves me a trip to the post office/UPS store and it saves me the cost of shipping. Local people are always better to work with than people who you have to ship too.

Kent A Bathurst

01-11-2012, 10:21 AM

I’ve wondered how the seller updates the status of the item (i.e. sold or sale pending) since regular postings can’t be edited after a certain period of time.

Reply to your own thread...............

Harry Hagan

01-11-2012, 10:24 AM

That would be one way, but I've seen the original post edited.

Dan Hintz

01-11-2012, 10:46 AM

Within the first 24 hours you can edit a post... after that, it's locked.

Harry Hagan

01-11-2012, 11:17 AM

Within the first 24 hours you can edit a post... after that, it's locked.

It could be that I’ve only noticed the title edited to state “Sold” in original postings that were less than 24 hours old. I was hoping that the Classified forum was different.

Greg Urwiller

01-14-2012, 11:12 PM

Unfortunately I miss out on a lot of items I'd like to buy because I don't have a PayPal account. I have 2 hobbies, woodworking and hunting/guns. Because of PayPal's policy towards the latter, I've chosen not to have an account with them. Ebay's virtually eliminated, and it seems like a lot of people prefer PP in private transactions anymore. I always offer a USPS MO, but that's the best I can do. So, I'm pretty well hosed. But, if I was the seller, I know I'd chose the instant gratification too. Greg

Mike Henderson

01-15-2012, 12:20 AM

Brian Elfert

01-15-2012, 1:13 AM

What's the deal with Paypal and hunting/guns? Is it that you can't pay for a gun purchase with PayPal? Or is it something related to hunting?

Paypal strictly forbids use of its service to pay for any firearms or ammunition. It seems to be related to all the legal regulations surrounding sales of firearms, not some anti-gun belief. Paypal also doesn't allow sales of tobacco or alcohol which are also highly regulated.

Paypal apparently is worried about legal issues with sales of highly regulated products even though they are not actually making the sale.

John Fabre

01-15-2012, 1:46 AM

Knock on wood, never had a problem with MO's, checks or PP, except their fees.

Jim Becker

01-15-2012, 7:06 PM

Honestly, I have no issue with the way you handed things, Mike. I routinely sell equestrian tack items to folks on the horse forum I participate on and I have the same policy...money talks. I do say in my classifieds that it's PayPal only...no trades, no checks, etc. One time I've worked with someone who is actually local and they picked up and paid cash. (That's the way I handle Craigs List. Cash only. No exceptions)

Jim Becker

01-15-2012, 7:07 PM

It could be that I’ve only noticed the title edited to state “Sold” in original postings that were less than 24 hours old. I was hoping that the Classified forum was different.

A moderator can change the title for you at any time once your editing privilege expires.

Jim
SMC Moderator

Greg Urwiller

01-15-2012, 8:26 PM

Paypal has been known to prohibit innocuous items such as parts (stocks for instance), hunting items (not firearms/ammunition), knives, and memorabilia. They've sometimes locked accounts and it's up to you to convince them that the item in question is harmless. People have had their accounts locked for months. For some it's been quite a hassle. It would be a little different if they questioned the item first, but it seems like they lock first, and ask no questions. Guilty until proven innocent. ANYWAY, I've just chosen not to have an account, but it's getting to be a pain anymore. I'd like to be picking up some hand planes on Ebay, but I'm going to need a PP account if I do. And obviously from the posts, PP is being used a lot more in the classified section here also. I'll probably go ahead and dive in one of these days. As far as the OP goes, I see nothing wrong with the way it was handled. The seller was up front with everyone from the first. Greg

Brian Elfert

01-15-2012, 8:56 PM

An newer alternative to Paypal is Amazon Payments. Anyone with an Amazon account can use Amazon Payments. Amazon Payments is currently free for personal accounts even with credit card payments. You are limited to receiving $1000 a month in credit card payments with a personal account. Your SSN number is required as of Jan 1, 2012 due to some new IRS regulation.

payments.amazon.com is the web address.

Jim Matthews

01-15-2012, 9:09 PM

I just looked into this;

the required fields for verification are an identity thief's wet-dream.
Birthdate - Mother's maiden name - SSN?

Why don't I just give Amazon a map to the pirate's treasure....

keith jensen

01-15-2012, 10:01 PM

Brian Elfert

01-15-2012, 11:00 PM

I just looked into this;

the required fields for verification are an identity thief's wet-dream.
Birthdate - Mother's maiden name - SSN?

Every bank you do business with has that information too. Are you keeping your money under your mattress? I would suspect that Amazon is every bit as careful with this data as your bank. A data breach would seriously hurt their business and lead to countless lawsuits.

The IRS is cracking down on "small" online sellers who are not paying taxes on their income. If you use a third party payment processor such as Amazon Payments or Paypal the processor will be required to send a 1099-K to the IRS if you receive more than 200 transactions and more than $20,000 in a calendar year. See http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/2010/pdf/2010-20200.pdf for the long boring details. My understanding is you must include the 1099-K income on your taxes, but you can also deduct your expenses just as any typical business.

It appears that Paypal is only asking for your SSN or TIN when you get close to the reporting threshold. Amazon is requiring your SSN or TIN for all accounts and I know a lot of people are up in arms that they require it even if you don't meet the reporting requirements.

Dan Hintz

01-16-2012, 6:58 AM

I would suspect that Amazon is every bit as careful with this data as your bank. A data breach would seriously hurt their business and lead to countless lawsuits.
ROFLMAO... that's rich. They can be hacked (and have been) just like anyone else. About the only major company that has been sued for faulty security was TJX Companies (parent to T.J. Maxx, Marshall's, etc.), and that was by a major shareholder. TJX was absolutely moronic in their security design, they were cited multiple times by their compliance company and told how to fix things, but they didn't. Us peons have no hope of suing someone like Amazon and winning.

Jim Matthews

01-16-2012, 7:55 AM

ROFLMAO... that's rich. They can be hacked (and have been) just like anyone else. About the only major company that has been sued for faulty security was TJX Companies (parent to T.J. Maxx, Marshall's, etc.), and that was by a major shareholder. TJX was absolutely moronic in their security design, they were cited multiple times by their compliance company and told how to fix things, but they didn't. Us peons have no hope of suing someone like Amazon and winning.

What Dan said. There is absolutely NO reason any entity beyond the Social Security administration should have that number on file.
It is not ever required to provide the SSN to banks when opening accounts - your driver's license is sufficient for that task.
Anyone using electronic communications today should reconsider handing over unique signifiers - EVERY lock has a key.

Brian Elfert

01-16-2012, 10:09 AM

What Dan said. There is absolutely NO reason any entity beyond the Social Security administration should have that number on file.
It is not ever required to provide the SSN to banks when opening accounts - your driver's license is sufficient for that task.
Anyone using electronic communications today should reconsider handing over unique signifiers - EVERY lock has a key.

What bank doesn't ask for your SSN when you open an account? They usually check your credit for a checking account and they need your SSN if they need to file a 1099-INT with the IRS.

David Keller NC

01-16-2012, 10:33 AM

Rick Potter

01-16-2012, 11:42 AM

Where I live, the city won't even open a water account without a SS number.
Hard to shop somewhere else for that.

Rick Potter

Joe Angrisani

01-16-2012, 3:47 PM

How do you control who the first person to deposit into your paypal account is? If you have five people respond immediately do you give all five your paypal address? Can you then select which paypal transfer you accept of the five?.....

You can do a refund of any individual Paypal payment you receive. There's a link in the paragraph near the bottom of the Payment Details page for any payment. You can even do a partial refund on the page it links to by changing the amount. Fees are also refunded when you do a return/cancellation this way (even partial refunds get partial fee reversal).

Bill Orbine

01-16-2012, 8:58 PM

I think the first person who commits him/her-self to buy your item should be able to get that item within reasons if it would take a little time to get the money to you. Because you accept Pay-Pal, you have to realize the buyer may need to transfer funds if the buyer doesn't have enough in his/her Pay-Pal account. Last time I did a Pay-Pal payment, it took a couple of days before the funds were transfered....subjected to my bank's approval. My bank called me to confirm if the transfer was valid... it was a large sum of money at the time.

Dan Hintz

01-17-2012, 6:14 AM

Jim Matthews

01-17-2012, 7:05 AM

I never give out my SSN unless it's absolutely necessary. The FTC (http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/consumer/idtheft/idt04.shtm) has guidelines for cleaning up the mess after identity theft.
Here's the latest reason why I won't post it online - Zappo's is an Amazon affiliate.

Zappo's (http://finance.yahoo.com/news/24-million-customer-accounts-hacked-171026426.html)

Myk Rian

01-17-2012, 8:13 AM

I've waited 3-4 days to finalize a deal. I think the second guy that contacted you got hosed.

The second response was from someone who wanted the plane but couldn't pay until he arrived home that evening. Because of how I had responded to the first response, I felt it only fair that I respond the same way to the second person, and did so, saying essentially the same thing - I'd sell to the first person who provided payment.

Bill Orbine

01-17-2012, 9:50 AM

[Take my recent lathe purchase from Bill Grumbine. It's a $7k purchase, but he knows me and is willing to wait a while for a check to arrive. I told him I'd get a check in the mail in the next day or so, but if I was a bad person I could hold that sale up for a week or more. If he didn't know me, I would expect to pay a non-refundable deposit at the very least.[/QUOTE]

How would you feel if you commit to buying this $7k purchase and this seller sells it to someone else because that buyer who called later walked in the door with the cash all the while you're busy putting together a check or and delivering it? Paricularly, this seller is on the other side of the country from you? I'm sure you wouldn't be to happy about that.

Matt Meiser

01-17-2012, 9:59 AM

I think you are comparing apples to oranges. If the buyer and seller agree to a time period to complete the transaction then both should honor that. In this case Mike asked for immediate payment which is his right. Actually no different than Buy-It-Now listings on Ebay. The seller has the right to require immediate payment or allow later payment.

Also, I've never seen Paypal not complete immediate payment but I've only spent up to a few hundred bucks at a time.

Dan Hintz

01-17-2012, 10:28 AM

How would you feel if you commit to buying this $7k purchase and this seller sells it to someone else because that buyer who called later walked in the door with the cash all the while you're busy putting together a check or and delivering it? Paricularly, this seller is on the other side of the country from you? I'm sure you wouldn't be to happy about that.
Had I been told "The first person who gets money in my hand wins it", I would have hopped on the computer and PayPal'ed it. If the seller wasn't accepting PP and I was concerned about him leaving me high and dry, I would reconsider. Someone more local than me could pull into his driveway with cash when I was two hours into my drive and I would be stuck.

But those weren't that stated requirements. There is a certain level of trust inherent in every relationship, and both buyer and seller trust each other to abide by the rules laid out during the transaction. It only gets complicated when the rules aren't clear from the beginning.

Mike Henderson

01-17-2012, 11:57 AM

Okay, let me clarify a few things. When I list something and a potential buyers says "I'll take it", I then send my PayPal ID to that person. So I don't send payment information to multiple people and see who can pay the fastest.

This situation was a bit unusual because I had a request that I hold the item for several days. I declined. Then I got a request that I hold it until that evening. BECAUSE of my previous refusal to hold the item, I declined to hold the item for that long, and so informed the potential buyer.

Then someone contacted me who could pay immediately. I sent my PayPal ID to that person and they paid immediately.

So there's no "race" to get the payments in, or multiple payments and refunds, etc.

The person who contacted me was honest about his inability to pay until that evening, and I was honest in declining to hold the item that long. If I hadn't had the situation with the first person, I would have waited.

Mike

Pat Barry

01-17-2012, 8:52 PM

Mike, no issue with what you did, however I would have waited on guy #2 for a few hours as you described. I agree with your telling guy #1 no due to the excessive wait time though.

Mark Maleski

01-21-2012, 9:04 AM

The first and second requests to hold the router plane were different, so you would have been justified in responding differently (I.e., agreeing to hold for part of a day when you had previously declined to hold for several days). But you were under no obligation to do so. But from your description of the scenario, you should have raised the price!

Jim Koepke

01-21-2012, 2:00 PM

But from your description of the scenario, you should have raised the price!

This would be something to make me change my mind about buying from someone. When this happened to me, I have walked away.

jtk

jay gill

01-21-2012, 11:56 PM

Actually, I think the banks are legally required to obtain your SSN when you open an account (any account). It has to do with anti-money-laundering regulations/legislation, not just IRS requirements to prevent tax cheating.

I work for a mutual fund company owned by a bank and have to complete training annually. Banks are required to obtain SSN or tax id's. In addition bank's need to verify customer's identity using multiple points of verification, "know their customer", report any suspected money laundering, and, thanks to the PATRIOT Act, report any potentially suspicious money transfers. All these legal requirements also apply to a money transfer operators such as PP or Amazon Payments. I'm not stating my agreement or disagreement with the rules, just that they exist.

As to the original post, I sense some regret about not waiting a couple hours or you wouldn't have asked. I don't see anything wrong with what was done, I most likely would have waited, but you made a decision and applied it consistently. If your worried about it in the future, just state how you'll handle messages/offers to buy in the ad, and let potential buyers decide if they would like to deal with you based on how you prefer to conduct the sale. I think it is the seller's prerogative to determine whatever will work best for them as long as they are, in the broadest sense of the terms, fair and honest. (basically not lying to people and stealing their money). I think it says a lot about the community here that the Creek classifieds can exist without a hundred page TOS like the Bay or other sites have and there are seemingly minimal issues. UPDATE to original post: I realized that my last comment can't exist without mentioning that it also speaks volumes that a decision someone had made as part of a sale bothered them enough to ask for input about it and there 4+ pages of insightful replies.

Tim Offutt

01-22-2012, 11:36 AM

I have never had an issue with Paypal, matter of fact it saved me $750 when a less than honest seller shipped me a defective item I had purchased on ebay.

But my son had a near disaster with paypal. He does repair of a specific game console as a part time venture. He does circuit board repair and solder reflows. There is a chronic problem that he charges a set price to repair, $75 I think. He does dozens of these a month. People send the console and paypal payment of $75 and he repairs it asap.

Paypal decided he was doing something dishonest, money laundering was their suspicion and froze his account and confiscated his funds. He had just shy of $5,000 in his paypal account. They took exactly six months to complete their "investigation" and released his funds. He immediately transferred his money from paypal to his bank account, then closed that account and moved to another bank. Paypal admitted there had never been a complaint lodged against him but the multiple transactions tripped their software.

He learned a good lesson, the online world isn't as clean as he thought it was and to keep your money in your hands. Now when he gets paid he immediately transfers the money to a couple accounts.

Tim