MF #9 throat closing

[Jim Barrett]

I picked up a MF #9 smoother and the best adjustment I can achieve to close the throat down is about 3/32 of an inch. I can't adjust the frog any closer and retract the blade....seems weird to me but I am getting a good shaving out of it though this is relatively soft western maple. I have a Stanley 5 that I can close down to 0.001....anyone with a MF plane that can confirm?

Jim

[David Weaver]

I had a 10 that couldn't close because the casting needed to be cleaned up around the mouth, but the mouth around that one looks nice and tidy.

I have a 9 right now that I think I could probably close. I know i've closed it tighter than that.

You'll have to tune the second iron and get friendly with setting it tight to the edge if you can't get it closed more than that. The net result will be similar in most materials, but you'll be playing with the iron a little bit more setting it.

If it is the washers on the frog that are creating a problem (sometimes they will fit tight in the frog and keep it from moving forward), you could always play with them at a sander and run a little off of them - it should close tight.

I love MF's planes. They're not any better as users than the "good era" stanleys, but there's something interesting about them, anyway.

[Jim Barrett]

David,
Thanks for the response. I can mover the frog forward no problem...I just can't retract the blade enough so it does not stick out below the plane surface! There is not enough travel...if the slot in the chip breaker was about ~1/8" lower think it would be fine...

Jim

[Chris Griggs]

David,
Thanks for the response. I can mover the frog forward no problem...I just can't retract the blade enough so it does not stick out below the plane surface! There is not enough travel...if the slot in the chip breaker was about ~1/8" lower think it would be fine...

Jim

Could be a blade or chipbreaker mismatch. Are they both MFs?

[David Weaver]

Yeah, might be a replacement chipbreaker.

Set the blade end as close to the chipbreaker as possible, and if it still sticks out, you need a different chipbreaker.

I am a little confused, though, if it's still OK with the frog back - if the chipbreaker is a poor fit, then it should be protruding no matter where the frog is.

[Jim Barrett]

Could be a blade or chipbreaker mismatch. Are they both MFs?

The blade is a MF don't know about the chip breaker...it matches with Stanley and the replacement CB I purchased from LV....If I use the thicker CB from LV I have to pull the frog back even further so the blade won't protrude....

Jim

[Jim Barrett]

I am a little confused, though, if it's still OK with the frog back - if the chipbreaker is a poor fit, then it should be protruding no matter where the frog is.

As I move the frog forward I have to retract the blade so it won't protrude. I just run out of adjustment when I get to a certain point...about 3/32" away from the front of the mouth. On my LN BD planes as I move the frog forward I have enough adjustment to retract the blade so I can close the mouth up as close as I need.

Jim

[Chris Griggs]

The blade is a MF don't know about the chip breaker...it matches with Stanley and the replacement CB I purchased from LV....If I use the thicker CB from LV I have to pull the frog back even further so the blade won't protrude....

Jim

Yes, but if you put a thicker LV (or other) blade in I think you would need that extra space. I've typically had pretty good results with stock blades and chipbreakers so I don't always like to spend the extra cash replacing them, but it sounds like a CB mismatch so replacing both the blade and chipbreaker might be a fix. Actually, I'd think just replacing the blade and using the chipbreaker you have should work since the thicker blade would close the mouth and you might be able to back the frog up to where the blade won't protrude, but the mouth will still be closed. Barring that, you'd probably want to dig around and see if you can find some other vintage CBs on a parts plane or elsewhere for cheap.

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

That makes sense with a bedrock style frog; but I thought MF planes where all bailey-style, so the frog should be moving parallel to sole, (and as such, the blade projection shouldn't change) not at an angle. I suppose the mating surfaces could have been machined at an angle. I wonder if it's something you can adjust by tweaking the casting of the frog?

[Jim Koepke]

I have some non-Stanley chip breakers. I will take a look later to see if any have the slot cut a touch lower.

I think most of them actually have the notch up a bit higher.

jtk

[Joshua Byrd]

That makes sense with a bedrock style frog; but I thought MF planes where all bailey-style, so the frog should be moving parallel to sole, (and as such, the blade projection shouldn't change) not at an angle. I suppose the mating surfaces could have been machined at an angle. I wonder if it's something you can adjust by tweaking the casting of the frog?

Bingo. The sole of the plane and the mating surface of the frog are parallel on all MF planes. I have two No 14s, two No 9s, one No 8 (and a MF-made Dunlap in the No 8 size) and I don't have this problem with any of them.

For the OP: Does the blade *always* protrude, no matter where the frog is positioned? It doesn't sound like it from what you've posted, but that would indicate a mismatched chipbreaker. If the blade only protrudes as you adjust the frog forward, then your frog and/or bed is tapering toward the mouth. If you file either of them to make them parallel to the sole of the plane, then you run the risk of making it completely impossible to retract the blade no matter where the frog is positioned.

[Ron Bontz]

Now you have me wondering as well. My MF 9 shaves very well. But both iron and chip breaker are MF. I haven't put a LV or Hock set in that one yet.

[Jim Barrett]

For the OP: Does the blade *always* protrude, no matter where the frog is positioned? It doesn't sound like it from what you've posted, but that would indicate a mismatched chipbreaker. If the blade only protrudes as you adjust the frog forward, then your frog and/or bed is tapering toward the mouth. If you file either of them to make them parallel to the sole of the plane, then you run the risk of making it completely impossible to retract the blade no matter where the frog is positioned.

No, only as I move the frog to close up the mouth.

Jim

[Jim Barrett]

Having an "AHAAA" moment...didn't realize the difference between the bedrock and bailey frog castings...I have been enlightened...thanks though still not sure about this MF #9...the frog seems to be a bit sloppy, not sure if that is typical or not?

Jim

[Jim Koepke]

Having an "AHAAA" moment...didn't realize the difference between the bedrock and bailey frog castings...I have been enlightened...thanks though still not sure about this MF #9...the frog seems to be a bit sloppy, not sure if that is typical or not?

Jim

Pictures with the blade removed and even with the frog removed from the base would be helpful in trouble shooting this kind of problem.

jtk

[Greg Wease]

Have you tried the blade/chip breaker from your #5 in the MF? It sure sounds like a chip breaker issue. Has the chip breaker been flattened somehow making it longer than it should be?

[Jim Koepke]

Now you have me wondering as well. My MF 9 shaves very well. But both iron and chip breaker are MF. I haven't put a LV or Hock set in that one yet.

Ron,

You may be able to offer some useful information. At one time I made a chart of chip breaker measurements:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?109710-Would-this-be-Useful&highlight=Stanley+chip+breaker

There is a .pdf with the measurements of Stanley chip breakers in the thread.

If you could measure your MF #9 chip breaker it may help to get Jim on the right track.

jtk

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

Have you tried the blade/chip breaker from your #5 in the MF? It sure sounds like a chip breaker issue. Has the chip breaker been flattened somehow making it longer than it should be?

This may not be the case if he's also having issues with the LV chipbreaker . . . but it brings up a good point - shortening the effective length by grinding a chipbreaker would effectively make the hole lower in comparison to the leading edge, and might get you enough movement for your needs.

Also - have you done anything to check the fit of the frog and base? Even just a rubbing to see how they fit. Perhaps there's a lump of dried japanning in there somewhere kicking things at an angle. I don't like to muck too much with the fit of those two pieces, because it's easy for things to go south quickly, but I often get it seating a little better by putting a drop of valve grinding compound on each mating surface in there and rubbing the two pieces against each other in a tight motion.

[Jim Barrett]

You know sometimes a little wine and dinner seems to help clear things up!...I don't know why but I took the plane completely apart and put it back together again (kinda like Humpty Dumpty) and everything is lining up fine...not sure why but I sure know this plane a heck of a lot better now!
Well a good learning experience and want to thank everyone for their suggestions!

Jim

[Joshua Byrd]

It's great that you got it fixed, Jim. I guarantee that the frog was not seated properly. There is no way that it could be a chipbreaker issue if the problem only arose as the frog was moved forward. Of course, now I'm wondering how the frog wasn't seated properly...

[Ron Bontz]

Well for what it is worth. The chip breaker on my MF 9 is right at 5-3/16th long and 2" wide with a very slight widening at the bottom. Maybe 2&1/32nd". Measurment A on your chart is approx. 3 3/4" with the rectangle being approx. 15/32 x 5/32", B is approx. 3 3/32" from the bottom, and C is approx. 2 3/8"with the opening being approx. 17/32" x 23/32". The bend in the breaker starts approx. 3/4" form the bottom. My only complaint with my MF planes, I only have 4 of them, is the slop in the depth adjustment hole.

[Jim Koepke]

Ron,

Thanks for the measurements. That may be helpful in identifying some of the odd chip breakers in my odd stuff bin.

jtk