Cabinet End Panels and Racking - Best Practices

[scott vroom]

There's been some discussion in the past on this forum about how to design wall cabinet end panels, and in particular how to avoid the Racking that some claim can result from an improperly built end panel. I'm building hard maple shaker kitchen cabinets and want my exposed end panels to mimic the cope & stick flat panel doors (2" rails/stiles & 1/4" A1 maple plywood panels). I see a couple of ways to go:

1) Build the carcass per usual, 3/4" plywood all around and then attach a cope and stick "batten" to the plywood cabinet side that mimics the doors.

2) Construct the end panel as if it were a door: rails/stiles and floated 1/4" plywood center panel. This method would be the highest risk for racking.

3) Same as #2 but glue the center panel in place into the rails/stiles. This would likely provide sufficient strength and stability to avoid racking but violates another rule about floating the center panel. On the other hand, I'm in the SF Bay area where we have fairly consistent temp and humidity year 'round so I'm thinking I can get away with gluing the plywood center panel in place.

Does anyone have any first-person stories about racking, and/or opinions on whether my idea of 100% glued end panels is viable?

Thanks

[Pat Barry]

Scott, given these are for a kitchen and likely to be heavily loaded with plates, dishes, canned food, what have you, I would opt for option 1 only and make the finished appearance be a facade.I suspect this will also be the simplest approach of all and you can make the facades using similar setups as you do for the doors.

[Chris Rosenberger]

I have always built my framed end panels as if the were doors.
In the 20 plus years I have been building kitchen cabinets, I have never had one fail, but I use 3/4 plywood for my tops & bottoms & dado them into the end panels.
Another option would be to make your end panels as doors & cover the backside of the panels with a piece of 1/4" plywood for added insurance.

[Mike Goetzke]

I recently built our kitchen cabinets and I built the side panels like doors. I fitted them on top of the 3/4" ply cabinet box. You have to think ahead though. Don't know if you have to but I fastened the end panels to the face frames before attaching to the cabinet box so that the fasteners were hidden:

Example:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v212/mbg/Projects/Kitchen/Cabinets/Hanging/IMG_1588.jpg

Mike

[Larry Fox]

I use a combination of #1 and #2 - essentially a lot like what Mike shows. I have done quite a few of them and never had one fail or rack in any way. You can see a fairly complex example in the pic below. This is for a pantry cabinet that I recently built and installed (sorry for the poor photography - not my strong suit).

219127

[Charles Brown]

Sorry to have to ask, but what is "racking?" Can you describe what you think will happen to the end panels?

[scott vroom]

Charles, "racking" is when a cabinet sags from having more weight applied than it's structure can handle. A "racked" end panel would appear to be slightly trapezoidal from the sagging. A solid plywood end panel will not rack under normal conditions; an end panel constructed from typical rails/stiles/floating panel is structurally weaker than solid plywood and is prone to racking under certain conditions.

[scott vroom]

Mike, it sounds like you incorporate the door end panel into the face frame structure prior to attaching that unit to the box....is this correct? You're basically construction a "wrap around" face frame structure.....shaped like an "L" if viewed from the top. What thickness plywood are you using for the box side? I'm thinking if I build the box from 3/4" ply, then overlay the box side with another 3/4" door....I'm basically putting together a side that is 1.5" thick....and adding considerable weight to the cabinets. I assume you do this for wall cabs; what about base cabs where racking isn't an issue due to the cab sitting on the floor? How do you construct your base exposed ends?




I recently built our kitchen cabinets and I built the side panels like doors. I fitted them on top of the 3/4" ply cabinet box. You have to think ahead though. Don't know if you have to but I fastened the end panels to the face frames before attaching to the cabinet box so that the fasteners were hidden:

Example:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v212/mbg/Projects/Kitchen/Cabinets/Hanging/IMG_1588.jpg

Mike

[Larry Fox]

Scott, relating to your explanation of "racking" I should also point out that my end panels are not directly load-bearing. I make them with about 1/4" of gap between the bottom of the panel and the floor and about ~1/16" shorter at the top. At the floor the gap is completely covered with molding and at the top you would have to crane your neck over and look directly up to where the counter-top rests on the cabinet to detect the 1/16". IOW - neither are ever seen. I use 3/4" ply and by the time the cabinet is installed I am convinced that it would hold a granite counter top + the truck they brought it in without any ill-effects.

[scott vroom]

Scott, relating to your explanation of "racking" I should also point out that my end panels are not directly load-bearing. I make them with about 1/4" of gap between the bottom of the panel and the floor and about ~1/16" shorter at the top. At the floor the gap is completely covered with molding and at the top you would have to crane your neck over and look directly up to where the counter-top rests on the cabinet to detect the 1/16". IOW - neither are ever seen. I use 3/4" ply and by the time the cabinet is installed I am convinced that it would hold a granite counter top + the truck they brought it in without any ill-effects.

Larry, what I had intended to convey is that racking isn't a problem on base cabinets where the side panels are supported by either the finished floor or a pedestal base. I associate racking with wall cabinets where the end panels are load bearing.

[Jeff Monson]

Mike, it sounds like you incorporate the door end panel into the face frame structure prior to attaching that unit to the box....is this correct? You're basically construction a "wrap around" face frame structure.....shaped like an "L" if viewed from the top. What thickness plywood are you using for the box side? I'm thinking if I build the box from 3/4" ply, then overlay the box side with another 3/4" door....I'm basically putting together a side that is 1.5" thick....and adding considerable weight to the cabinets. I assume you do this for wall cabs; what about base cabs where racking isn't an issue due to the cab sitting on the floor? How do you construct your base exposed ends?

Scott, that is exactly how I buid my cabinets also, I build the bases the same. They get a little heavy, but very well constructed.

219130

These are some painted uppers I installed last weekend (lots of work left). I fastened the panels to the face frame prior to finishing(domino's and glue). I glued the faces onto the boxes and used screws on the rails and stiles of the panel to attach the sides and still allow for panel movement.

[Patrick McCarthy]

I also build my side panels to mimic the doors, but I back cut a 45 on the two adjoining stiles so that it appears the corner is one solid piece, and makes the show face of the two stiles the same width . . . . . ymmy

[Larry Fox]

Larry, what I had intended to convey is that racking isn't a problem on base cabinets where the side panels are supported by either the finished floor or a pedestal base. I associate racking with wall cabinets where the end panels are load bearing.

Thanks for the clarification Scott. I have never had any issue there either. I would think that if you loaded them up with enough weight for that to be a factor that you would be looking at cleat failure long before you would be looking at any deformation of the cabinet. YMMV though

[Lee Schierer]

Example:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v212/mbg/Projects/Kitchen/Cabinets/Hanging/IMG_1588.jpg

Mike

If you use lap joints at the corners they will give you far more strength than cope and stick joints and the lap will be hidden by the face frame. You should have no problem with racking.

[Mike Goetzke]

Mike, it sounds like you incorporate the door end panel into the face frame structure prior to attaching that unit to the box....is this correct? You're basically construction a "wrap around" face frame structure.....shaped like an "L" if viewed from the top. What thickness plywood are you using for the box side? I'm thinking if I build the box from 3/4" ply, then overlay the box side with another 3/4" door....I'm basically putting together a side that is 1.5" thick....and adding considerable weight to the cabinets. I assume you do this for wall cabs; what about base cabs where racking isn't an issue due to the cab sitting on the floor? How do you construct your base exposed ends?

Scott as Jeff has posted yes the FF and end panel is wrap around but "L" in a few locations but "U" on that one shown (I got some good experience using a small hand plane on that one). And yes also to 1-1/2" material on the ends.

As far a weight, (if interested PM me I can send some pictures) I got this process from a cabinet pro, since I used 3/4" backs I cut 2" wide x 1/2" deep dados in them. I then fastened 1/2" Baltic birch cleats to the wall making sure they were level. The dados are a little wider than the cleats just in case. Once the cabinet is lifted in place and hung on the cleat it takes little effort to keep it in place while you apply fasteners.

If you don't have any yet I highly suggest you use cabinet software. I purchased cabinetplanner. Good for 3-D visualizing and cutting lists (as well as inexpensive and great support).

Mike

[scott vroom]

Mike, is the side panel flush with the face frame? I can see the seam but can't tell if you made it flush or if you left a small reveal (protrusion) on the face frame edge. I actually built a shop cabinet using your method except I tried to get fancy with a 45 deg miter where the FF meets the door panel. Although it did eliminate the exposed edge, it was more trouble than it was worth IMO.

Scott



I recently built our kitchen cabinets and I built the side panels like doors. I fitted them on top of the 3/4" ply cabinet box. You have to think ahead though. Don't know if you have to but I fastened the end panels to the face frames before attaching to the cabinet box so that the fasteners were hidden:

Example:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v212/mbg/Projects/Kitchen/Cabinets/Hanging/IMG_1588.jpg

Mike

[scott vroom]

I also build my side panels to mimic the doors, but I back cut a 45 on the two adjoining stiles so that it appears the corner is one solid piece, and makes the show face of the two stiles the same width . . . . . ymmy

See my comments to Mike...I tried the 45 deg approach on an earlier cabinet but didn't use a spline etc for alignment and it was a PITA to glue it up. I think I used duct tape and shot a few pins IIR. How did you align/join the 45 degree joint in your cabs?

[Charles Brown]

Charles, "racking" is when a cabinet sags from having more weight applied than it's structure can handle. A "racked" end panel would appear to be slightly trapezoidal from the sagging. A solid plywood end panel will not rack under normal conditions; an end panel constructed from typical rails/stiles/floating panel is structurally weaker than solid plywood and is prone to racking under certain conditions.

Thanks for the explanation. I've never heard of that before. I don't really understand how a case side would rack like that when screwed to the wall. There must be considerable weight applied for that to happen.

To me, kitchen cabinets are just large rectangles (sheets of plywood) cut into smaller rectangles and then stitched together. Nothing fancy/snazzy/sexy about it. At work when we do face frame casework the end panel (if designated to be five-piece and not a plank side) is built just like our doors (cope ad stick) and then glued to the face frame at the front edge and screwed to the case side (plywood) from the inside and then scribed to the wall. If doing frameless casework then we essentially just screw the end panel (again built like a door) to the case side. Never had a problem with "racking."

[Chris Rosenberger]

Thanks for the explanation. I've never heard of that before. I don't really understand how a case side would rack like that when screwed to the wall. There must be considerable weight applied for that to happen.

To me, kitchen cabinets are just large rectangles (sheets of plywood) cut into smaller rectangles and then stitched together. Nothing fancy/snazzy/sexy about it. At work when we do face frame casework the end panel (if designated to be five-piece and not a plank side) is built just like our doors (cope ad stick) and then glued to the face frame at the front edge and screwed to the case side (plywood) from the inside and then scribed to the wall. If doing frameless casework then we essentially just screw the end panel (again built like a door) to the case side. Never had a problem with "racking."

Charles,

Racking can only happen when the framed end panel is used as the end of a cabinet. It would not be attached to a plywood cabinet end.
I had never heard of end panel racking until this thread started. If a cabinet is built properly it will not be a problem.

[Patrick McCarthy]

Scott,

I cut a 45 on the back side of each of the two mating stiles, laid them flat, face up, blue taped the entire length, flipped them over, applied TB original or 2 glue to the 45's, squeezed them close and taped around the circumference at several points . . . . . . turned out the joint line is pretty invisible. Important that your cut be good, but that is true with anything we do . . .

Also, my carcase side and shelves were 3/4 prefinished ply with dadoes in the side to hold the shelves. Thus, my side panel was not necessarily structural but rather a fascade glued to the face frame and the 3/4 ply.

[Charles Brown]

If a cabinet is built properly it will not be a problem.

That was my impression as well.

[Bob Lang]

This is a new one to me. It would have to be an incredibly bad panel to rack under the weight of the cabinet hanging on the wall. If the panel is plywood, you can glue it in and that would make it stronger, but a normal cope-and-stick panel is strong enough in this circumstance. I prefer applying the panel to the end of the plywood box, and making a miter at the joint between the panel and face frame is not big deal, if the material is straight and flat to begin with. That ensures a good cut and easy assembly. I butt the pointy ends together show face up and hold them together with clear packing tape. Flip the taped assembly over, apply glue, then fold it back.

Bob Lang

[Pat Barry]

Straight, flat and square

[scott vroom]

This is a new one to me. It would have to be an incredibly bad panel to rack under the weight of the cabinet hanging on the wall. If the panel is plywood, you can glue it in and that would make it stronger, but a normal cope-and-stick panel is strong enough in this circumstance. I prefer applying the panel to the end of the plywood box, and making a miter at the joint between the panel and face frame is not big deal, if the material is straight and flat to begin with. That ensures a good cut and easy assembly. I butt the pointy ends together show face up and hold them together with clear packing tape. Flip the taped assembly over, apply glue, then fold it back.

Bob Lang

Bob, did you author "The Complete Cabinet Maker"? If so, I have a question from the "End Panels" section on page 106.

[scott vroom]

Scott, that is exactly how I buid my cabinets also, I build the bases the same. They get a little heavy, but very well constructed.

219130

These are some painted uppers I installed last weekend (lots of work left). I fastened the panels to the face frame prior to finishing(domino's and glue). I glued the faces onto the boxes and used screws on the rails and stiles of the panel to attach the sides and still allow for panel movement.

Thanks Jeff. Did you miter the joint where FF stile meets end panel stile?

[Bob Lang]

Yes, that's me. Won't have a copy of the book in front of me until this evening.

Bob Lang

[scott vroom]

Yes, that's me. Won't have a copy of the book in front of me until this evening.

Bob Lang

Bob, In the End Panels section you describe building a plywood box with a 1.5" FF and the plywood box side set flush with the inside of the FF. That leaves .75" to add a 5-panel end...makes sense Question: How do you attach the 5-panel piece to both the FF and the box? Have you ever tried the method described above where the finished side panel is attached to the FF structure, and then that entire piece is attached to the box, with the end panel wrapping around. If nothing else, that would facilitate a very tight connection between the FF and end panel, using hidden fasteners.

Also, Figure 128 shows a chamfered v-groove between the FF and end panel....nice touch.

[Jeff Monson]

Thanks Jeff. Did you miter the joint where FF stile meets end panel stile?

I did not on this cabinet job as it was primed, painted, painted, cleared, glazed, distressed and cleared again. (hope I didnt forget a step :confused:), so my face frame wouldn't show either way. I need to take some better photos of the cabinets as the finish is really cool, my camera in my phone is not so cool.

I dont normally mitre my face frames and panels.....I'm with you when it comes to gluing up the joint, it always slips and slides and I end up making a mess. After reading Patricks post, I'm going to try the packing tape trick on my next job.

[Richard McComas]

I'm short on time so I haven't read all the post in this thread. If this has already been covered/suggested sorry.

I build the face frame and end panel and lock miter the corner, then apply it to the cabinet box.

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o159/rmccomas0043/Bloodwoodendpanel.jpg


http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o159/rmccomas0043/clamplockmiter.jpg

[Bob Lang]

Yes, I attach the end panel to the face frame first. To my way of thinking that corner is extremely important visually. That's why I like a miter joint at that location. It's much easier to get a good joint between the panel and the face frame if those are the only two pieces of the puzzle. It also makes the next step easier, because there is only one assembly (the face frame and panel) being attached to the cabinet box. I like the way a continuous face frame looks, but I don't like building one huge cabinet. With this method, I get the appearance of a single cabinet without getting a hernia.

Bob Lang

[Patrick McCarthy]

Jeff, not to quibble, but i use the blue painter's tape. It seems "soft" or pliable enough that it flexes or stretches ever so slightly when i fold the two 45's together. My only concern in mentioning this is that some tapes (and i am not an expert) may be inflexible enough that they would fold or roll the sharp edges of my corner. . . . . so i would not use something like duct tape or reinforced tape.


That said, if i had a lock mitre router bit i might try Richard's technique as it gives me the appearance i like of one solid corner stile.

[scott vroom]

Thanks to all for the helpful responses...the fog is lifting :)

[Mark W Pugh]

Yes, I attach the end panel to the face frame first. To my way of thinking that corner is extremely important visually. That's why I like a miter joint at that location. It's much easier to get a good joint between the panel and the face frame if those are the only two pieces of the puzzle. It also makes the next step easier, because there is only one assembly (the face frame and panel) being attached to the cabinet box. I like the way a continuous face frame looks, but I don't like building one huge cabinet. With this method, I get the appearance of a single cabinet without getting a hernia.

Bob Lang

Bob, great book. Just doing research to get started on my first cabinet making experience. I don't quite understand what you are saying with your statement here. The face frame is as big or as small as you make it. In the pix in this thread, it's one BIG box with the applied face frame. What am I missing? Thanks

[Ole Anderson]

The amount of glue surface on a typical cope and stick frame is considerable. I have never tried to force a joint to failure, but something is going to break before the joint (tight that is) itself fails. In addition, the opposite panel is usually plywood, so you aren't dealing with cope and stick construction on each end of a top cabinet so you have one side that is rock solid.

[Bob Lang]

You can use one face frame for an entire elevation, or a group of cabinets. I find it easier to make these as separate boxes, then attach the face frame and end panel on installation.

Bob Lang

[Mark W Pugh]

what is the best way to install the face frame, after box installation, to hide the fasteners? Pin gun and glue?

[Sam Murdoch]

Bob, I haven't read your book, but from your posts above I build cabinetry just as you do as regards end panels assembled with face frames all assembled as a unit, then attached to the separate boxes ganged up accordingly. My face frame stile to finished end panel is either biscuited (or domino) and glued for paint grade, or for stain grade, a simple miter folded into position with strapping tape until the glue dries - no lock joint needed. Discovering the ease and logic of building separate boxes for each functional cabinet - whether 2 door upper, 1 door upper, drawer base, corner cab etc. and then applying a fully assembled face frame to one elevation worth of cabinets - as much as practical to handle from shop through install, was an epiphany for me and I never looked back. Should have read your book huh? :)