Couple of questions regarding...

[Chris Studley]

Wood sources and Anchor seal (and alternatives)

First: Wood sources.
I see a lot of beautiful turnings posted here and the wood variety is quite extensive. Where does everyone get their wood? I've see some websites references here on the creek and the prices seem quite reasonable but they are in other states.(I am in Southern, NH) I know it's the shipping that will get me on these. This lead me to give Google another more thorough set of search terms and I came up with a place about an Hour from Me... (http://www.righteouswoods.com/burls.html)Righteous Wood (http://www.righteouswoods.net/woodmenu.html)s (http://www.righteouswoods.com/burls.html). (http://www.righteouswoods.com/burls.html) (FIXED LINK HERE (http://www.righteouswoods.com/burls.html))They seem to have an almost unbelievable selection. A lot of the lumber I can get at the more local lumber yard and the prices are within the +/- I'd expect. However, Things like burls (unavailable at the more local Place) are priced by the Pound. I have never bought wood that way although it seems reasonable on things like a burl that the traditional board foot measurement is problematic. I really have no frame of reference for what a burls weight/density would be for say a 4" cube. I realize that there are far too many variables, such as moisture/species etc, but a guesstimate with a +/- would be more than I have now. I was also wondering if someone here could take a quick look at the price list and see what end of the pricing scale they seem to be (very expensive vs. a steal)

Second: Anchor Seal.
I have a 40' dead Maple(I think) coming down later in the week. If it has been dead for at least a year or two, will the wood be dry(or dryer) and not need anchor seal? Also are there any alternatives? I have read about melting Parafin wax (which is cheap) and brushing it on Hot. This seems more cost effective, has anyone done this or have another suggestion? I'd Prefer to drop the extra $25 elsewhere.

Thanks all.

[Bill Bulloch]

Chris, I don't know what the Sales Tax is in New Hampshire, but buying online from an out-of-state vender you will not have to pay the tax. This savings will somewhat negate the shipping cost and make online buying favorable, especially if you find a good deal on timber.


Your Maple tree just maybe too dry to turn. The only way to find out is to cut it into blanks (at least one blank) and try turning it. If it is too dry and punky it might not be worth fooling with; you'll know by the time you get it round.

I have never used parafin, it sounds like a lot of trouble to me. Anchorseal does not cost that much by the gallon. But better yet, if you belong to a club, try getting your club to make a bulk pruchase. We buy a 55 gallon drum to divide among members, it comes to about $8.00 a gallon that way. Another alternative is to thin white glue with water, then wallpaper the ends of the logs with newspaper. And, then there is Latex Paint....try some of the cheap paint that you get at Big Lots -- might want to apply two coats.

[Bill Bukovec]

I rough turned a bunch of bowls from a dying maple my neighbor had.

All but one cracked severely. At least I had a lot of shavings for the garden path.

I think the tree may be too dry to turn also. Never hurts to give it a try though.

Bill

[Rob Cunningham]

So far, all the wood I have turned has been free. I look for people having tree work done, stop and ask if they want to get rid of any wood.
For Anchorseal contact U-C Coatings (the makers of Anchorseal). http://www.uccoatings.com/AboutUCCoatings

[Chris Studley]

Thanks for the Info...I have a piece of Bradford Pear that I used the Glue method on (I will see how well it worked soon enough)

As far as sales Tax, there is none in NH. However, the source in question is in MA, and it is 6.25%. I'm not sure if shipping will be cheaper than this.

[Prashun Patel]

I'm not sure what 'too dry to turn' means.

It might be too rotten to turn, but that'll reveal itself when you cut into it. If it's punky, it's too far gone (unless there are only small pockets of rot and the wood is largely stable.

I use homemade 'anchorseal' myself. It's not hard. Just melt paraffin wax and mineral spirits together. Start at 50:50 by volume. You can adjust it to your desired consistency. I've made about 5-6 gallon batches of it at slightly varying viscosities and all have performed about the same.

[Dan Forman]

A lot of us (city dwellers at least) get much of our wood from tree services, many of which are glad to have somebody pick up the wood at the source so that they have less of it to deal with it, and it's free. I have made a few scores by just coming upon a pile of wood in someones yard, or happened by them when they were cutting down a tree, and just asking what they were planning on doing with it.

Your maple tree will probably still be damp, may be spalted (which is good), if not rotten or cracked (bad) or buggy (some like this, some not). If you are going to buy Anchor Seal, ask for the old formula, which by all accounts is more effective than the new one. I would think that melted wax would be difficult to apply outside in cool or cold temps, which is where I seal my wood, though I've never tried it.

Burls are customarily sold by the pound and are generally sealed when green. If you are lucky, a tree service will come up with burls now and again. I've only bought the Australian variety, and they are pretty spendy. It can be hard to find dried spindle blanks over 2" thick (specially with good figure), such as for pepper mills, as most kiln dried hardwood is sold in 2" thickness and under. If you cut your own from green stock, the general rule is allow one year per inch of thickness for drying, with the end grain sealed. I am not aware of folks having much success doing pepper mills in a twice turned process, I think because of the difficulty with all of the drilling required - hard to use a Forstner bit on an ovaled hole. Here is one of the few sources for kiln dried larger spindle blanks (look for "kiln dried" in the heading): Green Valley Wood Products. Turning Blanks 3" X 3" (http://gvwp.net/category/62-turning-blanks-3-x-3.aspx)

Dan

[Chris Studley]

I'm not sure what 'too dry to turn' means.

Ha! I meant, too far gone in the sense it will crack or explode one trying to turn. Your reply covered most of what i was getting at.

[Brian Brown]

You might also try your local landfill. *Federal law requires landfills to have a green pit for trees and bushes to be mulched if they want to receive federal fund for operating costs. *Part of the law requires that the landfill allows scavaging. *The best local wood burl I ever got came from a landfill.

[Chris Studley]

@ Dan...

the source in question has a fair amount of various burls and things and a decent selection(per their website, anyway)

I just have no idea what is customary regarding pricing per pound, nor what 5 lbs of burls will be like sizewise. Unfortunatly, those two things have many variables. I plan on making the trip out to the supplier (about an hour one way) but am trying to have an idea of what to expect, price wise and what I'm talking about when I arrive.

[Chris Studley]

I have looked a few times at the local dump, and has always been a heap of Pine. Right now it is overun with x-mas trees, more pine. I will keep at it thanks.

[Jamie Donaldson]

Brian- I'm curious about the comment you made that states "part of the law allows scavanging?" Most of our local landfills do not allow such, claiming liability issues, and these "dumps" have often been a gold mine for turners to "recycle" good turning stock. Can you elaborate?

[John Keeton]

Chris, I mostly use Big Leaf Maple burl, and most of the burls I buy come from Mike Smith, and you can see some of those in the active thread here (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?179338-Not-just-a-wood-gloat-an-adventure!). Mike typically gets $3/lb. for Big Leaf Maple burl, and depending on the moisture content, a small burl suitable for a 6-7" hollow form could weigh 2-5 lbs. In the pics in that thread, the burls on the right side, toward the back, are not very visible. However, several of them are around 3' long, and will contain as many as 5-6 separate burls suitable for a form. Several of those weighed 25 - 38lbs, so the cost could run $75 - $115 - or around $15-20/burl. Obviously, there are much larger burls, taller ones, flat ones, etc., so it depends on what you want to turn.

Shipping several burls is not as bad as one would think, and Mike could tell you what that would run prior to committing to the purchase.

There are several other sources, as well, but most are not on the east coast as you have noted.

You have received good advice and comment on the second question.

[Steve Braman]

I keep an eye on Craigslist. Many people in our area that recently asking for help removing trees. Often offered as free unseasoned firewood that needs to be cut to length.

[Chris Studley]

@John,

It's funny because the thread that you referenced is what convinced me to search a bit more for the local(or semi local) source, since I'm not going to be buying enough for Mr. Smith to make a personal delivery. I'm sure I will use him as a resource, at some point, but if I can find something more local that I can have a piece of wood "Speak to me" before I buy it all the better.

The website of the local(ish) source I referenced (I fixed the link above (http://www.righteouswoods.com/burls.html)) seemed to indicate that they have quite a selection, including more exotic burls as well. I called and the guy and he indicated that the website was out of date and he didn't have as much selection as the website indicated. He then proceeded to rattle off what had to have been 5-6 different types of burls he had in stock and a whole host of other exotic woods cut for turning. Sounded like a good selection to me...

Thanks for giving more info. The whole price per pound thing while seemingly quite practicle was hard to have an idea of what I'm getting into. The reasonable price reference on at the least one species (BLM burl) gives me something to compare it to. Any more ball park numbers like that are helpful.


Also, have you ever turned Briar Burl? Any pitfalls of design challenges? The guy said he had a bunch of them. I figure supply/demand and all that...

[Dan Forman]

Chris --- I haven't bought any burl or bowl blanks myself, so don't have anything to add, but John's post should offer some good guidance in that regard. Mike Smith gets a lot of good press around the Creek, sounds like he would be the best place to start for domestic burls. The Aussie burls run about 5 times the cost that John quoted, and are really hard and dense.

Dan

[Bruce Pratt]

Chris,

Check out Highland Hardwoods on Rt 125 between Epping and Brentwood. They have a good variety of thick flatstock; I got some 8/4 x 10" cherry and purpleheart from their "shorts" bin at really good prices. With a glue-block tenon, they have made some nice small bowls. Another good source for burls is Bad Dogs Burls in Belchertown MA. He has both domestic and Aus/NZ imports. Disclaimer: no financial interest in either enterprise.

[John Keeton]

Chris, I have tried the Aussie burls, and while there probably is nothing more striking, they are not for me! Way too hard, and because they are have intrinsic beauty and color (in addition to not being very absorptive), they are not good subjects for dye. I am enjoying the color adventure, and domestic woods seem to make better canvas for that.

I am familiar with briar burl, but I have never turned any. There are a host of domestic burls to be had, but finding them is difficult.

The main reason one sees a lot of BLM burl (and, why it seems more affordable) relates to the nature of BLM in having an abundance of burl, and the practices of the logging industry on the west coast. BLM is typically not harvested for lumber. It is mostly a by product of clear cut harvest. It ends up in chip mills and is ground down for pulp. The problem is that it can cost a small fortune to transport in log form, and someone needs to physically be there to find the logs before they are chipped, salvage them, and transport them to be processed for turning wood. Unlike the exotic burls, which have an industry built around harvesting the burls themselves, there does not seem to be a similar situation for domestic burls. Much of what you see available is simply from someone that is able to find burls from individuals, or scrounges for them at mills, etc.

I wish you luck on your quest!! If I can be of help, send me a PM or email.

[Chris Studley]

@ Bruce,

Highland Hardwoods has been my primary source. I live about 4 miles from there(in Epping). They are great, and so close. the 8/4 and up stock is hit/miss and the price tends to increase a bit as well.

I wish they had more selection in the thicker 10/4+. Also, I'd like to give a burl or two a try.

I will look into Bad Dogs, and will let you know if the Yankee Pine(righteouswoods) folks have anything close to what the website suggests.

[Scott Hackler]

Chris, the only "real" solution for large wood blanks is to turn green wood. Large blanks from a "supplier" are EXPENSIVE to buy and expensive to ship in any quanity. I would pull out the yellow pages and call up a bunch of tree trimmers and ask about getting some larger 3-4 long logs from trees they take down. Most will give it away becuase they have to pay to dump it. A lot of them are more inclined after you first meet them if you hand them a case of beer in exchange! :)

I only buy blanks of an exotic (to me) nature. From burls to curly stuff that we don't have in Kansas. I generally try to "save up" for the symposiums that I will drive to and buy it straight from the sellers booths. Mike Smith's prices at the symposiums have been pretty darn good. The Australian stuff is priced kinda high, but at the shows there isn't shipping...so...

As far as sealing them. Parafin Wax works great, but unless you have found a big wholesale source I wonder about how the price compares with a gallon of Anchorseal (get anchorseal 1 if possible). I want to harvest some local wood around here and seal it up with parafin wax but at $2 a pound + shipping, it's kinda high. The difference between AS (anchorseal) and PW (parafin wax) is that a fully submerged blank in PW will not dry out at all. A blank with AS on the ends or all over, WILL eventually dry out. AS only severly slows the drying.

I would invest in a good chainsaw! :)

[Chris Studley]

Thanks Scott,

the semi local place that I am scoping out seems to also carry the more exotic burls and such. I have seen that you have done some turnings with these. Any advice? Since the burl turning stock is more expensive I'm nervous to jump in unprepared. Also since these items are sealed and then shipped (presumably) I wouldn't expect then to be sopping wet (although still considered "green"). The issue is that it is an Hour away and I don't want to waste a saturday morning going there instead of turning if they seem to be expensive etc. What do you pay per pound (roughly) for say Amboya Burl? (PM if you prefer not to advertise/gloat, or admit how much you spend :))

I know the unique nature of a burl is that no two are alike, but is the "feel" of turning a more expensive burl similar to something more domestic and "Common" like BLM burl? If that is a better way to start with burls, I would give that a shot.

Lastly, Have you ever tried turning a Briar Burl? They guy at the supplier noted that he had a bunch. I know thay make tobacco pipes from them but I always admired the grain of my grandfather's pipes, even as a kid...

[David E Keller]

Good advice so far... I've had pretty good luck on eBay for burl and figured wood, but patience is a virtue on that site unless your wife is more understanding than mine. I've also made some contacts through the penturners site(IAP) that have allowed me to get some Aussie and Asian burls cheaper than I might have otherwise. By far, my largest percentage of free stuff comes from my local arborist... He's recently taken up turning, so that source may dry up!


My local dump does not allow scavenging, so I'm also interested to hear more about the federal law that Brian mentioned. Mike Smith has a nice selection at very reasonable prices. I've also had luck with Oregonburls.com for madrone, claro, and a few other things. Australianburls.com has been good for Aussie stuff although it's pricey. Cory Norgart(SMC member) at UpNorthBurls.net has great prices on black ash burl and a few other things... He's also got cutoffs for same that are quite reasonable, and I've done a number of ornament and minis from that stuff.

I just saw your post above, and I'd definitely recommend starting domestic... They're generally cheaper and much less hard than the Aussie stuff. You mentioned amboyna burl... You don't want to know what a chunk of that stuff would set you back! Even for pens and stoppers, it's fairly pricey, but it's gorgeous stuff and smells heavenly!

My only relationship with any person or site mentioned is related to the fact that they've got some money that I used to have.

[Chris Studley]

My only relationship with any person or site mentioned is related to the fact that they've got some money that I used to have.

Nice...

...and thanks for the info.

[John Keeton]

Given Keller's comments, I should clearly state that my only relationship with any person or site mentioned is related to the fact that they now have WAY MORE OF MY MONEY than I really want to acknowledge, or even to add up!!:eek: As one that buys nearly all the wood I use (and, hope to use), I shudder to think how much I have helped the economy!:o

[Prashun Patel]

For free green wood, I would make friends with local tree services. I have found most workers to be willing to part with a stump or two. In fact, they are often willing to slab off the bark and pith for me. This helps my bad back a lot.

[Jamie Donaldson]

David- that's a rather interesting and refreshing disclaimer! I like it!