Finishes/Storaage

[Wells Jacobson]

I keep wondering if I'm the only one who struggles with the top of the Wipe-on -poly can. I would love to store smaller amounts of WOP, shellac, sanding sealer, Danish oil, linseed oil etc in small poly squeeze bottles. I would greatly appreciate some Creeker guidance as to which finishes can be stored like this or knowing how others keep from struggling with can tops or from repeatedly opening cans for a small amount of product.
Wonderful forum.
Thanks,
Jake

[Robert Newton]

I would try a small plastic bottle, I use empty plastic bottles of soap, mustard, honey, ect for glue, shellac, linseed oil but have not tried for WOP.

[John Keeton]

Wells, I fight the same problem! I look forward to seeing if anyone has tried the squeeze bottle approach.

[Justin Stephen]

I have some of those medium sized squeeze bottles that HF sells with the little red top you push on. I do use them for some finished materials, such as sanding sealer. However, I have been reluctant to even try and put WOP in one for a couple of reasons. One, I doubt the bottles are completely air tight. Two, I was afraid the mere act of pouring WOP from one bottle to another might hasten its demise.

I just keep a flathead screw driver near my can of WOP (Minwax) to open it and so far have not noticed any noticeable problems with it getting dry or sludgy and I have been on the same can for awhile now.

[Sid Matheny]

I use the Ketchup & Mustard bottles from Walmart or the dollar store for a lot of my finishes and glues. Some don't have caps but I have a supply of rubber caps I got somewhere. Never tried putting any of the NC type finishes in them but don't think it would hold them over a few days.

Sid

[Kyle Iwamoto]

I use the small CA bottles for WOP. It really does not slow down the hardening of the WOP in the little bottle, but you can leave the can shut, and that seems to help keep the original can "fresh". I think light may have something to do with curing. I tried some clear small bottles, and the WOP hardened pretty fast. The CA bottles are a little opaque. I figured, if CA won't stick to the bottle, WOP won't.
Ketchup/mustard bottles may work, but I couldn't find any that were not flimsy and cheap looking.

[Richard Allen]

I tried the HF oil cans. The little ones with the squeeze handle and long snout. These worked great for dispensing small amounts but the finish still went bad and the oil cans were impossible to clean enough for a second try. I buy finish in a 1/2 pint container and I expect to lose half. I just figure it is a part of the cost of finish. I will often add some acetone to the finish. If I add the acetone before the stuff starts to gel and it seams to last about twice as long.

The best success I have had is mixing my own finish 1/3 tung oil, 1/3 boiled linseed oil and 1/3 mineral spirits. This hold up for a LOOOOOONG time but it also takes a week to cure. The other plus is that the "hand" when using this finish is the best I have ever felt. There are so many recipes for a home made finish that I could try a new recipe every time I make finish and never make the same finish twice. For example my next try will be walnut oil, urethane oil and lacquer thinner.

[Bill White]

Do the spray products like Bloxigen not work? What am I missing? Is this an oxigenation thing or a chemical reaction that causes the deterioration?
Bill

[Wells Jacobson]

The replies are appreciated.
Bill, it is not that Bloxigen does not work or for that matter that I am having a problem with product degradation. I have wondered about a simple way to use small amounts of finish without always opening the can. Specifically the Watco WOP screw top drives me nuts when I have the can in a vice and am using pliers to get the top off. I have also been unsure if light might be an issue if I use poly squeeze bottles. Certainly others have mitigated that problem ( if it is a problem) with opaque catsup and mustard squeeze bottles-- a fine idea. I'm learning and my projects are small and often call for small amounts of finish. The squeeze bottles of HUT friction polish and Mahoney's walnut oil made me wonder if I could store many other finishes purchased in cans in a similar fashion.

[Jon Nuckles]

I have been using the little squeeze bottles that the Container Store sells in its travel section. They are not completely clear, but you can see the liquid level through the sides and light certainly will pass through. No problems to report so far with WOP or shellac. With the lid unscrewed, you can pour from the Minwax can into the squeeze bottle without spills or the mess on the can that usually accompanies pouring onto a finishing rag. They come with caps for the squeeze spout and cost about a dollar.

[Justin Stephen]

I have been using the little squeeze bottles that the Container Store sells in its travel section. They are not completely clear, but you can see the liquid level through the sides and light certainly will pass through. No problems to report so far with WOP or shellac. With the lid unscrewed, you can pour from the Minwax can into the squeeze bottle without spills or the mess on the can that usually accompanies pouring onto a finishing rag. They come with caps for the squeeze spout and cost about a dollar.

Any chance you could either post a picture of one or link to it on their website? The closest Container Store to me is 20 miles away (which here in DC means a lot longer than 20 minutes) but I do have a Bed, Bath and Beyond local that might have something similar.

[Ryan Baker]

As for the screw-caps, just pry the stupid plastic cover off the top, which will get you down to the metal cap underneath. That can then be unscrewed without the press-down nonsense. You likely still need pliers to get it going, but it is a lot easier without the plastic part in the way. Wipe the top off before you put the cap back on and it will be easier to remove again later.

I have been experimenting with the small squeeze bottles lately for the same reasons. So far it has worked OK, but I haven't really been doing it long enough to draw any final conclusions. I have a feeling that the small bottles I have don't seal well enough to keep the finish fresh, but at least I won't lose the entire can (which now gets a shot of bloxygen before capping).

[Lee Koepke]

I wonder if one of my old Titebond glue bottles would work? I cleaned out and kept the last one for some strange reason ...

[charlie knighton]

i usually buy finishes in quarts, use stones to keep the liquid level close to the top, they sell in sheet/towel shops, usually find them at yard sells

[Marvin Hasenak]

The only method I have found that only partially works is to do all of your turning and when you have a large amount turned start finishing. I will have 10 to 20 pieces ready for finishing before I do any finish work. Then I pour a small amount into a cup, and close the can. I work out of the cup until I am finished or run out. If I applied finish to all of the pieces before I run out, the remaining amount in the cup goes into recycle bottle. The can is only open for a few moments to pour it into the cup, and I will still have some that will go "bad" on me, but not as much as I did before I started this method.

[Brian McInturff]

Since I do a lot of groundwater sampling I have extra 1 liter amber glass jars sometimes. I've used these for my spray finishes like sanding sealer, cat varnishes, acrylics, and lacquers and they work great for that. I have not tried WOP though. I have some acrylic that I mixed over 2 years ago and used it this past weekend and had no problems.

[Jon Nuckles]

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Justin,
The ones I described earlier (the one with the blue liquid in the first photo) are "4 oz. Round Travel Bottle with Spout Translucent" and are item #176090 on the container store website. They sell for 99 cents each. The only finish that I have had any trouble keeping in them is padding lacquer. That softened the plastic after a few months and a bunch of refills. Padding lacquer is mostly shellac and alcohol, but it has other solvents added to create an ideal evaporation rate to allow a french polish finish without the need to use oil or have a perfect technique. I am not sure what it is in the padding lacquer that caused the softening, but I have not experienced softening with shellac and alcohol alone.

They also sell a bottle with a flip up lid that is a little heavier duty (the second picture). It is a little tougher to keep from getting dried finish around the nozzle, but you don't have to keep track of a separate lid. That one is called "8 oz. Flip-Spout Bottle Translucent" and is item #176050. It is $1.19, and they have 1 oz. and 2 oz. sizes as well. I think you could get the same or similar bottles at Bed Bath and Beyond.

[Dave Bunge]

I use one of these bottles from Woodcraft, not with WOP, but with Minwax Antique Oil finish: http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/2000771/2232/Liquid-Storage-Container-8-Ounce.aspx

After a year in the bottle, the finish did get noticably thicker, so either some solvent evaporated through the walls or the finish is starting to cure. But I find the bottle to be much more convenient to use than the can it comes in.

A tip for filling the bottle: Set the full can of finish on the bench top. Put spout from the empty bottle into the can opening (bottle is upside down), hold them together with a little pressure to seal them together. Flip them over so the can is on top (upside down). Squeeze air out of the bottle into the can. Let finish flow from can into bottle to replace air. Repeat until bottle is full enough, then flip can back right side up and remove bottle. Worked well for me, no fuss, no mess. You should be sure what ever bottle you use mates well with the can (air tight seal) before trying, and make the transfer somewhere with good ventilation just in case.

[Carl Civitella]

I just use the regular cans, keeping a paint can opener near buy. Pour out just what i need in a flat plastic lid container so i can easily dip into it with my rag. This way i never contaminate whats in the can buy dipping into it. Been on the same small can of WOP for a long time.

[Justin Stephen]

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Justin,
The ones I described earlier (the one with the blue liquid in the first photo) are "4 oz. Round Travel Bottle with Spout Translucent" and are item #176090 on the container store website. They sell for 99 cents each. The only finish that I have had any trouble keeping in them is padding lacquer. That softened the plastic after a few months and a bunch of refills. Padding lacquer is mostly shellac and alcohol, but it has other solvents added to create an ideal evaporation rate to allow a french polish finish without the need to use oil or have a perfect technique. I am not sure what it is in the padding lacquer that caused the softening, but I have not experienced softening with shellac and alcohol alone.

They also sell a bottle with a flip up lid that is a little heavier duty (the second picture). It is a little tougher to keep from getting dried finish around the nozzle, but you don't have to keep track of a separate lid. That one is called "8 oz. Flip-Spout Bottle Translucent" and is item #176050. It is $1.19, and they have 1 oz. and 2 oz. sizes as well. I think you could get the same or similar bottles at Bed Bath and Beyond.

Thanks, Jon. The top one does look pretty similar to the ones that HF sells, although it is probably smaller. I had been afraid to try and use those for WOP. I think I'll run by BB&B and see if they have something smaller in one of the two styles you posted.

[Leo Van Der Loo]

Wells I had problems even before they came with these new type of closures, not only do these caps get stuck, but also the oils that do Polymerize by reacting with the oxygen in the air going bad/unusable.

The hardening oils like Tung oil or BLO and Walnut oil react with oxygen in the air.

Tung oil and the other oils, cure by Polimerization (molecules combining to form long chains) and oxidation (combining with oxygen from the air)

So you have to keep the container closed and full so that there's no air to react with the oil, when you let it get hard, it's no good anymore, You can not undo the polymerization that has occurred.

The problem with the cans where the oil comes in, is first they are a PIA to open and second, soon there is a large amount of air in that can to react with the oil.

I looked for an easy to open container that also was impervious to air (so plastic was out) my choice was glass with a flip closure.

I have used a glass Maple sirup bottle for quite a while, pour out some oil and fill right up with clean water.(OIL FLOATS ON WATER)

The bottle had a good closure to keep the oil in and air out, I also could easily see how much oil there still is in, the only problem with that bottle was right at the end when almost all the oil had been used it would have water come with the oil because of the shape of that bottle.

Looked for a better shape and found a better one, the Grolsch beer bottle, it has a longer neck than the Sirup so I can get all the oil right till the last drop , it has the quick closure and it is also very close in size to the ½ liter metal can that I usually get, so as soon as I have used a bit from the metal can I can decant all the rest into the bottle, and keep it filled up by adding water. and like I said before, oil floats on water :)

This is my old one, and the new one is the beer bottle http://forum.canadianwoodworking.com/images/smilies/1biggrin.gif

[Reed Gray]

One local turner came up with a good idea. He would use the collapsible plastic bags inside the cardboard wine boxes. You squeeze out the air, and only the finish is inside. I would guess that there are similar fluid type containers for camping.

Hey Leo, nice to have you back.

robo hippy

[Leo Van Der Loo]

Robo I know about the coated plastic bags in the cardboard wine boxes, they are quite large though and I'm not so sure that they will stand up to frequent handling, as they are made for just one time use.

Anyway I have and still do, use my quick closure glass bottle, I just have to make sure I don't drop it on the floor ;-))

It does really work very well and I don't have the Polymerizing Tung oil go bad on me, and it will do so quite quickly if not protected from the air.

I' not really back Robo, still not done with moving as we have been unable to sell our house, we have now two houses with stuff in it and all my turning tools and lathes are at the new place, anyway, we'll be off for a couple of weeks to Cuba, I'm looking forward to that, just love the warm sun and people in Cuba, all the food and drinks included, life is good :D

[Dave Ogren]

I like your idea of the air replacement. Will the water also work with Minwax A.O. in the beer bottle ??

Great to hear from you, Leo, it has been a long time.

Dave

[Chris Barnett]

Had read that the volume of air can be reduced, thus reduce product oxidation, by dropping glass marbles in the can. When the can is empty, recover marbles and start over. Have been looking for an alternate to marbles for a while now. I used small plastic shipping pillows (web orders i.e. Amazon) in cans of water based paint, which seemed to work ok, but was a awful mess.

[Wally Wenzel]

I got some little 2ounce flip top plastic bottles just like the craft paint comes in. Got them from Michaels craft store. Two oz. of WOP goes a long way, they can be cleaned out a couple times and then tossed and they are reasionably priced.
Wally

[Leo Van Der Loo]

Dave I haven,t got a clue if this would work with Minwax A.O., I also do not know what the makeup is of that A.O., I never use any of the Minwax products, they sell things like Tung oil finish, which hasn't got a drip of tung oil in it, so A.O. could very well be just a bunch of volatiles with a bit of wax in it, I had to use the info in MSDS sheets to find out what these finishes have in them, too much bother and I just don't trust these finish makers claims.

I use the pure Tung oil or the Polymerized Tung oil from Lee Valley (I do trust them for telling the truth), these oils will setup if left open to the air, especially the Polymerized Tung oil will harden up quickly.

As I said before I have used keeping the Tung oil in the glass bottles with excellent result for several years already, I will keep doing this unless I find a better way of doing this, ----------- also the price is right:D

[Josh Bowman]

One of my new flat work magizines suggehttp://lh5.googleusercontent.com/public/DoPfvCrc4FWxbtM2lEQR9zQtnwhXjvakExjxDtfg6CaMxoXvik J3xkOChzcGouVRulsh9FjkDGMQIilwsXT446kt2VTlUD89wgRx 05GRZJeoIa-BQ_Fw-ro3wglmhlN3y46n1WzpHyT1XEwZqcQQkl1FoMG7OnPlAMkQBm9 OFBW-jxjS5Wp8sted using one of these. They are about 6 to 8 bucks. I've used one for over 3 years to carry filtered water to work with no problems.

[Leo Van Der Loo]

Could work Josh, but Tung oil isn't water, and for 6 to 8 bucks I'd maybe get a six-pack of beer :p :D

[Mark Hubl]

Definetly hate the crude on the can top of ao and wop. I like to poor out small amounts into 1 or 2 oz portioning cups. I save them from take out meals or get them at a local restaurant supply. For longer storage baby food jars are nice. The seal ok and have nice wide mouth.

Another place to check out is the "American Science and Surplus" web site. Check out the containers section. They have a really nice array of jars and bottles. Plus the have stoppers and other stuff. Prices seem to be good too.

[Reed Gray]

Hmmm....... It has been a while, but I wonder if the collapsible plastic baby bottle liners could be made to work.

robo hippy