I need help designing a box! :)

[Jack Wilson]

I know that sounds like a dumb title, but it's true! I want to build a large box that's good looking on the outside, AND the inside. It will be sort of "oval" shaped with a straight front and back, and the sides will be rounded, though not with a consistent radius. So here is where I get stumped... Front and back will be about 3' long, 20" high and straight, then I need to cleanly and strongly join this to a rounded/half egg shaped, (the pointed half of the egg), side. How do I elegantly create this transition while maintaining a strong secure joint? What do I use for this rounded section? I want to use cherry and I am thinking cherry plywood, but then I need to laminate the inner face with a cherry veneer, really stretching my skills with that one. Any ideas, tips, suggestions or comments?

Thanks!

[George Gyulatyan]

I'd use six layer lamination of 1/8" bending ply. Build the box in two sections, this way you can also veneer both the outside and the inside of the box while you're laminating the plies. Don't know if you have a vacuum press or not, but either way you'll need to build a form to do this.

Here are some pics to show what I mean.

Lamination on form:

These are the components of the layers:
Inner layer (touching the form), cherry veneer, followed by six layers of 1/8" bending ply, followed by another layer of cherry veneer.
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You'll need some kind of caul on top of this (perhaps 1/4" MDF, which does bend OK on gentle radii). If you're going to use clamps, then you'll need to drill holes in the top and bottom ribs so you can clamp the sandwitch to the form.

Here's the form with internal structure exposed:

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You'll need to skin the top with some material that bends easily to complete the form, as you want to make sure your lamination is pressing against a solid surface. You can screw the skin to the ribs, but make sure you patch and smooth over the screws with something. Bondo works great for stuff like this.

Below are the two halves joined together with spline joints (one option).
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If the joints don't mate gracefully, you can use some creative disguises, inlay, solid exposed wood strips between the two halves, are two ideas that come to mind.

HTH.

[Jack Wilson]

Thanks George, WOW, you got the cad out too! I wanted to send along a sketch similar to the bottom one but it takes me hours to draw simple stuff. Any ways, I wasn't as clear as I had hoped to be... the front and back will be solid cherry, only the sides will be ply of some kind. The box needs to be very strong as it will be handled and moved around so the union, or joint between the sides and the front/back needs to very secure, almost or maybe even a sliding dovetail. (good luck!) But maybe it's do-able? And repeatable, if it works I would like to make more of them. So you're thinking bending plywood, and I was thinking 3/4" cherry plywood with a lot of saw kerfs, and a laminated cherry inside face, given the two are you still inclined to recommend bending ply or another option altogether? And no, I don't have any type of vacuum press, no experience with that at all.

[Todd Burch]

Is this box symmetrical? What's the distance between the front and back of the box?

When you say "the box will be handled", what does that mean? How will people be handling a 3' wide x 20" tall x ? deep box? Is this light a chest of some sort? What will it contain, weight-wise? What type of bottom and top? And hardware, and if so, what and where?

[Jack Wilson]

Is this box symmetrical? What's the distance between the front and back of the box?

When you say "the box will be handled", what does that mean? How will people be handling a 3' wide x 20" tall x ? deep box? Is this light a chest of some sort? What will it contain, weight-wise? What type of bottom and top? And hardware, and if so, what and where?

OK Todd, the box will be a casket, the weight it will contain will be that of an adult. Total length about 6'-6" width about 24", height about 18". "Handled" means pall bearers. the bottom will be mortised into the sides. And yes, the box will be symmetrical.

[Jack Wilson]

Todd? Todd are you there? Hello? Todd? Geez I wonder what happened to him?

[Todd Burch]

Todd is here.

Todd was feeling he might have overstepped his welcome when he read "OK Todd..."

Todd has never built a coffin.

Todd needs a concept drawing from Jack to go any further.

[Jack Wilson]

Nope, no bounds overstepped, but I had hoped to maintain discretion. George has already created a concept drawing. I suppose I should have just PM you.

[Todd Burch]

There are companies that will create curved plywood laminations to your specifications. I have a buddy that runs a company that makes wall mounted, retractable hospital bed charts for a living. They initially made their own curved laminations, but now they sub them out.

For a "pointed end of an egg" lamination, you could do the same thing. It would be very strong, once joined to the rest of the box, even in a 1/2" thickness. Outer and inner plys could be cherry and the innards whatever was cheap and of sufficient strength.

For connecting the sides to the ends, you could use a wider loose tenon in mortises, or box joints (prettier), with the first being the much faster choice. You could use a windlass (a few of them) as a clamping mechanism.

These types of boxes are typically well endowed with big, fancy moldings, and if needed, your could very easily incorporate a moulding over your joint seam that would hide any misalignment issues.

After adding a bottom, the box would be pretty stable. I would use a 3/4" bottom, glued and screwed to glued and screwed cleats.

I have another buddy that makes Jewish coffins every so often. He has strict rules to follow for how to assemble those pine boxes. No hardware allowed. I've not seen one or researched it, but you might try googling them to see how they are done for any ideas.

Todd

[Jack Wilson]

Hey Todd, the Jewish box is known as an Aaron box, no metal allowed, that's kind of what I was shooting for. I'm interested in your buddy's deal with the prefab laminations, I have played this over and over in my head and I struggle with trying to make such a large lamination on my own. Gotta go be back later