Hammer K3 consideration

[greg hallquist]

I recently purchased a Hammer A3 31. My shop is very small, although I make furniture that is not. This machine is replacing my Delta DJ 20 and Jet JPW 15 planer which I will sell. The extra room is phenomenal, and this gives me a chance to experience the quality of a Hammer machine.

That being said, I am seriously considering the purchase of a Hammer K3 to replace my delta unisaw. I have no experience with a sliding table saw, so im not sure what size sliding table to get - the 48/31 (rip/sliding table size) is on sale for $3,250, and the 48/48 is $4,000 - a big jump in price.

I am a serios hobbiest, and make pieces for our house - Thomas Moser's Hanneford Hutch, a federal huntboard, our dining room table, etc. intuitively, I believe that a sliding tablesaw will give me more versatility in my shop, and is a smart move. I have been very pleased with my decisions to go with the A3 31, and Festool tools for example - they have given me the ability to achieve a higher level of precision than I had before.

Are there others out there who have taken the plunge with a sliding table saw that have regretted the decision? Others who are thankful they went that way?

Thanks for any input.

Greg

[C Scott McDonald]

Hi Greg,

Welcome to Sawmill Creek.

I have the Hammer K3 winner and would highly recommend it. It has been a fantasic saw. I love the braking it has for the blade. It is the best piece of equipment in my shop currently.

As far as the size you will get as many different answers. A lot of people will tell you that you need a 9' ft or there isnt an point of getting one which I disagree with. I have a 31x31 and it is fine. If i here to buy it again I think I would have got the 48x31 or 48x48. I would buy the Hammer brand again too for that matter. I love the fact I get the cross cut of slider and the ripping against the fence of cabinet saw. If you need to break down plywood sheets you can get a Festool track saw. Honestly I find it easier to break down a sheet with a track saw then square it on the table saw anyway.

Glad to hear you like the A3-31 that is on my list too. I have to admit I have been leaning toward the A3-41 though. I wish they had a helical head for the A3-41.

Good luck on your purchase!

Scott

[David Kumm]

I kept my regular saw when I got the slider and would recommend that if space is available. The size depends on the work you do. For non sheet work the smaller saws are great. I've used a hammond trim saw for years as a small cutoff and tenon saw. Felder used to make a small saw in their 7 series that was really sweet. Wish they still did. Dave

[greg hallquist]

Hi Greg,

Welcome to Sawmill Creek.

I have the Hammer K3 winner and would highly recommend it. It has been a fantasic saw. I love the braking it has for the blade. It is the best piece of equipment in my shop currently.

As far as the size you will get as many different answers. A lot of people will tell you that you need a 9' ft or there isnt an point of getting one which I disagree with. I have a 31x31 and it is fine. If i here to buy it again I think I would have got the 48x31 or 48x48. I would buy the Hammer brand again too for that matter. I love the fact I get the cross cut of slider and the ripping against the fence of cabinet saw. If you need to break down plywood sheets you can get a Festool track saw. Honestly I find it easier to break down a sheet with a track saw then square it on the table saw anyway.

Glad to hear you like the A3-31 that is on my list too. I have to admit I have been leaning toward the A3-41 though. I wish they had a helical head for the A3-41.

Good luck on your purchase!

Scott

Scott,

I was considering the A3 41 as well, but an A3 31 with very few hours on it presented itself to me for $1,700, so I jumped on it. Regarding the helical cutter head, I was really focused on that too until I made some passes on the A3 with straight blades - UNBELIEVABLE!! I made passes AGAINST the grain on tiger maple and quilted mahogany, and voila - no tear out and achieved a silky smooth finish - I was shocked.
I was sold immediately.

I was thinking the 48/31 - it's in my price range, and I hope it satisfies my needs - I just don't have any benchmark to operate from. I hope there are a lot of responses to this post so I can sort through and make a decision.

Ideally, I'd like to buy a used machine first, and see what's what.

Greg

[Van Huskey]

Scott,

I was considering the A3 41 as well, but an A3 31 with very few hours on it presented itself to me for $1,700, so I jumped on it. Greg

You need to take some pics and post a gloat thread, excellent catch!

[John P Clark]

Buy the K3 and don't look back. I bought one about 18 months ago, and kept my unisaw for 12 months before I sold it. In the 12 months, I turned on the unisaw about 3 times. Depending on your space, I would get the K3 with the perform package, just can not beat the 80" stroke of the sliding table. Just my two cents as a happy K3 owner

[Eric McCune]

Buy the longest slider that will fit in your shop. I have an 80 inch slide and I would love a 9 foot but it wouldn't work in my shop. Once you use a slider you will wonder how you lived without it.

[greg hallquist]

Here are a couple of pics of my small shop and my Delta Unisaw.
Also, the before and after with my Jointer and Planer, and the A3 31.

http://i1235.photobucket.com/albums/ff424/hallquistg/Jan2012059.jpg

http://i1235.photobucket.com/albums/ff424/hallquistg/Jan2012070.jpg

http://i1235.photobucket.com/albums/ff424/hallquistg/a96cd41c.jpg

[Rod Sheridan]

[ATTACH]218959[/ATTACH

]Hi, I have a B3 Winner with the 49" slider and 31" rip capacity.

I ordered it with the following options

- scoring saw
-fine adjust for rip fence
- dado capability
- fold away bracket for the power feeder
- full size table to the right side
- outrigger with fence and precision mitre index system


I made my own mobility kit based upon the Hammer unit.

I find that size I ordered is perfect for my small shop and handles all the work required. It can crosscut a sheet of plywood, straight line rip a piece up to 48" long or 8 feet with the straight line jig.

Adding a mounting rail to the rear of the saw will allow you to use a table extension from your A3-31 (which I also own).

I've included a drawing of the machine size.................Rod.

[Eric McCune]

straight line rip a piece up to 48" long or 8 feet with the straight line jig.

Hi Rod, Is this straight line jig something you made or something from Felder? I'm interested in your approach to straight line ripping when it exceeds the length of your slider.

Thanks,
Eric

[Jeff Hamilton Jr.]

Hi Greg,

I bought a MM CU300 with the 5'6" slider a few years ago. There are many things I love about having a slider and some I don't. In my opinion, it is not as "intuitive" to cut small pieces as was my old (new) craftsman hybrid cabinet saw. Crosscutting can't be matched however.

Like many others will tell you, and as I've said before, I wish I had dropped the extra thou for the 8 footer when I bought. It's not often that I need that extra length (I use the EZ smart system when I'm breaking down 4x8 sheets), but there are many functions that would be easier if you have the extra length and can leave the crosscut platform on the front and have your miter on the rear. You can do it with the shorter slider, but it's a bit of a squeeze. Since you are considering 4' as your longest, I'd say DEFINATELY go with that. That seems real short to me.

Finally, with this terrible economy, I'd really look hard for used machines. I paid over $10K for mine just 3.5 years ago and I see people dumping almost new, identical machines for $6-7K. There are screamin' deals out there if you are patient.

Good luck.

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi Rod, Is this straight line jig something you made or something from Felder? I'm interested in your approach to straight line ripping when it exceeds the length of your slider.

Thanks,
Eric

Hi Eric, the part number is 500-110.

Watch at about 3:45 in this video for the jig in action.........Rod

http://www.hammerusa.com/us-us/video/hammer-c3-31.html

[Mike Ruggeri]

Go for a slider and don't look back. I missed my Unisaw at first, but then once I started working with the slider I really couldn't see going back to the Unisaw (and I loved my Unisaw). Whenever I can now, I put work on the slider so I can make cuts with the work clamped down and my hands well away from the blade - really a great thing.

As others have said, get the longest slider possible. My shop is basically the side of a one car garage and I have a lot of tools fit in there and am still able to have a 8 foot MM slider. For me, I have tools like my slider, bandsaw, and router table on mobile bases. The majority of the time I don't have to move things but if I have a long cut or something wide then I might have to move some things around (no big deal for me as I am only a hobbyist and it only takes a few minutes to move things). Also, I usually don't keep the big outrigger table on my slider (takes up a bunch of floor space) but keep it on a wall mounted rack so I can put it on in a minute if I need it. I find the "small" miter guage pretty good for most work and it takes up less floor space. It might be worthwhile to post a layout of your shop and have members here give you ideas on placement of tools to fit things in.

Lastly, I agree with others to look for a used saw. There are some good deals out there now for high end hobbyist saws.

Mike

[howard s hanger]

I just ordered last week the K3 48x48. I do almost no case work of any size so I am having them cut down the rip capacity to 31" so i will effectively have a 48x31. They don't make that machine for some reason. I also use my Festool TS 75 so if I need to somehow break down a sheet of plywood, I'll just use that first. I also got the mobility kit and got them to include 2-310mm blades. I'm very excited about getting it and I'm just going to have to cool me jets until March. :mad: I have never seen one in person so I'm going on faith that everyone says it's the bee's knees....

[Rod Sheridan]

Congrats Howard, what options did you order with your machine?

Regards, Rod.

[howard s hanger]

Lets see... It now comes with the slider side table. That helps. I got the mobility kit, the rip shoe, two 12 inch blades, the fine adjustment for the rip fence and I'm thinking about the eccentric hold down clamp but not sure it's worth it. Any other suggestions?

[Brian Cosgrove]

Greg, was the A3-31 you got the one that was on craigslist in Philly for awhile? I also have an A3-31 and love it. I also have a K3 with the 78" slider. I like it alot, however, may be selling it shortly to upgrade to the B3 perform with longer slider. I have never heard anyone regret getting a long slider, but have heard many wish they had gone longer. I cannot say enough about the Hammer/Felder product and their staff, specifically my salesman Geoff at Felder east. Good luck.

Brian

[David Kumm]

If you are considering eccentric clamps, some work better than others. Some tend to push the stock away so they are not real helpful if behind the fence. For the ultimate clamps go to www.airtightclamps.com (http://www.airtightclamps.com) Dave

[greg hallquist]

I found a used K3 from a buddy - 48x48 with blades, mobility kit, Dado set, router table, hold down clamp, extra 31 inch rail if I need it, and other extras.
The saw was purchased in 2008, and is fantastic shape. $2,375.

I sold my unisaw, and am selling my Rockwell HD Shaper. The two sales will give me all but $300 towards the K3.
I'm stoked to say the least.

[Jim Becker]

I started with a J/P...then a nice bandsaw....and then bought my slider. ZERO regrets on any of these items. My slider is such a pleasure to work with. Are there some things I've needed to learn/re-learn? Yes. It works differently than a North American table saw for certain operations. And I've built a few jigs, too...which a slider actually lends itself to nicely. But the quality of cut, safety and repeatability is just wonderful. I work mostly with solid stock, too, although my recent tack trunk commissions do take advantage of the superb ability of a slider to handle sheet goods. (My gear is MiniMax...I'm also a Festool fan and utilize a lot of their tools, both in and out of the shop)

[Gregory Gurka]

I am new to sawmill and need to get up to speed. I too am looking @ the Hammer-K3 . but have more questions then answer. How is you saw working out ? ( I guess it's almost 1 year)
I have my shop on one side of a 3 car garage , everything is mobile -so I can move the cars outside and use the full 3 car space if needed.
My main concern besides $ is changing over from my Powermatic TS to the Hammer K3 ,is that I will not be able to use all the saw blades (+Dados ) & jigs I have. Also how does one handle very small pieces .(I now use a small cross cut sled & hold-downs ) to keep the fingers clear.
Sorry for rambling - like I said more questions then answer! By the way- you are a lot braver then me-I could not buy a tool without some "hands on experience"
Thanks , greg. Chandler AZ.

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi Gregory, you can have all your blades bored out for the Hammer, it cost me under $20 per blade to have that done. Your dado won't be of any use to you, the K3 only accepts up to a 180mm dado, I bought an FS Tools set for my B3.

You'll handle very small pieces the same way you presently handle them.

I've owned the B3 Winner with comfort package for 3 years now, you couldn't convince me to go back to a cabinet saw.

I suggest you consider the B3, having the tilting spindle, sliding table shaper is incredible...........Regards, Rod.

[Ryan Mooney]

The slider opens up a lot of interesting options in work holding and new methods of doing things. Some of them are obvious, but many are not and figuring them out can require a bit of spelunking as much of the knowledge doesn't seem to have made it over to this side of the pond. I've had my saw for about a year as well and can honestly say I'm still figuring out a lot. There is a lot more to using it "well" than a traditional table saw, a lot of things just got easier and as I figure out better ways to do things it progresses from there :D

The yahoo "Felder Owners Group" mailing list is an invaluable source of ideas and methods so its worth lurking over there anyway :D

A few of the slider related things that have shown up there in the last month or so are linked below and show some interesting work holding jigs:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DqzVglze9Nk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vg3YZQx-0qc (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vg3YZQx-0qc&list=UUp5k3S1UsfMeJxVVCHyYpYA&index=90)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BG9LRnB9-Hg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BG9LRnB9-Hg&list=UUp5k3S1UsfMeJxVVCHyYpYA&index=93)

[Ray Newman]

Ryan M: the last video of the mitering jig attached to the sldiing table Is the cat's meow!

In the that video, a good eye will spot a shop-farircated attachment by the rear of the blade to push the cut offs away from the blade. Intersting idea. Wonder how it is held in place, yet allowing easy and quick removal -- rare earth magnets??

Thanks for the links!

[Rod Sheridan]

Ryan M: the last video of the mitering jig attached to the sldiing table Is the cat's meow!

In the that video, a good eye will spot a shop-farircated attachment by the rear of the blade to push the cut offs away from the blade. Intersting idea. Wonder how it is held in place, yet allowing easy and quick removal -- rare earth magnets??

Thanks for the links!

255046

Hi, those sort of off-cut deflectors are available commercially from several suppliers, and they are attached to the machine with built in magnets.

I've included a photo of the Felder # 420-260 deflector.

Regards, Rod.

[Ryan Mooney]

Hi, those sort of off-cut deflectors are available commercially from several suppliers, and they are attached to the machine with built in magnets.

I've included a photo of the Felder # 420-260 deflector.

Regards, Rod.

Lots of folks have made them as well, I used two magnets from an old computer hard drive. Works like a charm.

I haven't made the mitering jig (only having seen the video < a week ago) but its a lot easier looking than what I was doing before for sure :D I've been pondering how to adapt it to non 90 angles, seems like it would be fairly easy to do, just have the rear fence pivot...

One other thing that the outrigger gives you on the slider is a hyper accurate miter saw. The main problem is that to cut complementary angles with the stock outrigger you have to move the fence from the front to the back and re-setup which takes a couple of minutes and introduces some more chance for error. A jig like that pretty much completely eliminates that. Having the outrigger gives it plenty of support as well so you can make it larger than I would for a traditional saw (larger also == more accurate in this case I think).

[Rich Riddle]

You can have all your blades bored out for the Hammer, it cost me under $20 per blade to have that done. Your dado won't be of any use to you, the K3 only accepts up to a 180mm dado, I bought an FS Tools set for my B3.

Where did you have your blades bored for the Hammer? Are you saying that one may purchase a non-Hammer dado that fits the K3 model? Thanks.

[Gregory Gurka]

[QUOTE=Rod Sheridan;2067907]" you can have all your blades bored out for the Hammer, it cost me under $20 per blade to have that done"

Rod , thanks for the info, When you had you arbor size increased to 30mm did you also have the two holes drilled in the blade to control the brake action ? greg.
.

[Rod Sheridan]

Where did you have your blades bored for the Hammer? Are you saying that one may purchase a non-Hammer dado that fits the K3 model? Thanks.

Hi Rich, any tooling company can bore your blades for you, I live in Toronto so I used FS Tools.

I'm sure there are companies in Virginia that do that.

I purchased the 6" dado for my saw from FS Tools, they bored it to fit my machine. It also fits my shaper as I have the 30mm and 1 1/4" spindles.

FS Tools make really nice tooling, and they are available in the USA.

If you want the drilling diagram for the blades send me a PM with your e-mail address and I'll forward it you......I could also photograph the dado set if you wish.....Rod.

[Rod Sheridan]

[QUOTE=Rod Sheridan;2067907]" you can have all your blades bored out for the Hammer, it cost me under $20 per blade to have that done"

Rod , thanks for the info, When you had you arbor size increased to 30mm did you also have the two holes drilled in the blade to control the brake action ? greg.
.

Greg, yes of course you need to have the two pin holes bored as well, that was included in the $20.

It's amazing how precise the fit of the blades is on the Hammer compared to the old 5/8" hole on conventional saws..........Rod.

[Mike Stelts]

I'm trying not to create a new thread on an old topic, and this is the closest. I'm considering the Felder B3, replacing a Unisaw and a Delta 3Hp 3/4" shaper. I'm getting stuck on three points that I'd like help on, then I'll add a bonus question:

1) Do I need a ripping capacity greater than 30"? It seems like anything wider would be a sheet, which would sit on the slider. so all I lose is cutting a sheet in half. (Due to the placement of posts in the shop, it would be difficult, but not impossible, to find a space for wider.)
2) Is there value in a slider longer than 8'? I've never owned a 4x10 sheet, which is the only scenario I can think of. (I have no restriction on length, with 16' on either side of the blade.)
3) Does the slider get in the way when you're ripping a long 2x4? It looks like you can't feed the wood with the slider sticking out on the left side.

Bonus
Are there similar saw/shaper combos I should be considering?

Many thanks,
Mike

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi Mike, I've owned a B3 for 11 years now.

I have the short stroke slider that will crosscut a standard sheet, I don't need more than that. This yields a B3 with cabinet saw ergonomics, best of both worlds.

I have the 30" (aprox) rip capacity, I've never need more, and when I owned a General cabinet saw I cut it down to 32" rip capacity.

regards, Rod.

[Derek Cohen]

Mike, I have a K3 with 31” rip and 49” wagon/slider. I work with solid wood and no panel goods. I have not wanted larger.

Regards from Perth

Derek