Help with first plane

[Bill Sherman]

I'm looking at the LV bevel up Jack plane as my first plane (not counting cheap Stanley block plane from big box) and the LV BU smoother as the second plane. These planes cost more than I would like to spend but I want quality. Would the Wood River V3 planes be a reasonable alternative? Are there any big differences between BU and BD? Thanks for any guidance you could provide a newbe.

Bill

[Joey Chavez]

I bought my first nice plane just last month, like you only having a cheap big box block plane. All the research I did kept leading me back to the LV LA Jack and I couldn't be happier. The versatility has been amazing when you buy the extra blades. I bought the toothed blade and 38 degree blade to start. The first work I did was roughing out a slab with the toothed blade, excellent. Later on I had to trim a small piece of stock to fit and my natural tendancy was to do it at the table saw until I realized that was a use for this jack, I put the 25 degree blade in and squared/trimmed it down on a makeshift shooting board. Just the other night I took the 38 degree blade, rehoned with a slight camber and the finish I was leaving on a scrap piece of walnut was better than any sanding job I have done. A roughing, general purpose and smoothing plane all in one! I do have experience now with a BD plane after I restored an old fore plane I got for Christmas. As proud as I am having done that and may have a BD plane or two in the future, the Veritas BU planes will be my go to planes. It was a nice Christmas, with gift cards etc. I was able to buy the BU Smoother, and Jointer, received just yesterday. But if money is an object and you if you can only have one plane, I can't imagine anything being better than the Veritas LA Jack.

[Archie England]

I guess that's a solid first step! It's not what I did--but I did things all backwards, anyway! And, there's way too much personal, plus functional need for me to any longer suggest that one-plane-fits all. If there was a one plane--I suppose it would be a low angle block. But.....

Think of your projects as needing the Schwarz concept--coarse, medium, and fine. Some planes are needed to attack and plane off large amounts of wood. Older terminology for this was, the foreplane. Typically a #5, 6, or 7 could accomplish such work. Add to that the 5 1/2, and you've got choices. Personally, I like the 5, 5 1/2, or 6 for this. And, I've got no experience with a BU because my stable of vintage planes continue to handle everything--but I've got a stocked stable.

Specific point here: I've got three #5s--one takes fine shaving, the next a tad thicker, and the third, heavy shavings. I have two #6s and a 5 1/2 set up the same way. That's why I can't envision one plane doing it all. There's a lot of fiddling to get a plane (that's vintage, now) to perform at a particular level.

Jointing can be done, based on length and width, by a 5 1/4, 5, 5 1/2, 6, 7, or 8. They all work: the 7 and 8 work the best; the 6 is rather great for me, too. So...you've still got choices. BTW, I can't imagine jointing longer, wider boards without a 7 or 8!! Just me. BTW, a premium plane for the 7 or 8 could save you a mess of time. Buy right, here!

Smoothing work can be done well by #3, 4, 4 1/2, and maybe 5s, too. Here's where I think a premium plane is absolutely necessary. Here's where we need the finest shavings. I have #4s and 4 1/2s but sometimes the plane that best tames the grain beast is a #3! Sweet little planes, these are. I work harder and not necessarily faster or better with a 4 1/2, so bigger may not be better for smoothing (very much, IMO). So...you've still got choices.

Hope this helps to address your concerns that one or two planes will do it all. I don't think so. But from what I've read, the BU LA Jack is truly a smart, fast track step for NEW hand tool users. Just remember that sometimes its takes more than one bullet to bring down the big game. So, don't skimp!

[Dave Beauchesne]

I'm looking at the LV bevel up Jack plane as my first plane (not counting cheap Stanley block plane from big box) and the LV BU smoother as the second plane. These planes cost more than I would like to spend but I want quality. Would the Wood River V3 planes be a reasonable alternative? Are there any big differences between BU and BD? Thanks for any guidance you could provide a newbe.

Bill

Bill: are you saying you want two planes; the LV BU Jack as first choice and the LV BU Smoother as second choice?

I was mis - informed and bought the smoother first - just buy the jack - you can shoot with it, plus buy extra blades as Joey did - a toother, and a couple different blades @ different angles gives you three planes ( kind of ) for a reasonable price.

The Wood River planes look OK and they look like they are striving to ' get better '; you CANNOT beat LV or LN quality and service for the price, IMHO.

Good luck;

Dave Beauchesne

[Mark Dorman]

My first plane was the LV bevel up jack and my second was a Stanley low angle block plane. I managed to build my bench and a saw bench with them. Then as time ,money and need worked out I bought a smoother then a jointer. The Jack is very versatile start with that and the block. IMHO
Also check the sticky notes at the top. I don't know about the wood river brand. Do a search on here and see what pops up.
Mark

[Carl Beckett]

Hi Bill,

In my opinion, you are on the right track. A long time ago I started out with some Record planes (decent - I will call them mid range planes). They served me well and I just recently put a Pinnacle blade/chipper in it and cannot imagine how it could do better (I also tried this same blade in an old Bailly, and also in one of the Groz planes I got from Woodcraft for $16 clearance (a $80 bladeset in a $16 plane body, go figure).

The Record was my favorite. But I digress - I just want to say if you can at all do it, start out with the high end planes (at least one). Its a different experience using a plane that is all tuned up and working well, vs trying to learn how to do this properly at the same time as learning how to use it. By buying in at the high end you will get there quickly (if not right out of the box)

So I built myself up to it. Ok for learning, but a lot of time and suffering spent until I was up the learning curve, and the biggest problem was that I didnt know what the end state should be like - so I never knew if this was the best it could do or if it was possible to get better.

Get that Veritas LA Jack right up front. I may get one for myself just because, even though my other planes are now working extremely well (I see how this becomes a sickness....). By going all in up front, you will know what it is SUPPOSED to be like. Then you can spend time digging old ones out of junk drawers and rehabbing them, knowing what is possible.

$.02

[Jim Matthews]

The Wood River product is a hand-plane shaped object.

The LV or LN products will work, right out of the box and are made in North America by high-wage workers that care about their reputation.
The willingness of a large retailer to deliberately undercut an American compan (http://www.finewoodworking.com/item/22352/lie-nielsen-toolworks-and-woodcraft-part-ways)y that helped keep handtool woodworking alive speaks volumes about their motives.

I'm done buying knockoffs that make CEO profits fatter on the backs of what amounts to slave labor.

If we all make the cheap choice, that will soon be the only choice.
It comes to this; while quality costs, it also lasts.

[Archie England]

the wood river product is a hand-plane shaped object.

The lv or ln products will work, right out of the box and are made in north america by high-wage workers that care about the name on the box.
The willingness of a large retailer to deliberately undercut an american company that helped keep handtool woodworking alive speaks volumes about their motives.

I'm done buying knockoffs that make ceo profits fatter on the backs of what amounts to slave labor.

If we all make the cheap choice, that will soon be the only choice.
It comes to this; while quality costs, it also lasts.


here! Here!!!

[Chris Griggs]

Actually, geopolitical issues aside, the Woodriver planes function very very well. With the utmost respect Jim (and I do mean that), though I agree with you for the most part, I must say that to call them "hand plane shaped objects" is misleading. They're not as nice to use/adjust as a Lee Valley or Lie-Nielsen, but they work faultlessly out of the box with only a honing of the blade. Whether we like it or not, that is the simple fact of the matter.

All that said, I own exactly one Woodriver plane (2nd generation No.6), which I really like, but probably would not by another, partially for the geopolitcial reason (which have been discussed at nauseam), but also because from a purely function-value based perspective they're prices have gotten high enough that what you give up when you chose you purchase one over an LV is no longer worth it. That is, to get quality control to the point where the WoodRiver planes could truly compete with premium in terms of functional quality, the cost of manufacturing gets to the point where the cost advantage is pretty minimal. I'm not surprised or bothered by the fact that they went up in price - you do after all get what you pay for - just sorta thinking out loud here, about if they might be moving out of the hole in the market they were developed to fill.

Anyway, long story short, buy the LV BU jack, no question and then take things from there.

[James Taglienti]

The Wood River product is a hand-plane shaped object.

The LV or LN products will work, right out of the box and are made in North America by high-wage workers that care about their reputation.
The willingness of a large retailer to deliberately undercut an American compan (http://www.finewoodworking.com/item/22352/lie-nielsen-toolworks-and-woodcraft-part-ways)y that helped keep handtool woodworking alive speaks volumes about their motives.

I'm done buying knockoffs that make CEO profits fatter on the backs of what amounts to slave labor.

If we all make the cheap choice, that will soon be the only choice.
It comes to this; while quality costs, it also lasts.

So youve used the woodriver planes then?
Im getting tired of this "we owe it to our country to buy american made wood planes."
Also the outrage that someone would make a similar plane overseas or in mexico- really? The purpose of any company is to make money. When LN and LV go not-for-profit, let me know.

[Jim Koepke]

The BU Jack is a good choice for a versatile first plane. There is a bit of ambiguity when this subject is discussed since LV lists two very different planes that fall into this category. My suggestion would be to get one with flat sides for shooting.

For many years my selection of planes didn't include a BU Jack. My main reason to buy one was for a shooting plane. It excels at shooting. It also works well on flat surfaces and edge work, but most of the time my BD planes are used for such work.

It likely has a lot to do with my working mostly soft woods. Sometimes they have tough grain, but soft woods are not as tough to deal with like some of the hardwoods.

jtk

[Don Dorn]

I agree with the choice of the LV Jack first. It does most things well and when you get others, this one will always stay in your stable. AS a smoother, I vote for the Low Angle smoother as it's big enough to smooth and small enough for some shaping work. However, if you went with the BU Smoother, it shares blades with the Jack.

I'll go one step further - even though I have a nice #8 Baily with a premium blade, I'll never part with my LV Bevel Up Jointer. It's incredibly flat, has a massive blade, very easy to set and takes very thin shavings which come in handy when you want both flat and minimal tearout.

With those three planes, you would be set for bench planes in my opinion. A good block and a couple specialty planes (rabbet, plough, etc) that are right for you and there is almost nothing you can't get done with them.

[bob blakeborough]

Another vote for the LV LA Jack as a first plane... Great, versatile tool that will always have a place in your shop! Fantastic company to deal with as well. Lee Valley has proven time and time again that they are second to none and truly are there for their customers and stand behind their products. IMHO (as well as many others) they are well worth the extra bucks up front when you compare the long term value against the less expensive new alternatives...

That said, there are always functional options out there if your finances dictate, but saving a bit longer for exactly what you want is always a reasonable approach...

[Jim Matthews]

So youve used the woodriver planes then?
Yes, back in 2009. Perhaps they've improved since then.



Im getting tired of this "we owe it to our country to buy american made wood planes."
I'm tired of large retailers undercutting their suppliers. This is how Walmart does business, and it's a race to the bottom exchanging price for quality.

The fact that the Quangsheng castings are made directly from Lie Nielsen bodies is what chaps my hide - it's an intentional copy, down to cosmetics.
Lie Nielsen spent how many years essentially reclaiming the craft from the dustbin of history. To have a retailer willing collude in the knock-off of this product, and participate in a quality control experiment (when are they "close enough"?) is outrageous.


Also the outrage that someone would make a similar plane overseas or in mexico- really? The purpose of any company is to make money. When LN and LV go not-for-profit, let me know.
This isn't about profitability, until Lie Nielsen and Lee Valley start chaining their staff to their workstations and paying $8/day.

Here's my beef - North American workers have higher costs of living and North American companies must handle industrial waste responsibly.
I lived in the PROC from 1989-1991, standards of living are VERY different there.

In a nutshell, buying this stuff, when you have a choice will result in fewer choices.

Spare me the Libertarian theology.

[Bill Sherman]

Thanks guys for all of the responses. Sorry it took so long to get back to you but I had to drive across town to Woodcraft. A funny thing happened while there...... I ended up buying the Lie-Nielsen Bevel Up Jack plane (no. 62). It turned out to be very close in price to the LV by the time you pay shipping from LV. Pluss I got about and hour worth of instruction on how to sharpen the iron and set up and use the plane (priceless). I also bought a set of Norton stones, honing guide, and Camelia oil so I have completly blown the budget ......but I have a very nice plane! Now I have to build a bench.................... ;)

Bill

[Sean Richards]

I have used the big LV bevel up smoother a bit and I don't really care for it. No complaints about quality or price but for me I prefer a smaller plane as a smoother and preferably one with a bailey style depth adjustment. I can see the use for the low angle jack but I use a #6 (actually a 606 but either is good) for the same sort of work and it works fine for me.

If you want a personal opinion FWIW I prefer the bailey pattern planes possibly because that is what I am used to. Functionally as long as they are sharp I don't really think there is much difference. From a manufacturers viewpoint the bevel up planes cost less to produce.

[Chris Griggs]

Thanks guys for all of the responses. Sorry it took so long to get back to you but I had to drive across town to Woodcraft. A funny thing happened while there...... I ended up buying the Lie-Nielsen Bevel Up Jack plane (no. 62). It turned out to be very close in price to the LV by the time you pay shipping from LV. Pluss I got about and hour worth of instruction on how to sharpen the iron and set up and use the plane (priceless). I also bought a set of Norton stones, honing guide, and Camelia oil so I have completly blown the budget ......but I have a very nice plane! Now I have to build a bench.................... ;)

Bill

Congrats dude! Off to a great start...

[Sean Richards]

Thanks guys for all of the responses. Sorry it took so long to get back to you but I had to drive across town to Woodcraft. A funny thing happened while there...... I ended up buying the Lie-Nielsen Bevel Up Jack plane (no. 62). It turned out to be very close in price to the LV by the time you pay shipping from LV. Pluss I got about and hour worth of instruction on how to sharpen the iron and set up and use the plane (priceless). I also bought a set of Norton stones, honing guide, and Camelia oil so I have completly blown the budget ......but I have a very nice plane! Now I have to build a bench.................... ;)

Bill

Good choice and sounds like you got some good advice on sharpening and set up as well.

[Jim Koepke]

I ended up buying the Lie-Nielsen Bevel Up Jack plane (no. 62).

That is what's in my shop. You may want to make or buy a hot dog for it. The hot dog really helps when using it for a shooting plane.

jtk

[jerry nazard]

Bill,

You done good! Have fun with the plane and your bench project!!

-Jerry

[Bill Sherman]

I know ......No pictures,didn't happen ........ so here she is ..........


218875

[Dale Cruea]

I have several BD Stanley type planes. Older Baileys and some LN. I like them for surfacing a board and doing edge work.
Earlier this week my new LV BU jack arrived.
It appears to be a great plane. Feels different than a BD plane but it does work well. I have just the 25 degree blade so far.
I bought the plane for end grain work. BD just wasn't getting it for me. The BU jack works great on end grain so far. I use it on a shooting board.
IF I could buy just 1 plane now, I would get the BU jack and invest in the other blades as I could afford them.
This will not cover all of your planing needs but it should cover enough to get you by for awhile.
If you get into some nasty, curly grain I am told by many that this will be the plane you need.

The Woodriver planes got some good reviews I have read, but nothing in the LN or LV range.

[bob blakeborough]

Sweet plane man! You made an excellent choice. Everyone was talking about LV, but LN is definitely in the same league without any doubt whatsoever...

And to Jim Matthews... I couldn't agree more with you! Now I totally believe everyone has free will to buy whatever they want from wherever they want, but the simple truth is that they are going to end up laying in the bed they made for themselves sooner or later.

[Bob Jones]

I would highly recommend getting a decent old Stanley #5 and cambering the blade. You should be able to get one for $30-40 tuned and ready to go from a member of this page. Use it for rough sawn stuff before you use your BU plane. FYI - your plane will work as a jointer if you pay attention.

My bias - I like BD planes because that is what I used first. I have the LV BUJ and I really like it, but mostly use it on my shooting board. It is a very versatile plane.