A backsaw rehab - gotta get that pile of saws cleaned up :)

[Pat Zabrocki]

I have a ton of saws, no actually, I have a problem that may require a 12 step program but anyway I've decided to clean these guys up. I'll keep some and some will have to go. Here is one of my favorites. It is a 16 inch Warranted Superior... Okay its a Lakeside by Montgomery Ward but it just cleaned up so good that I had to post. The saw has a 16 inch blade with 3 3/8 under the spine and 12 points per inch. It is filed rip with a pretty agressive rake, almost no fleam and very little set. It cuts very very (did I say very) fast and very straight. The handle is made of beach and has some of the best formed horns I've seen in quite a while and they make the saw just sit perfectly in my hand. So below are some pictures. I should have taken some before shots but frankly it was in good condition anyway. thanks for looking - Pat

[Pat Zabrocki]

Here's some more pics
cheers
pat
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[Jim Neeley]

Looks sweet, Pat!!!

[Chris Vandiver]

Very nice looking saw!

[Chris Griggs]

That's a beaut Pat. Keeping sharing your addiction with us! Be curious to know the specifics of the angles you filed it at?

[Michael Ray Smith]

Looks great! Maybe one day I'll be good enough at sharpening saws to post a close-up like that of one that I've sharpened! How did you refinish the handle?

[Joshua Byrd]

How did you refinish the handle?

x2 on the handle. That is one sexy-smooth finish you've got on there. I totally dig it.

[Mike Holbrook]

Nice job Pat!
I almost wish I had not seen this restore. I think I have been enabled.
The saw reminds me of my Gramercy Sash saw also very fast. Since I bought a combination saw I still have room in my stable for a Carcase & Tenon saw right?


That looks like a Gramercy Saw Vise. Rather than moving off topic I will make another post about it and how you sharpened it.

[Bill White]

Good on ya, but you're not gettin' my W. Butcher.
Bill

[Pat Zabrocki]

Looks sweet, Pat!!!

thanks Jim!

[Pat Zabrocki]

Very nice looking saw!

thanks Chris

[Pat Zabrocki]

That's a beaut Pat. Keeping sharing your addiction with us! Be curious to know the specifics of the angles you filed it at?

thanks Chris,
The rake is about 8 degrees but maybe 10 at the front which is actually kind of good because it starts easier that way. Fleam is maybe 1 or 2 degrees. I don't do the sloped gullet thing yet. I'll wait on the fancy tricks once I feel I'm doing the basics well, which I think will be soon.
pat

[Pat Zabrocki]

Looks great! Maybe one day I'll be good enough at sharpening saws to post a close-up like that of one that I've sharpened! How did you refinish the handle?
thanks Mike,
the handle was in pretty good shape to start with but was over done with lacquer. I removed the lacquer and lightly sanded, then I put a few coats of amber shellac on it and rubbed out between with an abrassive pad. Finished things up with some wax. I don't really like the over done finishes. The wax gives it an "old" feel like it has been in someone's hand for a few decades. I've tried qualasole on a handle or two (the miter saw in my other post for example) and I really like that too. it seems to go on a little easier.
thanks again.
pat

[Pat Zabrocki]

x2 on the handle. That is one sexy-smooth finish you've got on there. I totally dig it.

Thanks Joshua!

[Pat Zabrocki]

Nice job Pat!
I almost wish I had not seen this restore. I think I have been enabled.
The saw reminds me of my Gramercy Sash saw also very fast. Since I bought a combination saw I still have room in my stable for a Carcase & Tenon saw right?


That looks like a Gramercy Saw Vise. Rather than moving off topic I will make another post about it and how you sharpened it.
Thanks Mike, glad I could give a nudge further down the slope!

[Pat Zabrocki]

thanks Chris,
The rake is about 8 degrees but maybe 10 at the front which is actually kind of good because it starts easier that way. Fleam is maybe 1 or 2 degrees. I don't do the sloped gullet thing yet. I'll wait on the fancy tricks once I feel I'm doing the basics well, which I think will be soon.
pat

Boy was this wrong. I've got so many saws working right now, I'm all confused. Rake is about 2 degrees and 0 as you get way back on the saw.
Pat

[Chris Griggs]

Boy was this wrong. I've got so many saws working right now, I'm all confused. Rake is about 2 degrees and 0 as you get way back on the saw.
Pat

Thanks Pat. That's a bit more aggressive then I've been filing mine (~5 degrees). I'm always curios what other folks are filing for rake angles, since I haven't quite developed a clear picture for myself of how big a difference a couple degrees of rake here and there make. I don't mess with slope yet either, I think I do a respectable job with standard filing but definitely want to develop more confidence with the basic before I start messing with extra angles.

[Pat Zabrocki]

Thanks Pat. That's a bit more aggressive then I've been filing mine (~5 degrees). I'm always curios what other folks are filing for rake angles, since I haven't quite developed a clear picture for myself of how big a difference a couple degrees of rake here and there make. I don't mess with slope yet either, I think I do a respectable job with standard filing but definitely want to develop more confidence with the basic before I start messing with extra angles.

I think you and I are in the same boat, experince wise. I'm still experimenting. I put some slope on a nice Disston Handy Hand saw just this morning as a test of that technique but I couldn't tell you degree. I kept experimenting until it cut like I wanted and man does it. I'll posting that one shortly.
cheers
pat

[Chris Griggs]

I think you and I are in the same boat, experince wise. I'm still experimenting. I put some slope on a nice Disston Handy Hand saw just this morning as a test of that technique but I couldn't tell you degree. I kept experimenting until it cut like I wanted and man does it. I'll posting that one shortly.
cheers
pat

There's an old article from the Norse Woodsmith (http://norsewoodsmith.com/content/sloped-gullets-finer-points-sharpening) in which he discusses sloped gullets. After some experimenting he concluded that it made for a slightly sharper xcut saw, but he didn't really feel it was worth the extra trouble in most cases. The argument for sloped gullets that makes the most sense to me is less about tooth sharpeness, and more about the idea that it creates bigger gullets and thus can hold more sawdust and cut faster. No idea how this actually plays out though. Maybe Daryl W or Archarya (spelling) will stop by and give us there input.

At the moment I'm more interested in experimenting with adding fleam to rip saws than adding slope. Not so much to create a "hybrid saw" (although that intrigues me), but more in how it impacts the cutting action when ripping. Since the nature of hand filing adds a touch a fleam anyway, it makes sense to me to deliberately had 1-5 degrees to a rip just for the sake of consistency. Some say, that deliberately adding this fleam makes for a smoother, but every bit as aggressive rip saw, and that's really what I want to find out for myself. I've done some experimenting with this already with some small 12 & 15 point saw, and it did seem to make for nice ripping, but I honestly couldn't say how much (if any) difference it made over just doing a good job filing pure rip.

I've got a really nice 16" 12ppi disston backsaw that I've already got pretty nicely filed, but that I'm thinking of doing a bit more experiment with. I need to add a touch more set to it anyway (took to much out) so after resetting perhaps I'll mess with the geometry a bit more when I go back over it with a file.

The other thing I want to mess with is seeing how steep I can push the rake. Gramercy DT and Rip Carcass saws are filed at 0 rake, based on some things I've read 0 rake shouldn't cut well in hardwood, but I've never heard anything but good things about Gramercys. I guess I'll just have to file one of my rips at 0 rake myself and see how they work. I'm not working crazy hard woods anyway, and a 0 rake angle might be really nice for moderately hard domestics.