Experience with Grizzley G0609 or the G9953ZX Jointers and G1033X planer?

[Douglas Snyder]

I have been working on upgrading my shop for sometime and I need a new jointer and planer. I was looking for at least a 12" or perferably a 16" jointer and would like the cutterhead to be spiral. While at Adam School I notice that they were having problems with the powermatic jointer often and I could not see paying a premium anymore for the powermatic. While I do have available space, I also looked at the Felder AD741 and the MiniMax Mini Max FS41 Elite. Both have special pricing right now (with the AD741 being more expensive). I do not have a production shop, so I do not think the changeover from planer to jointer is going to be an issue. I do like the wide beds and the easy changeout of the jointer blades. Unfortunately, they do not have spiral cutterheads. Since I have the room for a seperate jointer and planer, I decided to look at Grizzly.

Grizzley only has one option for a 16" inch jointer (G9952ZX) with spiral cutterhead and it is a monster weighing 1400 pounds. While I rather have a 16" inches jointer, the 12 inch jointer (G0609) seem a good alternative costing less than half what the G9952ZX. The other consideration is my shop is in my walkin basement. For the panner I am considering the G1033X planer. The cost of the 16: inch jointer and the 20" planer is more than either the Minimax or the Felder. No machine is going to easy moving from the garage to the shop - especially the 16" jointer. I still having a hard time deciding on one of the combo vs. Grizzley alternative, because of quality, moving issues and the cutterheads. Each have different tradeoffs. Sunday, I am visiting someone locally who has the Felder AD741, so I can see for myself about this machine. BTW, I am planning to visit Grizzly showroom next Saturday. Unfortunately, the G9952ZX is not in the showroom.

Does anyone here have experience with the G9952ZX or the G0609 jointers? How about the G1033X planer?
Any opinions on the Minimax or Felder machines?

Thanks in advance for you input?

Doug

[Van Huskey]

Although I do not know about the specific model you were looking at from Felder I do know they install a Byrd head in the Hammer series. They do it when it gets to the US. I don't know if Byrd offers heads for the models you are looking at or not. You may give Felder a call and inquire.

[Van Huskey]

I got a phone call and forgot to mention I have used the 609X or whatever the 609 with a segmented head is called. I used one in a friends shop just after he took delivery and set it up. It worked like a jointer is supposed to, the widest thing I jointed was in the 9-10" range. He said the setup was pretty close as delivered and it left excellent finish on the few knarly boards we ran through it. He mentioned it a few months ago and is still happy with it, he had owned it for mabe 6 months then, he is a hobbyist. I have no idea how it will hold up in the future. I will say it is the absolute best 12" spiral head jointer you can buy for 2,500 but then again AFAIK it is the ONLY one you can buy for that new.

I am still bouncing the idea around between the G0609X + G0453Z or a Hammer A3 31 with a Byrd head and table extensions. It may very well come down to the price spread when I decide to order.

[David Omatick]

Van,

I am in a very similar boat as you. I had a price quote on the Hammer A3-31 before the redesign straight cutters. I could not pull the trigger. I missed the recent Jet sale (gun shy again) on the JJP12 with straight cutter - I do have concerns about the motor overheating from some posts. I see the Dewalt 735 is on sale with extension kit. The cheapest way out - but some folks comment about blade life? I have used the DW733 and broke it on a wide cherry board - operator error - too much cut on the pass. But the Grizzly fore-mentioned machine set - 453Z 15" planer and 12" 609z jointer may be the ultimate combination for my needs/budget. Do you all think the Grizzly two piece set would provide better final product than the Hammer combo? Is the real Hammer advantage with straight head space saving?

[David Kumm]

You are not comparing apples to apples here. The Felder 700 series and the MM elite are much higher end than the Grizzly although the ultimate Grizz jointer is close. I love byrd heads but think you are going the wrong direction by getting cheaper built machines to compensate for the spiral head. A high quality planer with knives is a whole different animal than what most are used to in terms of finish quality. If you think a combo is the way to go get the Tersa head. Very few have regretted it although I have not used it. Hammer is a pretty big step down from the 700 so that is more comparable to the Asian Stuff. Dave

[keith micinski]

I Just ordered my new Grizzly 15 inch planer and am going to be getting an 8 inch jointer next. When it is all said and done I am going to be over the cost of the 634. I have always assumed that the combo machines were a compromise on both ends of the machinery and have wondered how well they hold up when you are flipping tables around to change machine operations for a few years. Especially the Grizzly brand more so then the European brands. Am I wrong in thinking this?

[keith micinski]

You are not comparing apples to apples here. The Felder 700 series and the MM elite are much higher end than the Grizzly although the ultimate Grizz jointer is close. I love byrd heads but think you are going the wrong direction by getting cheaper built machines to compensate for the spiral head. A high quality planer with knives is a whole different animal than what most are used to in terms of finish quality. If you think a combo is the way to go get the Tersa head. Very few have regretted it although I have not used it. Hammer is a pretty big step down from the 700 so that is more comparable to the Asian Stuff. Dave

ALSo with having no experience with the higher end euro machines I have always disagreed with this theory. I have always compared it to tires on a car. Crappy tires in the snow on my BMW drive like crap no matter how much electronics and build quality they throw at it. The best Snow tires money can buy make my Jetta with 200,000 on drive like a dream.

[David Kumm]

ALSo with having no experience with the higher end euro machines I have always disagreed with this theory. I have always compared it to tires on a car. Crappy tires in the snow on my BMW drive like crap no matter how much electronics and build quality they throw at it. The best Snow tires money can buy make my Jetta with 200,000 on drive like a dream.

Keith, I don't think Tersa heads are like crappy snowtires. Many cabinet shop guys prefer them to spiral. You can use different types of steel and carbide, change them out in minutes if nicked, and finish quality seems to be fine by those who use them. I think the comparison is more like Michilin vs Bridgestone performance speed rated tires. And your Jetta is a pretty good euro auto. More like a Hammer than a Grizzly. Dave

[Shiraz Balolia]

I have been working on upgrading my shop for sometime and I need a new jointer and planer. I was looking for at least a 12" or perferably a 16" jointer and would like the cutterhead to be spiral. While at Adam School I notice that they were having problems with the powermatic jointer often and I could not see paying a premium anymore for the powermatic. While I do have available space, I also looked at the Felder AD741 and the MiniMax Mini Max FS41 Elite. Both have special pricing right now (with the AD741 being more expensive). I do not have a production shop, so I do not think the changeover from planer to jointer is going to be an issue. I do like the wide beds and the easy changeout of the jointer blades. Unfortunately, they do not have spiral cutterheads. Since I have the room for a seperate jointer and planer, I decided to look at Grizzly.

Grizzley only has one option for a 16" inch jointer (G9952ZX) with spiral cutterhead and it is a monster weighing 1400 pounds. While I rather have a 16" inches jointer, the 12 inch jointer (G0609) seem a good alternative costing less than half what the G9952ZX. The other consideration is my shop is in my walkin basement. For the panner I am considering the G1033X planer. The cost of the 16: inch jointer and the 20" planer is more than either the Minimax or the Felder. No machine is going to easy moving from the garage to the shop - especially the 16" jointer. I still having a hard time deciding on one of the combo vs. Grizzley alternative, because of quality, moving issues and the cutterheads. Each have different tradeoffs. Sunday, I am visiting someone locally who has the Felder AD741, so I can see for myself about this machine. BTW, I am planning to visit Grizzly showroom next Saturday. Unfortunately, the G9952ZX is not in the showroom.

Does anyone here have experience with the G9952ZX or the G0609 jointers? How about the G1033X planer?
Any opinions on the Minimax or Felder machines?

Thanks in advance for you input?

Doug


Fender Custom Shop (Fender guitars), that makes custom high end guitars for many of the top artists in the world including Eric Clapton, has been using the 16" 3 Phase version of the jointer to work on heavily figured woods and other high quality work. They are very happy with it and have had zero problems in over half a dozen years they have been using it. I have the 12" version of that in my shop at home and it's a pleasure to use.

http://www.grizzly.com/catalog/2012/Main/9

[Douglas Snyder]

Thank you all for the great comments. I appreciate the reference to the G9953ZX with Guitar maker. Since the cost of the G9953ZX and G1033x is greater than the AD741 and I can not see it or get any references, I am nervous about shelling out $6,400 and trying to move it and finding out it not really worth it in the long run. Of all the requirements, the 16" jointer width is the most important. The AD741 is about $2,000 more than the Mini Max. I am trying to find someone who has it and would allow me to see it in operation. While I have a large shop, load bearing walls and steel pole does present some challenges.

If the Grizzley is G9953ZX jointer and G1033x planer is close to the Felder or Minimax in quality, I probably go with Grizzley. I realize you can get very good old used equipment for a reasonable price, but I want to concentrate on woodworking and not machine repair.

Anyone knows of someone with the G1033X planer or the Mini Max FS41 Elite? The Mini Max is about $2k less than the Felder. The G9953ZX and G1022x was about the same as the Felder before Jan 1st. Now it about $600 more.

With respect to the combo change between jointer and planer, I do not think the amount of use I will be giving it would be a problem. I understand the european equipment is well made and can last in a production shop.

Thank you all for your comments.

Doug

[keith micinski]

Keith, I don't think Tersa heads are like crappy snowtires. Many cabinet shop guys prefer them to spiral. You can use different types of steel and carbide, change them out in minutes if nicked, and finish quality seems to be fine by those who use them. I think the comparison is more like Michilin vs Bridgestone performance speed rated tires. And your Jetta is a pretty good euro auto. More like a Hammer than a Grizzly. Dave

Well it was when it was new anyway. After 11 years she has seen better days. I guess I was comparing the Grizzly with a spiral head as the JEtta to a Felder with any other head as the BMW. I do realize that the Felder is going to do a great job no matter what

[David Kumm]

Douglas, I would email Sam Blasco and talk to him about the MM. Sam is affiliated but in my experience he is objective and factual about the MM vs Felder. sblasco@scmgroup.com As far as the Grizzly machines the jointer is of a higher grade than the planer. The jointer compares well with used Euro or old Northfield type machines. The planer will be lower end than the MM or Felder in comparison. Ask about the second feed roller option and steel vs rubber covered rollers. Strength of fence and table hinging are important on a JP. You want the better euro units as they hold their settings better and a jointer with a table that gets out of whack will cause you to have a stroke. Dave

[Douglas Snyder]

Ask about the second feed roller option and steel vs rubber covered rollers. Strength of fence and table hinging are important on a JP. You want the better euro units as they hold their settings better and a jointer with a table that gets out of whack will cause you to have a stroke. Dave

Hello David,

Are you refering to the Grizzly G1033X "Ask about the second feed roller option and steel vs rubber covered rollers."

My guess is that the Felder is better than the Minimax. Would the Grizzly G9953ZX be close to the Felder? I realize the G1033X is not in the same level ar the G9953ZX, but I primarily want the G9953Zx or Felder for the table size. I do not imagine I will be planning so much that I would wear it out. Now if you tell me it will constantly go out of calibration and the output is less than desired, well that another thing. I do not need a work horse for a production list. Just want good result ...not quantity.

Thanks for your input.

Doug

[Van Huskey]

I never did include a bottom line but I think you will see the difference in quality and fit and finish between the Grizzly and Felder 700 series in about 2 seconds. If someone gave me the option of a Felder AD741 and my choice of a Grizzly jointer and a Grizzly planer I wouldn't blink before I picked the AD741, even if the Felder had straight knives. I am still betting Felder will add a Byrd head if you prefer and the upcharge for it on the Hammer line is less than buying it yourself at least when I was quoted. I know the N is much smaller here but maybe it is statistical, I would just say TRY to find anything bad someone has to say about a Felder or even a Hammer product on here. Off hand I remember reading about 1 initial issue with a A3 31 but thats it. Not that I care at all how you spend your money since "different strokes" and all but I bet you if you added a poll with the Grizzly pair vs the Felder AD741 "which would you pick" my guess is it would be lopsided, then again I could be wrong and it makes little difference because you don't have to please the masses, you only have to please you.

@ David O. I am struggling with the same issue but will only buy the Hammer with a Byrd if that is the way I proceed, with the Grizzly price increases the A3 31 with a Byrd head and bed extensions is not much more than the Grizzly combo, I would like to have two machines but can find a use for the extra space and buying the Hammer with a Byrd, I am spending a portion (maybe 12% or so) of my money on a US manufactured part and the rest goes to a country I have zero issues with buying from. Their is a palpable quality difference between them and I do appreciate it but have to balance that with the ease of two machine operation.

[David Kumm]

Douglas, the roller options are for the JP from MM or Felder. Both companies are direct competitors and I don't believe one is inherently superior to the other if you are comparing equivalent series. The ultimate jointer is going to serve you well due to large tables and never having to take it out of adjustment. For 7K I'd find a used jointer and put a byrd head on it but that is me. My Porter 16" cost me 2500 and Ive never even wished for a Byrd even though I like them a lot. The Byrd generally adds about 2K to retrofit. Unless you are planning to run tons of rough lumber you will be fine with the planer. It's not of the same quality but how much difference will that make? Planers need to be adjusted properly but once done it should be good to go. Dave

[Jim Andrew]

I have the Griz GO609 jointer w the Byrd cutterhead, only thing I don't like is the byrd only cuts 11 3/4", where if you buy the standard one from Griz, you get the full 12". And I had to install it myself. As for weight, lucky for me, my shop has a 9' ceiling, and I placed it in the shop with my skidsteer.

[Mikail Khan]

I've owned the 1033X planer for 4 years and the 609X jointer for 3. No problems with either with hobbyist use. I use mostly teak and west indian mahogany and I have not had to rotate the inserts on either machine as yet. The planer came with a byrd head and the jointer came with a grizzly head. Grizzly provided the best value for money for me at the time of purchase. I will consider upgrading to a 16" jointer in the future and will look at Grizzly again.

Mikail

[George Panagopoulos]

While combo machines are space efficient, just make sure the work process will not annoy you. Even though the change over between jointing and planing is not much time it does cause you to stop do the change over and in most cases adjust the dust collection hood. I found that this change in flow was annoying to me and I am returning to separates. Care must be taken to tension the jointer table the same amount every time otherwise the cast iron table does not return to the same levelness. Also, the planer is lower on a J/P and requires you to bend ver more and also the outfeed table support is less than typical 20" planers that are in the 45-55" range. I have the minimax 410 Elite and the machine is well built, but I'm not sure it is miles ahead of PM 209 or Grizzly 1033X type planers. Better, maybe. For a hobbyist not sure the difference in build would affect the results. In my case, separates will be a better fit to the way I want to work and also provide more upgrade flexibility without changing out both Jointer and planer.