On Building Bow Saws...

[Dustin Keys]

I want to build a bow saw, or two, or three...

I was interested in them before, but after reading Tage Frid's woodworking books I really have to try one. I've found several good building guides and a number of good examples of them in this forum, but I still have two basic questions:

1. What would is acceptable to build them with? In my area, the most plentiful choices are red oak, white oak, ash, and pecan. Are any of those a good choice?

2. What is the best thing to do for a blade? From what I've found, bandsaw blades are a bad idea as the set is wrong and they can't be effectively sharpened. I've heard mention of cutting down an old saw plate from a panel saw to use, but that seems to have a few problems too. To get the results that Frid describes, the saw plate has to be thinner than a standard panel saw. I haven't found anywhere in the US with the type of blades he describes (6-8 ppi rip with relatively thin steel and they appear to be about 1.5" tall).

I was intending to build an 18" bow saw with 8 ppi to start with, but that assumes I find a good source for the right blade.

D

[Derrell W Sloan]

Not an 18'' but Gramercy sells parts for a 12''

http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com//Merchant/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=toolshop&Product_Code=GT-BOW12.XX&Category_Code=CGT

[Mike Holbrook]

Dustin,

I made a post on this not too long ago that you might want to check out. I believe Chris Griggs had a recent post specifically on bow saw wood you may want to review too.

Blades is a big issue with these saws. Some of the commercially available blades have bad reputations. Most people seem to like the Japanese Turbo blades available for these saws, but they are not the kind you usually try to sharpen. Most people replace these blades instead of sharpening them. Gramercy sells a kit and saw parts. Tools for Working Wood (Gramercy) also makes their own blades which are excellent. The Gramercy bow saw & kit, however is a 12" turning saw, not what Tage used. If you are interested in larger saws I suggest you contact Glenn at Wood Joy Tools. Glenn makes several size saws, sells blades & some parts. You might even be able to convince him to make a kit for you.

[Chris Griggs]

Yep, I just posted this same question last week (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?178538-Wood-Species-for-Gramercy-Bow-Saw-Kit&highlight=) and got some great info. I'm building two gramercy kits/plans (http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com//Merchant/merchant.mvc?Screen=NEXT&StoreCode=toolstore&nextpage=/extra/bowsawplans.html), one for me and one for my friend. I finished the first frame this weekend. I used white oak, and think its going to be a great bowsaw. I split the wood from the board to ensure that the grain would run straight through the pieces.

I was actually surprised how simple the frame was to construct. If you can cut a half decent mortise and tenon you can build a bowsaw. Since you have a bandsaw the shaping should be easier for you. I cut mine out with a coping saw and shaped it with rasps which was a bit slow, but worked well.

[Bryan Schwerer]

There's a company that sells on ebay CME Handworks that sells versions of bow saws like I think you are talking about (quite reasonably actually, although I have never bought one) I believe they get the blades from Putsch, but may have to cut them to size.

[Zach Dillinger]

There's a company that sells on ebay CME Handworks that sells versions of bow saws like I think you are talking about (quite reasonably actually, although I have never bought one) I believe they get the blades from Putsch, but may have to cut them to size.

I can't vouch for their bowsaw, but I have a chair scraper made by CME that I purchased from Mr. Yoder at a MWTCA in LaPorte, IN a few years ago. Very nice tool at a very nice price. Plus, Chris and Mary are great people! They also make a treadle lathe which, if i recall correctly, retails for around $500... Can't beat that. No personal commercial interest, etc., just happy to spread the word about this great couple.

[Bryan Schwerer]

I can't vouch for their bowsaw, but I have a chair scraper made by CME that I purchased from Mr. Yoder at a MWTCA in LaPorte, IN a few years ago. Very nice tool at a very nice price. Plus, Chris and Mary are great people! They also make a treadle lathe which, if i recall correctly, retails for around $500... Can't beat that. No personal commercial interest, etc., just happy to spread the word about this great couple.

Thanks, good to know. I have looked at a few of their things but never pulled the trigger. Their stuff looks like a great value, I just like to build a lot of those things myself.

[Jerome Hanby]

I think it's Highland Woodworking that sells the turbo blades for bow saws. They are japaneese style blades and sharp as the devil. i bought the shorter one and am going to get the longer one and build the bow saws while I'm at it.

I bought Hickory to make my frames. Assuming that was a good choice, I'd think pecan would work well too. Seems like I've see them made with beech and White Oak too.

[john brenton]

The blades are cheap. The Putsch blades they sell at Highland Woodworking are great, and you could easily cut them down to size and drill new holes.

The turning saw blades are a little harder to manage. My turning saw is a little too large to manage the 1/8" 15 tpi bandsaw blade, but it cuts great. It's just unwieldy. I made the blade holders from some pieces of scrap metal I had laying around. It's pretty effective.

[Dustin Keys]

Thanks guys! The putsch blades from highland appear to be exactly what I was looking for. I hadn't seen them before.

Pecan should work from reading the thread linked to (I guess I missed that one). The lumber yard lists yew as something they have access to, so I may see what that would cost as well. I'm completely unfamiliar with yew, so I'll have to do some homework on it.

D

[Zach Dillinger]

Well, yew is the proper wood for an English longbow, so it might be proper for an English bow-saw... none of that Continental stuff, though.. :)

[Chris Griggs]

Well, yew is the proper wood for an English longbow, so it might be proper for an English bow-saw... none of that Continental stuff, though.. :)

Another creeker is sending me some yew for my bowsaw (the white oak one was for my buddy). I let you know how it works out.

[Dustin Keys]

Yep, I just posted this same question last week (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?178538-Wood-Species-for-Gramercy-Bow-Saw-Kit&highlight=) and got some great info. I'm building two gramercy kits/plans (http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com//Merchant/merchant.mvc?Screen=NEXT&StoreCode=toolstore&nextpage=/extra/bowsawplans.html), one for me and one for my friend. I finished the first frame this weekend. I used white oak, and think its going to be a great bowsaw. I split the wood from the board to ensure that the grain would run straight through the pieces.

I was actually surprised how simple the frame was to construct. If you can cut a half decent mortise and tenon you can build a bowsaw. Since you have a bandsaw the shaping should be easier for you. I cut mine out with a coping saw and shaped it with rasps which was a bit slow, but worked well.

White oak should be easy for me to find and work, so I may try that to start with. I'm a newb, so could you explain how and why you split the wood? If you ultimately shaped it with a coping saw, couldn't you have just cut it out to begin with and achieved the same thing?

Well, saying I have a bandsaw might not be entirely accurate. I have all of the parts that make up a bandsaw at this point lol. The saw was given to me. It was originally purchased by a family friend who later gave it to my dad when he upgraded to a larger saw. I remember it being in my dad's shop for a number of years and I used it quite a few times. It has been neglected for many years since then and was rusted up so bad that I had to completely disassemble it and clean it up. That process has gone fairly well, so I think it's going to work nicely once I get it back together. If all goes well, it will be in service by the time I start the bowsaw. If not, I do have a coping saw...

D

[Chris Griggs]

White oak should be easy for me to find and work, so I may try that to start with. I'm a newb, so could you explain how and why you split the wood? If you ultimately shaped it with a coping saw, couldn't you have just cut it out to begin with and achieved the same thing?


D

To split the wood I just took a dull chisel I use for glue cleanup and drove into the end grain of the board I had. Make sure you aim to split off a wider piece then you need, because if you're like me and haven't done much splitting its hard to control where the split actually goes.

For accurate layout I thought it best to start with pieces that were flat and square. First step was to cut and dimension the 3 frame parts to size. I then laid out and cut the tenons on the stretcher and the mortises on the vertical pieces and drill the holes for the pins. Technically since I chopped the mortises by hand I could have cut the shapes out first, but joinery is a heck of a lot easier when everything is straight and square.
218272

With the templates for the Gramercy saw glued on I then roughed out the shape using a coping saw. It was sorta a pain and left things pretty rough, but it worked.

218273

Final shaping of all parts was done with a Nicholson 49, a Iwasaki carving file, a basic hardware store half round mill file, and then 150 sandpaper.

218274 218275

Okay, technically it's not done, Archie still has to turn the handles and toggle, install the pins/blade and apply whatever finish he sees fit, but my part of the build it done. Then we'll do it allover again for my saw.

BTW if you haven't already, I recommend you check out this video (http://www.renaissancewoodworker.com/how-to-make-a-bowsaw/)Shannon Rogers did of his bowsaw build. It a really good video that I found quite helpful, although I found it kinda funny that he used his Gramercy bow saw to make his Gramercy bowsaw kit.

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

Just finished watching the new woodwright's shop episode on building a bow saw - with Willard Anderson, it's the same design (and fellow) as was recently shown in Popular Woodworking.

Last I checked, the video page was still messed up for the bowsaw episode on the WWS page, but here's the direct link to the movie :

http://podcast.unctv.org/wws/wws3102.mp4

One thing he points out during the construction is aligning the grain so that the weakest portion of the arms has the most straight grain - similar to how one generally tilts the grain direction when making a handsaw handle so the grain flows straight through the bridge between the handle and cheeks. His design has much more curved arms than the Gramercy design, (which I find much more attractive) which necessitates this.

FWIW, he made his saw out of beech, but he mentions in the articles that hickory, ash, maple or "other straight grained hardwood" would be suitable.

I'm curious as to the benefit of the tapered pins he espouses, in the PW article he mentions it helps to keep the saw from rotating around the handles as the wood wears - seems like a nice benefit, but I don't know if I can swing the $50 for a pair of pins from his website, when Gramercy's pins are seventeen or eighteen bucks. Not that I doubt the cost of machining small amounts of pins, I just need to be very thrifty right now.


EDIT: the other technique shown at the WWS episode, which I've used successfully for a lot of other similar curves, is to make small relief cuts with a backsaw, and use a chisel to pop off big hunks of wood to get close enough to rasp and file the shapes clean. Have to pay attention to grain direction though!

[Jerome Hanby]

I think the why on splitting the wood is to get base pieces with the grain all running up and down. Then you can cut square them up and end up with handles with the grain all nice and straight up and down the handle.

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

Chris - missed your post while I was making my rambling mess. Looking good!

[Bob Strawn]

From my research, pecan should be one of the best woods you can find for the bow saw's arms. For the stretcher, the best wood for the job, is, yellow pine. I am not joking. It's end to end compressive strength to weight ratio is the highest known.

http://battlering.com/woodworking/images/Frame%20Saws.jpg

Most of the ones I have made used ash for the arms and the stretchers, and I have no complaints. But pecan and yellow pine are the way to go. Try to find some closer grained yellow pine if you can. For stability, you don't want the core of the tree, you want fairly straight grain lines. Quarter sawn is ideal.

Bob

[Chris Griggs]

Chris - missed your post while I was making my rambling mess. Looking good!

Thanks Josh. I was really surprised how simple it turned out to be. For some reason I was thinking it would be a lot harder/complex. If I'd realized how simple building the frame would be I would have bought the kit a long time ago. I'm so sick of making do with a coping saw. I don't do a ton of curved work (yet) but when I do it sure will be nice to have a proper turning saw. I think you said you've been making do with a coping saw to - you should totally get the kit or at least the pins, its a two afternoon build at most (and I am a slow woodworker).


For the stretcher, the best wood for the job, is, yellow pine. I am not joking. It's end to end compressive strength to weight ratio is the highest known.


I believe it. Yellow pine is TOUGH stuff. Not hard, but really tough. Anyone whose every tried snapping a piece in half sometime will know what you mean. I briefly entertained the idea of using it just to see if it would work, but elected not spend the time on such an experiment. Good to know its a great pick for the stretcher. Nice saws by the way!

[Zach Dillinger]

You can make the stretcher out of just about anything. I made one, for a smaller turning saw, out of lightweight mahogany, since I had a scrap the right size. I have a few old bucksaws with a frames out of ash, but the stretcher is pine! I think that having a lightweight wood in the stretcher is a better choice than worrying about the end to end compression strength, since I'd be really shocked if you would put enough force into that piece to split it before damaging the blade holding mechanism, or snapping your tension cord. Choose something lightweight, and be happy in use, since it won't be too heavy or unwieldy to use easily.

[Dustin Keys]

Thanks for all the help in this thread! Chris you're explanation was really helpful, as were the pictures. I'm going to order a blade or two and give this a try.

The Roy Underhill link was amazing. I've never seen that show before. I've now watched almost two seasons of it over the last few nights. Thanks for that link!

D