Is Wenzloff still in business?

[Jared Withers]

I'm looking for some advise or insight. I made an order with wenzloff back on October 3rd. A month passed without a shipping notification, so I called and spoke with Mike and he explained that he had had some health problems and was just getting caught up. I said no biggie. He said my item was packed and would ship out the next day. After two more weeks of waiting I tried to call again but there was no answer. I have called and emailed weekly for the last month with no response. Meanwhile I've seen updates to his website such as the shipment of a batch of his model 77 saw and a server migration. Now the phone number and address has been removed from their website. Two weeks ago I moved to a new house, so now if he does get around to shipping my order it may not get to me. Repeated attempts to update my shipping address with Wenzloff have gone unanswered.

Does anyone have any insight into mike's situation or know a better means to contact him? I feel like I'm being ignored while other customers are being taken care of. I'm close to filing a fraud complaint with my credit card, but I've read so many positive things about Mike in the past I thought I would ask here first.

Feel free to PM me if you don't want to post publicly. Thanks,

Jared

[Jerome Hanby]

Shipping address changes can be a pain under the best of circumstances. I placed a new order with Meisel hardware, typed in the new address, got email confirmation with the new address and they still shipped it to the old house. They replaced the merchandise quickly with no hassle though and the delay got me out of having to get those toys ready by Christmas <g>.

[Joe A Faulkner]

Lee Valley is still listing their saws. I almost ordered the dovetail saw from them today to take advantage of the free shipping, but in a moment of self-control, talked myself out of it.

[Tony Joyce]

I just received an order last week from July, so patience is a must. He has a great product and very good prices. If you need something quickly you may have to go elsewhere, sorry.

Tony

[Jared Withers]

Tony -- was your credit card charged when you placed your order or when it shipped? The items I ordered were listed as in stock, so I was not expecting a delay due to fabrication.

Thanks.

[Mike Holbrook]

Jared,
I have been through some similar issues. I have most of my order after quite a long wait. I think you have to call Mike. I have talked to him quite a few times. Yes, he has had personal health issues. He also explained to me that he has had a very difficult to diagnose data base issue that has made it very difficult for him to follow up on some, not all of his orders. I know Mike was working on the data base issues and I also understood they were making some changes to their web site. It was my understanding that Mike's email backlog has become hopelessly deep. I think the problem is Mike is trying to fight a battle on multiple fronts while he fights with health issues. I think your best chance to resolve your issue is to keep calling until you get Mike via phone.

[Sean Richards]

I am sure you will get your order eventually. Mr Wenzloff is by all accounts a great guy. However I have not actually ordered anything from him as despite 2-3 emails and a couple of attempts via the web site contact form I have never received a reply.

[Chris Vandiver]

Try calling Mike between 8-9:30am PST and 4-5:00pm PST. That has worked in the past and may work now. Good luck.

[Jared Withers]

Thank you for the tips. Does anybody know his phone number? I did not make note of it and it is now removed from his website.

[Jim Belair]

Thank you for the tips. Does anybody know his phone number? I did not make note of it and it is now removed from his website.

For a phone number you might try contacting Lee Valley customer service even though you didn't buy the saw through them.

[Patrick McCarthy]

the shop was 503.359.5255

my order two years took a long time (the better part of a year) but was worth the wait. I would buy from him again.

Mike is a good guy. It has been my impression he has the best of intentions, but apparently has a lot of balls in the air that he is trying to juggle.

[Chris Griggs]

This message is currently posted on the front of his homepage - I'm guessing it just went up.

"Update to: Well, that went smooth...

OK, the site itself is functioning fine. The data was migrated just fine. However, the email has gotten a bit mucked up. In theory sometime today or early tomorrow we are suppose to be able to get to it and suspect there will be a boat load of email to sort through.
We have the notifications working (mostly) but email is still spotty.
Thank you for your patience."

[Jared Withers]

I tried calling again this morning and his voicemail box is full, so I guess I'm not the only one. I'll have to go to my CC company to get my money back. Thanks for your help.

[Bruno Frontera dela Cruz]

I wonder where the "and sons" are? It is Wenzloff and Sons after all...

This is the problem with sole proprietorship and I empathize with his situation, at the same time however he is still promoting his site as a business and should behave as such.

I have two saws from Mike and they are excellent, I also have two saws from Mark at Bad Axe which are also excellent. That said, it was a bit difficult (not a disaster though) to get the ball rolling and follow up on things with Wenzloff compared to Bad Axe and that was before any known health issues...mark has never gone more than 12 hours without responding to an email or phone call no matter how backed up things were.

[Ryan Griffey]

I waited three months for a half back saw kit and some parts. It was like pulling teeth. However, I was happy once they arrived.

I would have made another order but I'm not willing to deal with the issues at this time. I hope Mike gets things figured out. He is a great toolmaker.

[Chris Vandiver]

I waited three months for a half back saw kit and some parts. It was like pulling teeth. However, I was happy once they arrived.

I would have made another order but I'm not willing to deal with the issues at this time. I hope Mike gets things figured out. He is a great toolmaker.

I'm with you on that!

[Rick Fisher]

I got my Wenzloff Saw from Lee Valley.. It arrived just fine.. Nice saw..

Hint ! .. order it from Lee Valley .. :)

[Charlie Stanford]

You mentioned that you were considering filing a fraud complaint with your credit card provider. Sounds like your card was charged and I think that's a no-no for backordered merchandise - card can't be charged until product ships.

Can you clarify?

[Jared Withers]

Yes, my card was charged when I placed the order. The items were listed as in stock and I never got a backorder noice so I wasn't concerned at the time.

However, I'M HAPPY TO SAY, I got an email from Mike this morning! He said my order had been errantly marked as shipped in their system and that they have corrected the problem and shipped it out yesterday. Unfortunately he did not say whether they had received my requests to change my shipping address, so I'm not sure where they shipped it, and now I'm back to waiting for a response. Fingers crossed!

[David Weaver]

Who lives at your new address? Mike uses UPS last I can recall, so if you get a tracking number in your email (or even if not) you can call UPS customer service and maybe get some idea of where the order is going.

Hopefully, Mike can get back above water, I have some parts I'd like to order, and I've been pleased with the rest of what I've gotten from him. i don't think anyone else would work as cheaply as he does - especially on providing parts, but in general, too, I guess. I don't know of anyone else offering basic folded back saws as nicely made as his for less.

And perhaps because of that, he's going to be backed up all the time.

That said, my parts orders - all three of them - have always come quickly. I flat out can't make the orders at this point, because a lot of their parts appear to have gone into saws (split nuts, etc), and I have no idea where else I can get traditional split nuts like those.

I have talked to mike several times, and he is a stand up guy. If he's having troubles, I know it's for a legitimate reason, and not because he's trying to sit on customer money.

[Richard Francis]

He just sent me two saw nuts (which he offered for free), ordered and reminded two weeks ago. Not a big transaction but would have been annoying if it was dropped.
I think he is perpetually backed up and has been ill. Does not seem to have support and may not be super organized.
So send him a nice note and good wishes and quietly chivy him along.

[Jared Withers]

Happy to report that I did receive my order yesterday. Thanks creekers for your advise and here's hoping for a smooth recovery for Mike.

Jared

[Joel Goodman]

Just an update on Mike W. and stealth gloat! I ordered a tenon saw from Mike 2 weeks ago and received it today. So he's back in production mode.

[David Weaver]

I got parts last week, too. I was not correct, the parts came USPS and not UPS.

I'm glad to see he's back up, I don't know of anyone else offering parts and tooth punched plates for a similar price.

[Chris Griggs]

I just had an email conversation with him yesterday. My parts will be on the way in a week or so - would have gone out sooner but I made a slight change to my order. What type of saws you building this time Dave?

[David Weaver]

Just another dovetail saw. One with a lower plate and slightly finer teeth.

[Mike Holbrook]

Ohh Chris, what change would that be? Kidding, I think I know.

I was thinking about making a panel saw but Chris want let me order any more parts or kits until I finish current project ;-( .....and he's right too!

[Chris Griggs]

Ohh Chris, what change would that be? Kidding, I think I know.

I was thinking about making a panel saw but Chris want let me order any more parts or kits until I finish current project ;-( .....and he's right too!

Yes, you know. Switched the sash saw to from .025 to 020". Delayed it because he doesn't normally stock it in the depth I need and it will take about a week for him to get it in. And no, you are not allowed to order any kits or parts until I see finished pics of you Knight planes. I know its hard, but it's for your own good.

[Jim Koepke]

I know its hard, but it's for your own good.

Neander intervention?

Neander tough love... :D

Too many projects sometimes has me wasting time trying to decide which one to get started or finish.

Maybe a Neander wheel of work. Spin the wheel and where it stops is what you do.

jtk

[Jim Neeley]

Hey Jim...

Instead of a "Wheel of Work", how about a "Spool of Tools". You know, little pictures along the perimeter... spin the arrow... :)

[Bob Betker]

I got 2 saws yesterday from Mike that I had ordered about 2 weeks ago. My biggest problem is that he sells out of stock so fast when he notifies folks they saws are available I always miss the opportunity to place an order; been trying to get the Kenyon 26" pannel saw for over 2 years.

[Acharya Kumarswami]

I have an order in for some folded brass backs that I placed and paid for in early November. Another forum member has still not received an order he placed over a year back. Telephoning, I just get the answer phone message.

[Chris Griggs]

I have an order in for some folded brass backs that I placed and paid for in early November. Another forum member has still not received an order he placed over a year back. Telephoning, I just get the answer phone message.

I believe Mike had an issue with his database and may have temporarily lost some orders. I've emailed him twice in the couple weeks and both times heard back within a day. Try shooting him and email detailing your order information including order #. Perhaps he is still getting caught back up from his previous health issues and technical issues.

[Steve Clardy]

3-4 years ago I put in a special order for blades and some wood machining. It went 5-6 months, stuff got lost supposedly.
Then he found the stuff, mailed it out. Got lost supposedly, again. I lost my expensive wood that I had made handles out of for saws that I sent in.
Later he found a small saw I had sent in for sharpening and sent it out. I never got it.
This went on for over a year. I finally gave up and quite trying to contact them.

[Acharya Kumarswami]

Has anyone heard anything new on the Wenzloffs' status or received orders lately.
I am waiting on an order I placed early November. Thanks.

[Chris Griggs]

I've been wondering the same thing. Can't help but wonder if he's ill again. I ordered some parts in January and when I asked questions about placing the order he emailed me back right away. When I made a slight change to the order a couple weeks later he responded right away also. I emailed him a week ago to check in and haven't heard anything back. The site doesn't seem like its been updated since around the last time I heard from him, and my order is several weeks over Mikes estimate of when it would ship. This isn't a rant by the way - Mikes a great guy and I do hope hes not ill. If he is I certainly don't mind having to wait a little extra time for my parts. Although I must admit, I'm a little concerned I might be out $100, and would love to know if anyone has any info his status.

[David Weaver]

I don't have any info, but Chris, when you brought up parts, I ordered another set of parts for a dovetail saw and got them almost right away.

[Chris Griggs]

I don't have any info, but Chris, when you brought up parts, I ordered another set of parts for a dovetail saw and got them almost right away.

Thanks for the info Dave. Last I talked to him he said my order was just coming together, and that the change I made would delay things about a week - that was the first week of Feb. I'm guessing if he is ill or having other issues again it likely happened soon after. Perhaps hes just backed up at the moment - and my change delayed things more than he anticipated. That was my initial assumption but when I didn't get a an email response this time I started to worry (he's literally responded the same day in the past). Anyway I'll shoot him another email next week and give him a call if that doesn't work, and will post back if I find anything out.

BTW - hows your dovetail saw coming Dave?

[David Weaver]

Well, I just got some euro beech for a handle yesterday. Not that I needed more wood, but it came with a nice pattern traced on it, too.

Otherwise, the rest of the thing is still in the box. I need another dovetail saw like I need a hole in the head, I have used all of my hang spots on my saw till and will have nowhere to put it.

The key to getting my order quickly was probably because I waited until all of the items were in stock and bought only off-the-rack stuff with no order changes.

I really hope mike is OK, because there is nobody else who makes the full array of traditional parts as cheaply as he does. I don't know if there is anyone else who makes all of the parts, period.

[Chris Griggs]

Yeah, my order had some non standard specs so I knew it would take a bit longer than off the shelf, and I'm just now getting into the time frame where I'm starting to wonder where my stuff is. Really I wasn't even concerned until I didn't hear back from him this time. Yes I'd rather have the stuff sooner than later, but I've got little to no time at the bench lately anyway so I can handle waiting a few more weeks. I’d just like to get an update from him.

You're right there is just no way cheaper way to get a high quality new saw than Mikes parts. The cost comes down to like $60 a saw if you make the your handle from scratch (vs. ordering a roughed out blank) and if you file it yourself. I ordered parts for two, but already have 2-3 other saws in my head that I want to build. I really hope his business lasts for years to come. Post some pics when you get you DT saw build, would love to see the beech handle when its done.

[george wilson]

David,you didn't get the Euro beech from Wenzloff,though. You might be confusing people about availability of stuff from him.

[David Weaver]

Yeah, no euro beech from wenzloff. Nor the handle pattern.

[Chris Griggs]

It would be cool if someone else started selling rough kits. They wouldn't even need to be customizable the way Wenzloffs parts are, just rough versions of already existing saws for those of us who are both parsimonious and don't mind (and even enjoy) doing more of the work ourselves (although the customizable aspect is cool). Really, I don't imagine it would be worth it for most other companies though - my guess is that it works for Mike becasue he is already doing in house custom saws and has the rough parts around anyway.

[David Weaver]

I think most people wouldn't tolerate taking the orders and putting the parts together for the same price. I also am not aware of anyone who is offering folded brass backs, and it takes someone like Mike with the scale of brass he consumes to get brass for price where it makes any sense to do it.

I doubt I could go out and find the brass for the same price he offers a folded back.

[george wilson]

I recently made a brass case for an 18th.C. door lock on order from a conservator. After the case was delivered,I was not happy to see that a square foot of 1/8" 260 alloy brass would cost me about $100.00. I can't recall if that included the shipping.

Fortunately,being also a metal pig,I have a good supply of various brass I bought years ago from the junkyards,but was running out of the 1/8" sheet.

[Dave Anderson NH]

As a price reference point, my 1" diameter 360 brass for making hammer heads has more than doubled in price over the last 3 years and there seems to be no end in sight. Brass in all grades is about the worst of the metals for price increases in the last few years. Tool steels like 0-1 seem almost a bargain with doubling occuring only over the last 6 years.

[Chris Griggs]

I'd be more than happy with folded steel backs if someone would provide them. Its the folding that's a pain. If someone offered them I probably would have bought them over brass just because I like the look. I tried making a folded steel back from 90 degree steel (bent not formed to 90) by closing it in my vise, like Bob Roziaski did. It didn't come out to well and being the genius that I am I broke my vise in the process. DOH!

[Mike Holbrook]

I talked to Mike about ordering a blade or two and saw nuts to make saws from, back when I ordered a Half-Back saw kit. He cautioned me about making the holes in the blades. He said it was easy to bend the blade out of shape. He said they use some sort of punch. He also said something about discontinuing either the kits or the sale of individual pieces. I think he was trying to reduce his backlog. He was candid about his illness and it sounded serious to me. I think his wife helps him, but with him out sick so much and her trying to hold down another job...I think she may have been handling a good part of the shipping. He also had a problem with his customer data base and it sounded like he was trying to fix it himself. Anyway I decided to give him a little time to get caught up after being in the hospital. Then I started working auctions with saws....

[Chris Griggs]

I just was looking at his website and ran across this message under the folded brass backs section for buying parts.

"Folded saw backs are temporarily unavailable. The vendor we use has shut its doors unexpectedly."

I wonder when that happened. My order had two folded backs at part of it so this might explain the delay.

[David Weaver]

That's a downer. Anyone want to buy a sheet metal bender?

[David Weaver]

By the way, the holes in the plate - george mentioned before that you can do them handily with a masonry bit. I have been using HSS bits, but they are hard on them and there is a lot of heat. I've just sharpened my bits on the belt grinder each time I do a saw.

I would be into buying pitted saws on ebay and replating them (just to get the backs) if people didn't pay so darned much for them even when they're all pitted up. I paid $47 for a nurse saw that had a pretty bad plate, and replated it and cleaned it. That puts me out about $70 for the saw, which I consder a princely sum for a saw that isn't perfect.

[Jack Curtis]

Do you use a hammer drill with the masonry bit for this?

[David Weaver]

No, you're using a masonry bit just because they usually come with some kind of carbide in the tip (though I haven't tried it yet, I will in the near future).

The ends of my HSS drills (import, but they are HSS) just get mutiliated for cutting metal by the time I've drilled three holes. I'm pretty convinced that all the last hole does is get burnt by the bit until the temper is drawn out of the saw plate and then it punches through. They are ragged holes on the other side, and I always drill them with the handle in place, because in one of the instances, the ragged opposite side makes it so that I can't even get the handle off the saw (the ragged hole is gripping the saw cheek).

So carbide without paying for a solid carbide bit would be welcome.

[Matt Meiser]

I don't know anything about Wenzloff, but if threads keep surfacing asking if your company has gone out of business and customers keep posting about being worried they've lost hundreds of dollars....well you have a SERIOUS problem. I can't understand why people keep sending money to this guy, no matter how good his product might be?

[David Weaver]

Well, in terms of the parts, it's because nobody else offers a similar full roster of customizable parts for a remotely similar price. I think as far as the saws go, nobody else offers a folded back saw for a remotely similar price, either. Most of the rest of the sawmakers (aside from the semi-mass producers that use mostly machine done handles and slotted backs) have been headed up up and away on price.

[Joel Goodman]

Ordered a saw about 2 months ago from Mike -- got it a week and a half later. Seems like good service to me. Good to check on stock with him on the phone.

[Robert Leach]

Mike is a great guy and I sure hope he is doing better.

We had an email exchange about 6 weeks ago and he was on the mend. But I had place an order for bolts and blades about a month ago and haven't heard from him.